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God Led Him To Kidnap & Rape, Go Figure!
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:42:13
Sylph.Biginallways said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Sylph.Biginallways said: Hey Jet, do you know how much money it costs to house a prisoner on a yearly basis? If you did, you might change your mind about the death penalty. There's nothing barbaric about it. Death is a natural part of life. Rape is barbaric, torture is barbaric. If you're an agnostic, at least try to act like one. Did you know it's more expensive to perform the death penalty than it is to house them for life?
That's complete BS and an outrageous statement. Housing someone for 25+ years costs millions of dollars. Try reading.
Maybe you should.
Quote: The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. This process is needed in order to ensure that innocent men and woman are not executed for crimes they did not commit, and even with these protections the risk of executing an innocent person can not be completely eliminated.
If the death penalty was replaced with a sentence of Life Without the Possibility of Parole*, which costs millions less and also ensures that the public is protected while eliminating the risk of an irreversible mistake, the money saved could be spent on programs that actually improve the communities in which we live. The millions of dollars in savings could be spent on: education, roads, police officers and public safety programs, after-school programs, drug and alcohol treatment, child abuse prevention programs, mental health services, and services for crime victims and their families.
*More than 3500 men and woman have received this sentence in California since 1978 and NOT ONE has been released, except those few individuals who were able to prove their innocence.
California could save $1 billion over five years by replacing the death penalty with permanent imprisonment.
California taxpayers pay $90,000 more per death row prisoner each year than on prisoners in regular confinement.
Source: Link
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:43:02
Bismarck.Nevill said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Sylph.Biginallways said: Hey Jet, do you know how much money it costs to house a prisoner on a yearly basis? If you did, you might change your mind about the death penalty. There's nothing barbaric about it. Death is a natural part of life. Rape is barbaric, torture is barbaric. If you're an agnostic, at least try to act like one.
Did you know it's more expensive to perform the death penalty than it is to house them for life?
One round from a standard issue 45 is less than $2.
And what if you kill the innocent by accident?
 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2010-12-10 14:44:11
I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-12-10 14:44:58
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Sylph.Biginallways said: Hey Jet, do you know how much money it costs to house a prisoner on a yearly basis? If you did, you might change your mind about the death penalty. There's nothing barbaric about it. Death is a natural part of life. Rape is barbaric, torture is barbaric. If you're an agnostic, at least try to act like one. Did you know it's more expensive to perform the death penalty than it is to house them for life? Not to mention the costs incurred through the entire appeals process. If you have a problem with housing someone, then let's empty the jails of non-violent offenders.. If you're willing to pay (which it seems the majority of the public is content to do) to house someone for possession, then you should be willing to pay to house a cold blooded killer.
Lots of the non-violent offenders should stay in jail.
However, I don't think many of the people who have commited victimless crimes should stay.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:45:24
Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process.
The appeals process is a necessary part of the death penalty process. They are not interchangeable.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-10 14:46:05
Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process. That is still part of the death penalty, you can't just single out certain costs "as the costs"... You have to count the entire costs involved in that process..
 Lakshmi.JaerikAdministrator
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-12-10 14:46:11
A Texas Superior Court is currently debating whether or not to rule the death penalty unconstitutional in that state.
Know why?
There is pretty good evidence proof that over the last few decades, about 1 in 9 people executed and later proven innocent were in Texas. The state district attorneys aren't even contesting that statistic, but rather "standing mute" at the trial.
That's more than 10%. That's really bad.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-10 14:46:45
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Sylph.Biginallways said: Hey Jet, do you know how much money it costs to house a prisoner on a yearly basis? If you did, you might change your mind about the death penalty. There's nothing barbaric about it. Death is a natural part of life. Rape is barbaric, torture is barbaric. If you're an agnostic, at least try to act like one. Did you know it's more expensive to perform the death penalty than it is to house them for life? Not to mention the costs incurred through the entire appeals process. If you have a problem with housing someone, then let's empty the jails of non-violent offenders.. If you're willing to pay (which it seems the majority of the public is content to do) to house someone for possession, then you should be willing to pay to house a cold blooded killer.
