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COR vs BRD in Meripo.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 324
By Asura.Endelig 2009-04-28 11:27:31
Wooooodum said: COR can pull very well in the correct situation, but that situation doesn't arise very often; and it never should with a BRD in the party. The simple fact is, that the March songs aside, the pulling capabilities of BRD is what makes it the optimum buffing job for merit parties. In any half decent party, monsters are being killed very fast, which means they need to be pulled very fast. The recast on Lullaby and the general lack of resists gives BRD the edge over COR.
COR can pull, but not as well as BRD. That's the sad truth.
HOWEVER,
People saying that COR can not perform as efficiently as /WHM as BRD's can are incorrect. What is the difference between COR and BRD in that department? The only difference is a couple of MP pieces COR can't necessarily equip. BRDs get no additional spells or abilities. On COR/WHM my maximum MP is 612 with 8/8 MP merits. On BRD, it's 841. That's not a gigantic difference when you think I'm support healing. If you're in a party on BRD or COR and you're main healing, get the *** out. It obviously sucks.
And when it comes to DD, really well geared CORs can parse up there with the best. In fact, in direct comparison to RNG, COR can easily win with the same buffs and rolls the RNG has. The only thing seperating COR and RNG apart is the 19 levels in skill on Marksmanship. If COR had that extra 19, I would bet money on the fact the best geared CORs could outparse some exceptionally geared RNGs.
I'd go so far as to say it'd take an Annihilator to outperform the best COR Gun to Gun if COR was A- in Marksmanship like RNG. Silly CORs
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 Cerberus.Mindi
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 602
By Cerberus.Mindi 2009-04-28 11:31:17
Frobeus said: Celdryn said: To Frob: Why would it elegy a DD? If I elegy something, its going to cast it on me unless a DD runs across the map to voke it. And if thats the case, then why isnt he fighting the bird that the rest of the party is fighting seeing as I am pulling before the other one is even at 50%. That my friend, makes no sense.
To Topic: Cor should never pull if theres a BRD in party. Cor should sub rng and have fun if you ask me. I think that your not getting what I was saying entirly. I'm not talking about a normal merit pt going at normal merit speed. This is a very well geared group of DD using food that are dropping birds much faster than they can pop. There have been countless times in this type of pt where the DD are voking a freshly popped bird as the brd is also pulling it and get the elegy on the DD. I know this type of pt isn't common for everyone but they do exist. If my pt was killing so slowly that brds were getting other birds while the one we were on was still @ 50% I'd be finding new DD's. even then a brd pulls better then a COR i dont merit without this kind of pt, if we dont need whole Nyzle Isle Birds which you can reach i just leave the PT...
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
Serveur: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-04-28 11:31:53
I don't let Cor DD in my pt. If your already killing too fast anyway making chain very hard to keep, adding more damage is just going to screw you even more.
Cerberus.Mindi
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 602
By Cerberus.Mindi 2009-04-28 11:34:14
the cor should /whm and dont melee... i never said cor to melee :P
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
Serveur: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-04-28 11:37:50
Mindi said: the cor should /whm and dont melee... i never said cor to melee :P Having the cor/whm or the brd/whm is the same thing. I just say that Brd has a few more options gear wise for 2ndry main healing than cor does. If your pulling with say a disc right as the bird pops then there is no difference who is pulling. You could have a pup do it for all I care, its just that the pup can't give you 2 buffs in between.
Serveur: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Hades.Celdryn 2009-04-28 11:37:58
Frobeus said: If my pt was killing so slowly that brds were getting other birds while the one we were on was still @ 50% I'd be finding new DD's. I pull, sleep, cast 1 song, pull sleep, cast 1 song. etc. Its almost immidiatly after I pull the bird. 1 song takes only a few seconds to cast with Minstrel's Ring. Ive never in my life been in a party where the DDs kill the bird before I can pull another one. That would be killing a bird in 10-20 seconds. Most partys take about 60-70 seconds per bird. If your killing birds in 15-20 seconds then you should merit somewhere else because your gonna end up just sitting there waiting for repops. God forbid if another party came. With DD that well geared, you can get some great exp on mamools.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
Serveur: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-04-28 11:39:21
Celdryn said: Frobeus said: If my pt was killing so slowly that brds were getting other birds while the one we were on was still @ 50% I'd be finding new DD's. I pull, sleep, cast 1 song, pull sleep, cast 1 song. etc. Its almost immidiatly after I pull the bird. 1 song takes only a few seconds to cast with Minstrel's Ring. Ive never in my life been in a party where the DDs kill the bird before I can pull another one. That would be killing a bird in 10-20 seconds. Most partys take about 60-70 seconds per bird. If your killing birds in 15-20 seconds then you should merit somewhere else because your gonna end up just sitting there waiting for repops. God forbid if another party came. This is my point, we DO kill that fast. Middle camp supports it fine as long as your pulling the wirve , from the bottom and mamools too.
