COR Vs BRD In Meripo.

I'd have to see the exp on it, though I don't doubt it's possible w/ that set up, 1 rdm is going to be infinitely more valuable than a 4th drg.

never had any doubt on this. My reason for saying lack of whm or rdm wasn't that a dnc is incapable of main healing. (I prefer to have both a whm(or rdm) in a pt and a dnc)

I am going to agree with Frobeus, I have been in merit parties as brd+cor where the parties have killed faster then birds repopped and we had to resort to wivre(bottom floor had a party and i had pulled all accessible colibri already, which can be bad if they spam demoralizing roar and nerf the DDs attack. Taking away the cors DD and making him pull, wont slow down the colibri kills to much, just enough so we didnt have to kill wivre and risk a bad spam of roar slowing us down.

That being said. If you are pulling in a normal party, elegy, w/e, mob casts on you, who cares you have shadows or, once per hour it hits you, you get erased from the mage.

In the super burns? DD are oftentimes right on my heels for next mob because it dies in seconds, less then 10, you get a well geared DD doing 60% of the mobs HP in 1 ws.. and all 3 can do that? and 2 ws right at start? mob is dead. And i oftentimes have let songs run out because pull/chain is way more important then a song. However. Cor JAs are instant. and if they swap gear during use, no freeze time. And yes, I have manteel/ring/earring/boots. Even all that isnt enough to sing fast enough if DD are killing mobs in less then 5 seconds...back to the point, if the DD kill the mobs in seconds, they are oftentimes engaging mob as my elegy lands, and sometimes they get hit with it and not every healer is on the ball w/ erases, or even hastes. But yes, pulling w/ chakram or a resisted song=win, try casting elegy in auster's and very little chr/skill+, get resists more often

Another. Brd/Whm has more access to hMP/MP gear then Cor. If it wasnt for haste. Brd/whmx2 w/ a cor pulling, I could mainheal as bard, but someone better have an outside mule to haste ppl.

That being all said, in a normal 10k~20k /hr party, dun matter who pulls, I prefer to pull and let cor DD, but in the instances where you get some really leet DD, I have a hard time keeping songs up and would rather have the Cor pull since their JAs are instant.

BRD and COR are two of the lesser played jobs so honestly I'd say just grab which ever one you can get and be happy. I'm sure someone has already mentioned the obvious downside to COR is the need for bullets and cards though.


Personally, I haven't pulled very much as COR but I've put many many hours into pulling birds as BRD though. As well as playing SCH and watching other CORs and BRDs pull birds and in COR vs BRD I'd have to say it really comes down to player skill rather then job differences.

I'm sure you could make an argument that looks good on paper, or come up with endless hypothetical situations to make your e-peen look big but if someone sucks (and a lot of people do) at their job then not even the best gear in the game is going to make a difference.

It seems most times that I am asked to pull on Cor is when I am the main party buffer because they were unable to find a brd. In this case I have them Roam (bird camp only) while the War vokes the next mob and I sleep all links. I am sorry but why do the DD get to be lazy and stand there while someone brings the mob to them. I am sure I will catch some grief for this but when no Brd available yes grab a Cor, SCH, DD, DD, DD , and Voker and go to it as a roving group. Even if some members are hesitant at the begining they will quickly see that the exp will be good. Having a Sch on birds is heavenly, stoneskin/phalanx aga allows the DD to go all out while having a nice cushion on damage taken. Cor was meant to buff the party and deal damage not to try and imitate a Brd. And as for Cor being a true DD I can eaisly keep the chain up when everyone blew their tp on the last mob. With this setup it is very easy to keep the chain goin on either camp and makes for a very fluid party.

"In this case I have them Roam (bird camp only) while the War vokes the next mob and I sleep all links."
I don't mind getting mobs that are right next to me, but if there's something that isn't already in claiming distance, then you lose exp/hr having to run to it, which is why there's a puller for a reason. Pull/Roam Hybrid > pulling or roaming alone

"I am sure I will catch some grief for this but when no Brd available yes grab a Cor, SCH, DD, DD, DD , and Voker and go to it as a roving group."
Why specifically SCH? Just curious

"Even if some members are hesitant at the begining they will quickly see that the exp will be good."
Depends on what your standard of "good" is. I can't see a set up like the one posted above being above average.