Lots of the non-violent offenders should stay in jail.
However, I don't think many of the people who have commited victimless crimes should stay. Sorry, that's what I meant, non-violent victimless criminals.. Potheads and the like..
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:47:18
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: A Texas Superior Court is currently debating whether or not to rule the death penalty unconstitutional in that state.
Know why?
There is pretty good evidence proof that over the last few decades, about 1 in 9 people executed and later proven innocent were in Texas. The state district attorneys aren't even contesting that statistic, but rather "standing mute" at the trial.
That's more than 10%. That's really bad.
That's another reason I'm very much against the Death Penalty.
Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2010-12-10 14:47:59
Shiva.Flionheart said: Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process. The appeals process is a necessary part of the death penalty process. They are not interchangeable.
I really have no argument here. It is a necessary process, but I really think the entire issure revolves around closure for the family.
However, those are some pretty powerful numbers, although I do believe they are slightly inflated to tilt the scales a bit (no doubt figured up by an anti-death penalty lobbyist)
Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-12-10 14:48:00
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: A Texas Superior Court is currently debating whether or not to rule the death penalty unconstitutional in that state. Know why? There is pretty good evidence proof that over the last few decades, about 1 in 9 people executed and later proven innocent were in Texas. The state district attorneys aren't even contesting that statistic, but rather "standing mute" at the trial. That's more than 10%. That's really bad. Oh ***.
Imagine writing that apology letter.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-10 14:50:13
Bismarck.Nevill said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process. The appeals process is a necessary part of the death penalty process. They are not interchangeable.
I really have no argument here. It is a necessary process, but I really think the entire issure revolves around closure for the family.
However, those are some pretty powerful numbers, although I do believe they are slightly inflated to tilt the scales a bit (no doubt figured up by an anti-death penalty lobbyist) Of course these are just my feelings, but I would have been very happy to have the dude who killed my brother in prison for the rest of his natural life, in fact I would have preferred it over the death penalty.. However, neither happened, let's just say the judicial system really let me down.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:50:37
Bismarck.Nevill said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process. The appeals process is a necessary part of the death penalty process. They are not interchangeable.
I really have no argument here. It is a necessary process, but I really think the entire issure revolves around closure for the family.
However, those are some pretty powerful numbers, although I do believe they are slightly inflated to tilt the scales a bit (no doubt figured up by an anti-death penalty lobbyist)
Perhaps, but we can only use the data given, and in multiple sources the Death Penalty is more expensive. I can see the moral implications of supporting the death penalty, but those that state (and quite rudely) that it's cheaper than life imprisonment need to be shown fact.
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-12-10 14:51:35
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: that's a US wide fact? or you refer to texas That stat is for death row in Texas. But it's not limited to there: 261 convictions have been overturned in recent years based on further evidence.
Regardless of your ideology on the death penalty itself, you have to admit that an error rate so high changes the debate considerably.
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2010-12-10 14:51:43
The appeals process and the fact that the inmates on death row stay there sometimes for decades at a much higher housing cost is the reason for the high costs, not the execution itself. Yes, courts get it wrong all the time. It's not only capital cases that are privy to error. Go and play devil's advocate all you want. If you were the one that was beaten and raped, you'd feel differently.
 Phoenix.Mogue
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By Phoenix.Mogue 2010-12-10 14:51:55
Sylph.Biginallways said: The appeals process and the fact that the inmates on death row stay there sometimes for decades at a much higher housing cost is the reason for the high costs, not the execution itself. Yes, courts get it wrong all the time. It's not only capital cases that are privy to error. Go and play devil's advocate all you want. If you were the one that was beaten and raped, you'd feel differently.
***, why can't we just get rid of all those expensive trials and just execute all the coloreds, right? I mean they would have committed a crime some day anyway, right?
Also, go kill yourself and save some theoretical people somewhere some valuable money.
Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2010-12-10 14:52:15
Shiva.Flionheart said: Bismarck.Nevill said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process. The appeals process is a necessary part of the death penalty process. They are not interchangeable. I really have no argument here. It is a necessary process, but I really think the entire issure revolves around closure for the family. However, those are some pretty powerful numbers, although I do believe they are slightly inflated to tilt the scales a bit (no doubt figured up by an anti-death penalty lobbyist) Perhaps, but we can only use the data given, and in multiple sources the Death Penalty is more expensive. I can see the moral implications of supporting the death penalty, but those that state (and quite rudely) that it's cheaper than life imprisonment need to be shown fact.
Agreed, that's why I have no argument, because I have no numbers.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-12-10 14:53:07
There was a pretty awesome movie about the death penalty.
Plot Synopsis is that he was a proponent for abolishing the death penalty. And eventually he gets put on death row and gets a reporter to look into his recent history.
Of course, for the sake of theatrics, the reporter finds out about the fact that he was innocent right as it was too late to save him. But she can use that information to show that the state had just put an innocent man to death.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-10 14:53:17
Sylph.Biginallways said: The appeals process and the fact that the inmates on death row stay there sometimes for decades at a much higher housing cost is the reason for the high costs, not the execution itself. Yes, courts get it wrong all the time. It's not only capital cases that are privy to error. Go and play devil's advocate all you want. If you were the one that was beaten and raped, you'd feel differently.
You just assume everyone who has had *** up ***happen to them automatically wants the death of the perpetrator.
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Bismarck.Nevill said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bismarck.Nevill said: I know, but its not the death penalty that costs so much, its the appeals process. The appeals process is a necessary part of the death penalty process. They are not interchangeable.
I really have no argument here. It is a necessary process, but I really think the entire issure revolves around closure for the family.
However, those are some pretty powerful numbers, although I do believe they are slightly inflated to tilt the scales a bit (no doubt figured up by an anti-death penalty lobbyist) Of course these are just my feelings, but I would have been very happy to have the dude who killed my brother in prison for the rest of his natural life, in fact I would have preferred it over the death penalty.. However, neither happened, let's just say the judicial system really let me down.
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2010-12-10 14:56:07
Just because you give me a link to a website that is in fact anti-death penalty, doesn't mean i'm going to sit here and act like it's the gospel. It's not rude to have a differing opinion. Those statistics are for the state of California ONLY.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:56:26
Sylph.Biginallways said: The appeals process and the fact that the inmates on death row stay there sometimes for decades at a much higher housing cost is the reason for the high costs, not the execution itself.
Do you realise how much error there would be with the appeals process? Do you advocate killing innocents?
Sylph.Biginallways said:
Yes, courts get it wrong all the time.
Even with this expensive and lengthy appeals process.
Sylph.Biginallways said:
It's not only capital cases that are privy to error.
There's a difference between potentially killing an innocent man, and imprisoning an innocent man.
Sylph.Biginallways said:
Go and play devil's advocate all you want. If you were the one that was beaten and raped, you'd feel differently.
Assuming I've never been effected by this? Also this is completely moralistic, and nothing to do with your original point that it's more expensive to keep them alive.
Phoenix.Mogue
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By Phoenix.Mogue 2010-12-10 14:57:13
anecdotes > evidence yall
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 14:59:49
Sylph.Biginallways said: Just because you give me a link to a website that is in fact anti-death penalty, doesn't mean i'm going to sit here and act like it's the gospel. It's not rude to have a differing opinion. Those statistics are for the state of California ONLY.
Need more links? Have any sources of proof behind your statement?
Link
Quote:
A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)
In Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case.
(Urban Institute, The Cost of the Death Penalty in Maryland, March 2008)
In California the current sytem costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty.
(California Commission for the Fair Administration of Justice, July 2008)
Quote:
Trials in which the prosecutor is seeking a death sentence have two separate and distinct phases: conviction (guilt/innocence) and sentencing. Special motions and extra time for jury selection typically precede such trials.
More investigative costs are generally incurred in capital cases, particularly by the prosecution.