Cerberus.Mindi
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 602
By Cerberus.Mindi 2009-04-28 11:44:07
well sure maybe a disc has longer range then brd songs, but how long does elegy cast? about 1 sec with ring/body and the time tho mobs come to camp you done 1 march -> sleep (someone /war vokes bird) -> pull next and when you somehow get to have your bird pulled to campw hen they just staretd with the old one you pulled you can buff mage. (and noo that dont means that the pt kills slow, just that you pull fast)
anyways my fav setup for meripo is brd/nin brd/whm cor/whatever they feel like and 2 very strong DD oh yea and the skilled rdm :)
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 301
By Carbuncle.Magistrella 2009-04-28 11:51:17
Mindi said: well sure maybe a disc has longer range then brd songs, but how long does elegy cast? about 1 sec with ring/body and the time tho mobs come to camp you done 1 march -> sleep (someone /war vokes bird) -> pull next and when you somehow get to have your bird pulled to campw hen they just staretd with the old one you pulled you can buff mage. (and noo that dont means that the pt kills slow, just that you pull fast)
anyways my fav setup for meripo is brd/nin brd/whm cor/whatever they feel like and 2 very strong DD oh yea and the skilled rdm :) This pt setup means... you kill slow... definitly... rdm cor brd dd dd dd = overkill where you need one stage +1/2 birds from above/below @NI Bhaflau camp... and yeah, i got a chain 300+ there with that setup cause we were actually not killing to fast/slow <.< cor brd brd rdm... is kinda... hell whatcha need that for? <.<" spare some brds for other pts... :x
Cerberus.Mindi
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 602
By Cerberus.Mindi 2009-04-28 11:57:27
Magistrella said: Mindi said: well sure maybe a disc has longer range then brd songs, but how long does elegy cast? about 1 sec with ring/body and the time tho mobs come to camp you done 1 march -> sleep (someone /war vokes bird) -> pull next and when you somehow get to have your bird pulled to campw hen they just staretd with the old one you pulled you can buff mage. (and noo that dont means that the pt kills slow, just that you pull fast)
anyways my fav setup for meripo is brd/nin brd/whm cor/whatever they feel like and 2 very strong DD oh yea and the skilled rdm :) This pt setup means... you kill slow... definitly... rdm cor brd dd dd dd = overkill where you need one stage +1/2 birds from above/below @NI Bhaflau camp... and yeah, i got a chain 300+ there with that setup cause we were actually not killing to fast/slow <.< cor brd brd rdm... is kinda... hell whatcha need that for? <.<" spare some brds for other pts... :x All ppl say its slow till they saw it... this is by far not slow it is very fast but not too fast. What you have? 2 DD's to haste. 6 buffs (where one buff can be cor roll :P) and i think its 10 birds on middle camp + 4-5 you can reach at bottom floor. And you need all of those a PT on buttom floor makes it ***. IDC on other PT's to be honest... the one time i merit i want my 3 merits/hour and leave as soon as possible again. You cant do that with random ppl cause they will suck most likly. Thats something our DD's can put out... its from our Forum about epeen SS :P  ok i think that was cheated (War 2hr and all the stuff)
Necro Bump Detected!
[159 days between previous and next post]
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 164
By Sylph.Oxbloodravenxo 2009-10-04 15:28:41
Personally as a Cor main i don't mind pulling so much But if i have a brd in my party as well as myself as cor i will generally prefer the brd to pull. I simply believe that cor can pull as well as a brd with fully merited QD delay+Mirke and peacemaker but brd can probably be alot more efficient due to the loss of cor DD.
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Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2009-10-04 15:29:45
Wtf is with all the necrobumps lately c.c
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 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Serveur: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2009-10-04 15:36:16
Better than creating an entirely new thread on the same topic, I guess.