"Having a Sch on birds is heavenly, stoneskin/phalanx aga allows the DD to go all out while having a nice cushion on damage taken."
DDs fulltiming seigan third eye w/ a rdm will produce more dmg than "going all out" with a sch. (Though I would hope nobody has to suffer through either situation, because they're both rather slow exp)

"Cor was meant to buff the party and deal damage not to try and imitate a Brd."
What a job was meant for is irrelevant. Shadows were never meant to be used in such a fashion we use them today. Mnk was never designed with tanking chariots in mind. A lot of the game's innovations that work so well were not designed to be that way. That out of the way, I personally wouldn't party without a bard, so you'd always get to DD freely with me, because the brd will be pulling.

"And as for Cor being a true DD I can eaisly keep the chain up when everyone blew their tp on the last mob. With this setup it is very easy to keep the chain goin on either camp and makes for a very fluid party."
I've never personally cared for the "we can keep chain" argument. Any party should be able to keep chain and just because you are keeping chain, doesn't mean your party is doing good. You can fully keep a chain at 15-18k/hr and you can keep a chain at 30k/hr. This is obviously a huge gap in exp/hr and you can perfectly keep chain in both situations. It's not about how large your chain is, it's about how fast you can kill the mob.

As a 75 COR in merit I think of it like this. I don't have a BRD I'll put on a Peacemaker and pull like a ***, keep buffs up, and shoot when I can (though of course not as much DD with a peacemaker on) until I need to pull next. If I have a BRD I usually do expect them to pull, unless they aren't doing it fast enough then I'll take over. To be honest yes it's exp/hr and yadda yadda, but thing is if you have a ***puller then either kick the crap puller or make someone else pull, that's up to you. I mainly play COR/RNG for fun and DD when I can, but if I need to pull I can do that as well with a Peacemaker.

My main point if you don't want to pull as COR in a PT you can either accept the invite and pull (if asked to) or not accept the invite plain and simple.

Damn you forum wordsmiths. My post was more directed at giving the original poster a option when confronted with a party that says "hey Mr Cor you are the puller now dance just like a Brd would". I strongly agree that the hybrid roaming/pull method is the winner in that instance with the Cor pulling the mob that is out of reach while keeping the group moving through the zone. By no means is this setup going to be an "elite" 30k and hr meripo, but it will get a respectable exp /hr with no downtime. Not only that but you do not end up with a burnt out brd who's head is now spinning cause they been running in circles for hours straight singing, pulling, casting, etc while the DD sit there sayin "faster faster, dance brd dance".

It may be instant, but they still have to double up at least once to make the buff worthwhile almost every time. In the end, it's not going to be faster, much less instant.

cor/whm is fail i hate lookin at cors who sub it i'm just like wtf cor /rdm /blm /sam /nin /war and for fun /drk whenever i have to pull in merit pts its just irritating when some dumbass links 4 birds and i can only sleep 2 then idiots who dont know ***about cor start screamin their *** off saying sleep them sleep them-.- i am not a brd i cannot sleep 10 times in 1 minute

Bottom line is COR's just a cooler job. There's no need to argue a fact like that, you wouldn't argue that 2+2 isn't 4!

COR > BRD, /thread.

(PS. I'm biased!)

Okay so I'll drop my 2 cents because I have both Cor and Brd lvled to 75 with brd hitting 75 before cor was even quested. It was because of brd that i started cor and why I perfer to meripo on cor. Both have pretty good meripo gear BRD: Goliard body, b.haidates, plenty of wind skill and singing skill gear with some relic slipped in. Cor: Joyeuse, Martial Gun, Trailer's Kukri, relic legs and hopefully relic body tonight. Now my point is that brd was so retardedly boring to do and in a fast passed meripo with cor dding you have to pull hard and fast and well. It can be draining. I perfer to meripo as cor but i refuse to pull because brd is just so much more capable at it. Also cor can be a great dd as some have mentioned before, I almost always /nin because both joyeuse and trailer's are piercing dmg as well as the big ws cor can do with martial gun: Slug Shot and my epic detonator (1300) easy. Brd is restricted to only pulling but its damn good at it. You know we can argue one over the other but heres my real statment:

If only 1 spot open and very dd heavy get a brd to pull with /nin no excuses.