When death penalty trials result in a verdict less than death or are reversed, taxpayers first incur all the extra costs of capital pretrial and trial proceedings and must then also pay either for the cost of incarcerating the prisoner for life or the costs of a retrial (which often leads to a life sentence).
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2010-12-10 15:00:13
Shiva.Flionheart said: Sylph.Biginallways said: The appeals process and the fact that the inmates on death row stay there sometimes for decades at a much higher housing cost is the reason for the high costs, not the execution itself. Do you realise how much error there would be with the appeals process? Do you advocate killing innocents? Sylph.Biginallways said: Yes, courts get it wrong all the time. Even with this expensive and lengthy appeals process. Sylph.Biginallways said: It's not only capital cases that are privy to error. There's a difference between potentially killing an innocent man, and imprisoning an innocent man. Sylph.Biginallways said: Go and play devil's advocate all you want. If you were the one that was beaten and raped, you'd feel differently. Assuming I've never been effected by this? Also this is completely moralistic, and nothing to do with your original point that it's more expensive to keep them alive.
It IS in fact more expensive to keep the inmates on death row than to execute them. That is a FACT. I'm sorry if it's difficult for you to comprehend that.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-10 15:00:59
where in the hell did i claim to be agnostic? how in the hell does one act like an agnostic? putting somebody to death who has already been captured and taken out of the public is barbaric, and i'll agree with flion on the cost ting, it never fails to amaze me how many people don't realize this.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 15:01:35
Sylph.Biginallways said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Sylph.Biginallways said: The appeals process and the fact that the inmates on death row stay there sometimes for decades at a much higher housing cost is the reason for the high costs, not the execution itself. Do you realise how much error there would be with the appeals process? Do you advocate killing innocents? Sylph.Biginallways said: Yes, courts get it wrong all the time. Even with this expensive and lengthy appeals process. Sylph.Biginallways said: It's not only capital cases that are privy to error. There's a difference between potentially killing an innocent man, and imprisoning an innocent man. Sylph.Biginallways said: Go and play devil's advocate all you want. If you were the one that was beaten and raped, you'd feel differently. Assuming I've never been effected by this? Also this is completely moralistic, and nothing to do with your original point that it's more expensive to keep them alive.
It IS in fact more expensive to keep the inmates on death row than to execute them. That is a FACT. I'm sorry if it's difficult for you to comprehend that.
So you think that we should kill someone immediately with no appeals process?
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2010-12-10 15:01:51
Have fun with your forum freakouts. I just realized why I haven't posted up here in so long. Most people don't like it when someone disagrees with them over the internet. Ta ta.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-12-10 15:02:54
I like how his wife helped him capture the girl. It's bad enough for one person to be this messed up, but for his wife to have joined in on it all is really messed up. Guess they were a match made in heaven, or she's just extremely weak-minded and weak-willed.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-10 15:04:09
Sylph.Biginallways said: Have fun with your forum freakouts. I just realized why I haven't posted up here in so long. Most people don't like it when someone disagrees with them over the internet. Ta ta.
Oh on the contrary, I love when people disagree with me. I'm having a lot of fun discussing the death penalty now.
But if you feel you have no way to logically reply out of anecdotal evidence and hissy fits that's your prerogative.
edit: You were the one acting rude telling people to learn to read.
Source
Quote: The shackled 57-year-old Mitchell was present in the courtroom and sat singing throughout the reading of the verdict. He sang about Jesus Christ on the cross and held his hands in front of his chest as though he was praying.
Hey boys and girls, KFH here again with another mind numbing game of "WTF Was God Thinking?!"
The contestants today are Elizabeth Smart, a beautiful blond girl who likes butterflies, keg stands, and Justin Bieber. Also playing is Brian David Mitchell, the sadistic nutcase who claimed God told him to kidnap Smart, force her into a polygamous marriage, and rape her daily.
Is God living vicariously through others who claim He made them commit these disgusting acts of sexual deviance? If so, why doesn't he just fondle a hooker and make her have the best orgasm ever? He wouldn't have to pay for it. And why would he want to rape a 14-year-old girl anyway?
People, we need answers...
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