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Asura.Crewe
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Asura.Crewe 2009-10-04 16:00:19
Drg is ok, but a well very well geared Sam/War in x2brd, or brd/cor pt will out do well geared Drg/anything. [/quote] Talking from a RDM standpoint with /WAR SAMs never using Seig is a real MP drain, having a DRG/Mage they have infinite MP and a well geared DRG with relic can cure near 800 (What I've seen) wasting a minimal of 6mp.
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 Remora.Meredoc
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 121
By Remora.Meredoc 2009-10-30 13:52:14
Garuda.Wooooodum said: COR can pull very well in the correct situation, but that situation doesn't arise very often; and it never should with a BRD in the party. The simple fact is, that the March songs aside, the pulling capabilities of BRD is what makes it the optimum buffing job for merit parties. In any half decent party, monsters are being killed very fast, which means they need to be pulled very fast. The recast on Lullaby and the general lack of resists gives BRD the edge over COR.
COR can pull, but not as well as BRD. That's the sad truth.
HOWEVER,
People saying that COR can not perform as efficiently as /WHM as BRD's can are incorrect. What is the difference between COR and BRD in that department? The only difference is a couple of MP pieces COR can't necessarily equip. BRDs get no additional spells or abilities. On COR/WHM my maximum MP is 612 with 8/8 MP merits. On BRD, it's 841. That's not a gigantic difference when you think I'm support healing. If you're in a party on BRD or COR and you're main healing, get the *** out. It obviously sucks.
And when it comes to DD, really well geared CORs can parse up there with the best. In fact, in direct comparison to RNG, COR can easily win with the same buffs and rolls the RNG has. The only thing seperating COR and RNG apart is the 19 levels in skill on Marksmanship. If COR had that extra 19, I would bet money on the fact the best geared CORs could outparse some exceptionally geared RNGs.
I'd go so far as to say it'd take an Annihilator to outperform the best COR Gun to Gun if COR was A- in Marksmanship like RNG. This.
And it should be 3 Rolls not 2. The price for not having to pull should be missing out on Corsair's roll from time to time. Evoker's > Corsair's > Samurai's also I SUB WAR or WHM.
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By Sierran 2009-11-24 06:50:32
If your meriting let the bard pull.
COR/WAR with mkris or joytoy can build TP and then WS like crazy and can do impreesive 1000-1700 Slug Shots. (My Highest was 1765)
It frustrates me that ppl dont use COR for this setup.
Ive pulled on cor. I was to be frank lame. Even if you dont have a BRD and your only support is Healer and Cor its still better to roam in a clockwise cirle letting the war voke pull. Mobs are no more then a few feet away and cor can sleep links while they continue to DD.
There is nothing funner then winding up melle DD's with WS's that do more damage. Only problem is a Mkris puts out such a low dot.
btw ive merited as both /rng and /war. War is way more fun ;p
Seraph.Helixx
Serveur: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 103
By Seraph.Helixx 2009-11-24 07:27:40
As career BRD i got to say BRD > COR in ANY pulling situation in exp PT's. BRD has Sleep and AoE sleep. With 5 sleep recast merits you can almost throw them out without delay, not to mention 20% haste from songs.
COR/nin for pulling
COR/war/nin for DD if you have a BRD.
Also what is a missconseption is that pulling with elegy is bad... IT GIVES -50% HASTE to the bird. Meaning your DD's spend more time hitting and less time recasting shadows. Pull ONLY with elegy, no excuses. If someone gets it on them instead, your healer will erase it.
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-24 07:47:06
Brd > cor if you have to pick between the two.
Not only is double march > any combo you can get from cor, but elegy putting the bird at -50% speed means less mp consumed by the mage, meaning more aggressive your DDs can become.
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Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-11-24 08:11:00
cough cough smner cough cough...
Gilgamesh.Lunatone
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 149
By Gilgamesh.Lunatone 2009-11-29 15:51:16
<<<Cor75 and brd>cor pulling i cant stand pullin on cor i'm already broke-.- im just shootin gil i dont have then having to sleep with only 2 charges with 1 returning every minute considering merit birds link brd>cor pulling i feel like im wastin dmg when i have to pull in merits
Serveur: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-11-29 15:55:10
Seraph.Helixx said: Pull ONLY with elegy, no excuses. If someone gets it on them instead, your healer will erase it.