If 2 spots open and have a very capable rdm get a cor/nin and brd/nin

If 2 spots open but have a whm/blm (no /sch, yes it happens) get brd brd with one subbing /whm. To decide who is the brd/whm examine each brds gear for pulling, the one with the better pulling gear is /nin.

These all apply to most meripo camps i.e. mammool ja and nyzul bird camp. You can see upwards of 3-4-5 merits an hour depending on how epic. My ideal setup would be:

Rdm, ares war, homam/zahak drg, sam, sha'ir brd/nin pulling and me on my cor cus im pretty good ^^

I dunno title of this thread and tenor of the discussion put me in mind of "Shark vs. Squid!" Really when it boils down to it, both are deadly good... so be greatful you have one, the other or both in pt.

[note: Poster has never ever, nor will ever unlock bard. All you princess bards out there have me thoroughly convinced that I'd kill myself soon after playing. Corsair though different story... I <3 pirates and look forward to playing one because now that I can make my own ammo. :D]

Usually, people call you HQ when they're taking advantage of you.

Asking a Cor to /whm is an insult... you have no idea how boring it is to be /whm in meritpo.. especially with fully merited Winning Streak... that's 6min 30sec of doing nothing and/or not needing to cure because the Mage's mp is full.. help sleep a link or 2... oh so exciting...

i rather /nin (to keep from dying due to slug shot) or /war in meritpo as cor... im sorry but if the mage needs help keeping the DD alive with Ballad and MP rolls he needs to find a 10k per hr pt.. or maybe a level sync pt is more his speed..

Asura Merit pts are funny, most want the cor to be /whm... others with a brd in pt but lazy as hell would rather have the cor pull while the brd sits back and sings 4 songs then afk... i Refuse to pull in BRD meritpo.. most BRDs have become Lazy and use the Excuse "oh i wont be able to land Sleep on <mob name> let the cor pull" or "My Wind isnt capped" or then even better excuse because its totally impossible! " i don't have manteel or BRD ring to pull" WTF?


Not saying a cor shouldn't help with pulling. that's fine indeed but to main pull? no thxx ill sleep adds or pull if i see the brd is trying to catch up with songs to keep the chain. But Full time Pulling no thxx. Even with fully merited QD you wont pull as fast as a BRD.. and im not buying a peacemaker.. it doesn't Tickle my DMG fantasy sorry :/

I'd rather have the BRD pull. Why? It's taking the COR's abilities to "DD".
BRD doesn't really have much in the DD department, their only role in the pt is to do the following:
Buffs ~> Pull/Sleep ~> Buffs ~> Pull/Sleep (Hell, sometimes sleep might not be necessary when they're ripping them apart in seconds >.>;)

Meanwhile, a good COR would need to buff the pt, and it last a while compared to the BRD's song. Gather TP however they see fit (lolmelee or /ra) then BANG!
That contributes to the exp/hr in a sense they're at least lending a hand in killing the foe as quick as possible to make the BRD's life miserable happy.
(or they could help out with the resists in Lullaby's with their own version of sleep.)

And I agree, /WHM? Gtfo, I'd say the same to the BRDs. Healing? Sure, they can help out once in a while. But seriously? If they're going to gear up for MP+, won't they sacrifice a lot of +wind/singing/chr gears? I'd some-what understand the reasons for being a secondary BRD (then again... I'd rather have another DD than another BRD if no COR's to be found).

---
tl;dr
Let BRDs do their job and pull unless you want the traditional(?) way of pulling with THF/NIN or COR/NIN.
Actually, no. "BRD, Fisherman" "No? Goodbye! /laugh"

From the OP's question, and everyone's reply, it seems that we are mostly talking about Nyzul birds.

As a BRD, I like to be lazy and be the /WHM, and just chill and sing 4 songs. However, I know that I am killing the party's efficiency if I don't /NIN and pull.

