How Much Privacy Should You Expect In A Marriage?

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How Much Privacy Should You Expect In A Marriage?
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 Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2011-01-04 07:56:52
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Quote:
http://www.freep.com/article/20101226/NEWS03/12260530/Is-reading-wife-s-e-mail-a-crime?-Rochester-Hills-man-faces-trial
A Rochester Hills man faces up to 5 years in prison -- for reading his wife's e-mail.

Oakland County prosecutors, relying on a Michigan statute typically used to prosecute crimes such as identity theft or stealing trade secrets, have charged Leon Walker, 33, with a felony after he logged onto a laptop in the home he shared with his wife, Clara Walker.

Using her password, he accessed her Gmail account and learned she was having an affair. He now is facing a Feb. 7 trial. She filed for divorce, which was finalized earlier this month.

Legal experts say it's the first time the statute has been used in a domestic case, and it might be hard to prove

"It's going to be interesting because there are no clear legal answers here," said Frederick Lane, a Vermont attorney and nationally recognized expert who has published five books on electronic privacy. The fact that the two still were living together, and that Leon Walker had routine access to the computer, may help him, Lane said.

"I would guess there is enough gray area to suggest that she could not have an absolute expectation of privacy," he said.

About 45% of divorce cases involve some snooping -- and gathering -- of e-mail, Facebook and other online material, Lane said. But he added that those are generally used by the warring parties for civil reasons -- not for criminal prosecution.

"It is an indication of how deeply electronic communication is woven into our lives," Lane said.

Leon Walker was Clara Walker's third husband. Her e-mail showed she was having an affair with her second husband, a man who once had been arrested for beating her in front of her small son. Leon Walker, worried that the child might be exposed to domestic violence again, handed the e-mails over to the child's father, Clara Walker's first husband. He promptly filed an emergency motion to obtain custody.

Leon Walker, a computer technician with Oakland County, was arrested in February 2009, after Clara Walker learned he had provided the e-mails to her first husband.

"I was doing what I had to do," Leon Walker told the Free Press in a recent interview. He has been out on bond since shortly after his arrest. "We're talking about putting a child in danger."

Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper defended her decision to charge Leon Walker.

"The guy is a hacker," Cooper said in a voice mail response to the Free Press last week. "It was password protected, he had wonderful skills, and was highly trained. Then he downloaded them and used them in a very contentious way."

Walker's defense attorney, Leon Weiss, said Cooper is "dead wrong" on the law.

"I've been a defense attorney for 34 years and I've never seen anything like this," he said. "This is a hacking statute, the kind of statute they use if you try to break into a government system or private business for some nefarious purpose. It's to protect against identity fraud, to keep somebody from taking somebody's intellectual property or trade secrets.

"I have to ask: 'Don't the prosecutors have more important things to do with their time?' "

Clara Walker, through her attorney, Michael McCulloch, declined an interview with the Free Press.

In the preliminary exam, Clara Walker testified that although Leon Walker had purchased the laptop for her, it was hers alone and she kept the password a secret.

Leon Walker told the Free Press he routinely used the computer and that she kept all of her passwords in a small book next to the computer.

"It was a family computer," he said. "I did work on it all the time."

A jury ultimately will decide.

Several area defense attorneys were astonished by the filing of the criminal charges.

"What's the difference between that and parents who get on their kids' Facebook accounts?" attorney Deborah McKelvy said. "You're going to have to start prosecuting a whole bunch of parents."
 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2011-01-04 08:01:59
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The lesson here... If you get into your wife/GFs computer and learn she is having an affair, keep lurking and arrange to walk in on them instead of going straight from there.
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-01-04 08:03:44
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Up to 5 years? Are you kidding me? He should get a fine or something, not prison.
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 Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2011-01-04 08:05:30
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why do people do the "marriage" even today?
total archaic thing that needs to be changed asap.

is it because of the old fashioned idea of women that she will have her dream-marriage?
or is it the guys that believe they can hold a women to their side all the time.
whatever it is: marriage is useless in these times.

to topic:
i guess it's an example they want to state here.
but on another side: guys breaks into mail account. Women goes to police and wants a trial. that *** really didn't like her husband anymore.

wether it's women or men snooking in privat stuff like that: idiots get what they deserve.
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 Leviathan.Catnipthief
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By Leviathan.Catnipthief 2011-01-04 08:06:04
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Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.


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 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2011-01-04 08:09:17
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Ragnarok.Corres said:
why do people do the "marriage" even today? total archaic thing that needs to be changed asap. is it because of the old fashioned idea of women that she will have her dream-marriage? or is it the guys that believe they can hold a women to their side all the time. whatever it is: marriage is useless in these times. to topic: i guess it's an example they want to state here. but on another side: guys breaks into mail account. Women goes to police and wants a trial. that *** really didn't like her husband anymore. wether it's women or men snooking in privat stuff like that: idiots get what they deserve.