1)That few seconds of the bird reflecting back the elegy is usually what keeps me from getting hit too much as I run back to camp. (Birds have enhanced movement speed).
2)BRD has no use whatsoever for TP, so I can freely switch out to the ISP throwing weapon and then my instrument and staves.
3) Sheihei I am using up is just slightly more than the amount the DD will be using. All in all, if the DD are spamming cheapkabobs, I think we may be spending same amount of gil.
4) Keeping up on my mage's buff doesn't require me to waste time running back there, I can stand still after buffing the melee, hit my pianissimo macro, and viola, Ballad 2!

I love my COR. I take pride in it. I love bragging about it, and my skills on it. However, I think it is an inferior job to pull on, especially on birds. ESPECIALLY on birds.

1) Long delay sucks. 10% Rapid shot activation is cool, but not realiable.
2) Peacemaker = poopoo slugshots. (This links back to 1)
3) Swapping out for ISP throwing weapon means I lose tp. I also have to re-equip my gun and bullets for lightshot. (Ok, maybe a sucky arguement but I have no macro rooms on my Corsair pallet for this.)
4) COR/DNC needs to be building tp, not pulling to back-up cure. (Woohoo for /DNC acc bonus)
5) Joyeuse. COR DoT is actually alot higher than people realize. That shiny blue rapier lets me WS once a mob. COR/DNC slugshot is still higher than your average geared melee.
6) Light shot takes 45 seconds for it to recharge. I resist once and I am down to no spare charges. I resist some other time down the line .. and then ...? I hope random deal resets it?
7) In general, the headache I get from pulling as COR makes me want to punch baby chipmunks. If everyone else gets to be chill in a merit party and lazy, then it is not fair for me to have to work twice as hard and spend twice the gil to get less exp than everyone. (Since there will be times I won't have COR roll active on me.)

For me, it's either /nin and pull or something with erase, pick your fancy and the brd will take the other slot. I always prefer minimum of two erasers in my pts to get the attack down off asap from wivre.

In a party with both COR and BRD, I prefer to pull as BRD. Its just that BRD can pull faster and as many have stated, COR can help in the DD department with /ra and Slug Shot. At the same time, as Vegetto stated, /nin for pulling. I hate saying COR/WHM as the other buffer, but if the birds run dry in a good meripo, its a must to pull Wivre at bird camp and Erase will be needed for Demoralizing Roar.

The other possibility is to camp the Mamools at the top camp and then if you start running out of them, pull a bird with the BRD. Thats what I do now-a-days. Last meripo I did averaged almost 25k/hr and setup was MNK,WAR,SAM,RDM,BRD,COR. We killed those mamools and I think the brd had to pull 1 bird before the respawn cycle helped us out with the Mamools there.

Of course, that party does have some room for improvement. First, my MNK doesn't have all the gear it needs. It has room for improvement (i.e. Black Belt, Byakkos, etc.). Second, the BRD was a little slow on the pulls (i.e. we had to roam some to make sure we kept exp going).

"We killed those mamools and I think the brd had to pull 1 bird before the respawn cycle helped us out with the Mamools there. "

I would never ever do that. I use expensive food on mamools. If we're doing mamools, it better be exclusive, *** birds.

If you are killing mobs faster than they re-pop then you must roam a little.
I hate it when the PT refuses to move and the war gets lazy on provoke. Bad enough the bard has a boring task. Save the poor guy some tools and don't ruin the one thing he is looking at when he pulls. Voke and roam when needed @.<

"If you are killing mobs faster than they re-pop then you must roam a little."
When I'm in a party and we kill mobs faster than they repop, it's because they're all gone, not because we're not moving lol. (also, lol at not moving)

Yeah, it kinda pissed me off when I had pizza eaten from me 4 times in that party. WAR and SAM never lost food though. He only did it as I said, to keep chain up.

Edit: And he wasn't listening to me when I told him not to pull birds because of food, but whatever, I got decent exp.
Don't get me wrong, we were roaming some, but he didn't release to go try and grab another mob until the one we were killing was at 10-15%. He should have released to go pull closer to 25-30%