Depending on the country there is alot of legal stuff that comes with marrage... for example I know there was a case way way back were a guy was on life support and had a extreamly bad relationship with the his family and they said to just pull the plug, his partner however said no but since they weren't marryed the family was the one with the choice since they are next of kin... idk how that episode tuned out in the end but just an example...

Obviusly in these twos case marrage wasn't the best idea.
 Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2011-01-04 08:09:33
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Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.


... here we go again. screw those role ***-standard.

marriage is pure evil!!!!!!

Asura.Ina said:
Depending on the country there is alot of legal stuff that comes with marrage... for example I know there was a case way way back were a guy was on life support and had a extreamly bad relationship with the his family and they said to just pull the plug, his partner however said no but since they weren't marryed the family was the one with the choice since they are next of kin... idk how that episode tuned out in the end but just an example...

Obviusly in these twos case marrage wasn't the best idea.
you get a lot of taxes lowered in our country when you marry. but this isnt going to pay out later on. Less and less marriages kinda shows why it is a useless tradition.
 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2011-01-04 08:10:47
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Ragnarok.Corres said:
Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.
... here we go again. screw those role ***-standard. marriage is pure evil!!!!!!

Yeh if the genders were reversed in this I'm sure the entierty of this would be reversed as well.
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 Leviathan.Catnipthief
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By Leviathan.Catnipthief 2011-01-04 08:11:09
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Ragnarok.Corres said:
Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.


... here we go again. screw those role ***-standard.

marriage is pure evil!!!!!!


Just sayin... when it comes to marriage ***, no matter what ... the man is always in the wrong and the woman is always right, even if it's blatantly obvious that she was the one doing the wrong.

Seen it plenty of times.
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 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2011-01-04 08:13:29
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Its not only in marriage... Drivers insureance men get higher rates just for being a man as an example...

I'm all for gender equality but I wana see some real equality not equal on the good stuff but still getting treated better on everything else.
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 Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2011-01-04 08:14:49
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Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Ragnarok.Corres said:
Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.


... here we go again. screw those role ***-standard.

marriage is pure evil!!!!!!


Just sayin... when it comes to marriage ***, no matter what ... the man is always in the wrong and the woman is always right, even if it's blatantly obvious that she was the one doing the wrong.

Seen it plenty of times.
i see that your way but i am kinda sick of stuff like this. not your comparisson but more the fact: it's always the same.

remember that incident where a women found her husband in bed with another, so she cut off his *** and threw it in the frontyard? it was in america i believe. this was really sick: half of the peope were rooting for the women "you go girl" and the other half: you can think what they said.
there is never seen any more sheer stupidty of man than in war and in relationships.
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 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-04 08:14:51
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Lol it's always the ones hiding something like that that get all bent when you look. "Omg I hate guys that do that!!!" Which I've found out to be key words for "I hate when the guy I was playing finds out I'm really a ***"
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-01-04 08:15:10
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Ragnarok.Corres said:
why do people do the "marriage" even today?
total archaic thing that needs to be changed asap.

is it because of the old fashioned idea of women that she will have her dream-marriage?
or is it the guys that believe they can hold a women to their side all the time.
whatever it is: marriage is useless in these times.

to topic:
i guess it's an example they want to state here.
but on another side: guys breaks into mail account. Women goes to police and wants a trial. that *** really didn't like her husband anymore.

wether it's women or men snooking in privat stuff like that: idiots get what they deserve.

I agree with the marriage part (because I'm being forced to go to my sister's wedding lol)
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 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2011-01-04 08:17:22
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Saw that story. I'd be upset if my man/woman was reading my emails without my permission. Mind, I don't have affairs or cheat on the one I care about, I just end it, so this issue probably wouldn't come up.

Lesson to be learned here = Don't be an idiot, set a trap with that kind of info. Walk-ins are never welcome, but they're very informative, and sometimes a threesome happens as a result!

Edit: As for how much privacy I expect....I expect the expected. Stuff that's addressed to both of us in snail mail is readable, stuff for me I'd prefer if you didn't, unless it was important.

Really, just use your noggin. If you have to wonder if I'm going to get pissed if you're violating my privacy/personal space, you might want to ask first. I provide the same level of respect in return.
 Titan.Wombat
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By Titan.Wombat 2011-01-04 08:18:15
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Ragnarok.Corres said:
marriage is pure evil!!!!!!

Only if you're doing it wrong.

Ragnarok.Corres said:
why do people do the "marriage" even today?
total archaic thing that needs to be changed asap.

Changed to what?
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 Bahamut.Lolserj
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By Bahamut.Lolserj 2011-01-04 08:18:49
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I wonder if he thought she was having an affair before he did it

If he just went through her emails and stuff for no reason that's just weird

but if he knew she was cheating i don't blame him
 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2011-01-04 08:21:20
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Bahamut.Lolserj said:
I wonder if he thought she was having an affair before he did it If he just went through her emails and stuff for no reason that's just weird but if he knew she was cheating i don't blame him

Technically he DIDN'T know. He suspected, but didn't know. That's why he read the email.
 Bahamut.Lolserj
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By Bahamut.Lolserj 2011-01-04 08:23:39
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Ramuh.Kailana said:
Bahamut.Lolserj said:
I wonder if he thought she was having an affair before he did it If he just went through her emails and stuff for no reason that's just weird but if he knew she was cheating i don't blame him

Technically he DIDN'T know. He suspected, but didn't know. That's why he read the email.

if he had a reasonable suspicion i don't see what the big deal is

i mean if all the time he says "Well i think she's cheating lol" then he's a complete douche and deserves prison (this is if he does it without seriously suspecting)
 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2011-01-04 08:26:37
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Bahamut.Lolserj said:
Ramuh.Kailana said:
Bahamut.Lolserj said:
I wonder if he thought she was having an affair before he did it If he just went through her emails and stuff for no reason that's just weird but if he knew she was cheating i don't blame him
Technically he DIDN'T know. He suspected, but didn't know. That's why he read the email.
if he had a reasonable suspicion i don't see what the big deal is i mean if all the time he says "Well i think she's cheating lol" then he's a complete douche and deserves prison (this is if he does it without seriously suspecting)

That's the thing, we're not clear if he was an overly suspicious douche who drove her to cheating, or what happened here, but you'd best have some damn good evidence if you're going to read my emails. If you don't, or you turned out to be wrong on said suspicion, I'd be WILD.

An easy resolution would be to make a family email account, but you're still likely to have private ones. At least if it's in the couple/family account you've got no excuse if you get busted. xD
 Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2011-01-04 08:27:30
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question is: at what part of your suspicion you start breaking into the email account of your partner?
when you just suspect it, or if you are sure that he/she does have an affair?
 Bahamut.Lolserj
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By Bahamut.Lolserj 2011-01-04 08:27:37
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i wonder how he got her password
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-01-04 08:28:28
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Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.


^ This

Also what about personal bank accounts? Not joint ones, but individual ones.

Like if a husband finds the wife has one, he's not allowed to get mad nor question it, yet if reversed total double standard.

Marriage is definitely obsolete. It went out the door the day women killed chivalry.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-01-04 08:30:01
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Bahamut.Lolserj said:
i wonder how he got her password
Key logger maybe or just guessed it since they were married.
 Bahamut.Lolserj
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By Bahamut.Lolserj 2011-01-04 08:31:19
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Bahamut.Lolserj said:
i wonder how he got her password
Key logger maybe or just guessed it since they were married.

i'd find it funnier if he just asked her
 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2011-01-04 08:31:22
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.
^ This Also what about personal bank accounts? Not joint ones, but individual ones. Like if a husband finds the wife has one, he's not allowed to get mad nor question it, yet if reversed total double standard. Marriage is definitely obsolete. It went out the door the day women killed chivalry.

Men killed chivalry by being douches. Also, for giving us rights enough to put them in jail for being douches. XD
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 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2011-01-04 08:33:01
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Ridiculous.. She got caught and has actually managed to turn it around on him so that he's in the wrong.. If they had already been split up, it would have been one thing to go into her email.... But they're in the same damn house, still married and still both even using the same computer.

I hope this dude sues her for attorney/court costs and in the divorce isn't forced to give her half of everything (since she was committing adultery)
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-01-04 08:33:41
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Bahamut.Lolserj said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Bahamut.Lolserj said:
i wonder how he got her password
Key logger maybe or just guessed it since they were married.

i'd find it funnier if he just asked her
lol
 Bahamut.Lolserj
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By Bahamut.Lolserj 2011-01-04 08:34:39
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if i punched a feminist in the face could they complain about a man hitting a woman?
 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2011-01-04 08:34:49
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Ridiculous.. She got caught and has actually managed to turn it around on him so that he's in the wrong.. If they had already been split up, it would have been one thing to go into her email.... But they're in the same damn house, still married and still both even using the same computer.

What's ridiculous about privacy? Stay the **** out of my emails. :P

The first part definitely has merit though. He was just an idiot about the confrontation, unfortunately.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-01-04 08:35:07
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Ramuh.Kailana said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Leviathan.Catnipthief said:
Betcha if the woman did it and found out her husband was cheating she would be deemed a "warrior" and how she should feel liberated.
^ This Also what about personal bank accounts? Not joint ones, but individual ones. Like if a husband finds the wife has one, he's not allowed to get mad nor question it, yet if reversed total double standard. Marriage is definitely obsolete. It went out the door the day women killed chivalry.

Men killed chivalry by being douches. Also, for giving us rights enough to put them in jail for being douches. XD
Women killed it when they wanted total equality yet still expected to be treated special. Doesn't work that way.
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