I prefer Finale on BLM Mamools personally. :x
But outside of that, yes. I don't know why people argue about which is better though. Get both. COR & BRD > BRD & BRD or COR & COR.
Midgardsormr.Kireime
Serveur: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Midgardsormr.Kireime 2009-11-29 16:44:03
Carbuncle.Magistrella said: Mindi said: well sure maybe a disc has longer range then brd songs, but how long does elegy cast? about 1 sec with ring/body and the time tho mobs come to camp you done 1 march -> sleep (someone /war vokes bird) -> pull next and when you somehow get to have your bird pulled to campw hen they just staretd with the old one you pulled you can buff mage. (and noo that dont means that the pt kills slow, just that you pull fast)
anyways my fav setup for meripo is brd/nin brd/whm cor/whatever they feel like and 2 very strong DD oh yea and the skilled rdm :)
This pt setup means... you kill slow... definitly...
rdm cor brd dd dd dd = overkill where you need one stage 1/2 birds from above/below @NI Bhaflau camp... and yeah, i got a chain 300 there with that setup cause we were actually not killing to fast/slow <.<
cor brd brd rdm... is kinda... hell whatcha need that for? <.<" spare some brds for other pts... :x
This is not a slow setup. In fact, it's one of the best I've ever done. A good cor (going /rng or /war) who DDs will fulfill the normal party condition of |rdm brdx2 DDx3| while giving an additional 2 buffs. Of course, this kind of party requires both bird camps to be empty to be efficient. My best parse using this setup showed 36k/hr. I was the cor, so cor roll wasn't on me the entire time, but that means the xp/hr was likely slightly higher.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Asura.Nightbear 2009-11-29 17:05:01
BRD COR + WHM/SCH and really good DDs can get you 30k+ hr, we tryed also COR BRD DNC/WHM and got 31.5k hr.
Well geared,Merited NINs can do a great job for those who think NINs no longer can burn ;), the bird lated for about 20-25 secs so we ended up killing the moving rocks... wyvres or w/e they called, to keep the chain going. Yes you will lose your chain eventually due to repops or other partys walking in but you regain exp so fast it dosn't really matter. in the end in a lapse of 2hrs you gained 6 merits. all it takes is some teamwork and working with the right jobs.
DD set up : NIN WAR SAM, ( COR BRD WHM )
WAR WAR SAM ( COR BRD DNC )
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-29 17:10:33
From what I've heard expwatch has been busted anyways. I've seen some really rediciouls exp/hr rates. I use Kparse. But rly, on multiple occasions I was kparsing and got 30k/hr and someone else in my pt said we were doing 45. So I'm not sure if it's just his version or w/e but I've personally never trusted kparse. Especially the 31.5, tough exp/hr to swallow w/o a rdm or whm in the pt.
Serveur: Siren
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By Siren.Enternius 2009-11-29 17:13:27
The part that sounds unbelievable to me is the NIN using Koga body and no Blau, as one of three DDs allowed in such a party setup.
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Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-11-29 17:14:13
Fairy.Vegetto said: Especially the 31.5, tough exp/hr to swallow w/o a rdm or whm in the pt.
I've had several DRG DRG DRG DRG BRD COR parties before that have easily gotten this sort of experience, probably better.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Asura.Nightbear 2009-11-29 17:17:18
Well this was from 3.26 and is year old pic , im retired now ..for now lol ( FFXI is worse than crack ) and we easly made 30k hr on those set ups, like i said, you need really good players. well geared and everyone know their job, the COR tryed not to even touch the birds unless it was for holding it when other partys came in. feeding TP to a mob with low damage weapons is a big NO even with enspells, WHM/SCH can outperform the average RDM. a really good DNC ( OMGLEENE ) proved to us that DNC can main heal on a merit pt. never heard of this kparse. but would be nice to try it if come back to play eventually. also notice the weapons we using. WAR and SAM with polearms = win on bird. you can land 1500 to 2000 pentatrust , DRGs can do way better sadly we didnt have any DRG friend on to try it out at the time.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Asura.Nightbear 2009-11-29 17:19:39
yup we basictly riped off the idea of DRG Burns, we heard they were doing 29ksish per hour so we tryed out with WAR and SAMs , now the good thing is that DRGs can do /mage and keep them selfs alive w/o any mage on the PT. and was before DRG got good updates. Back in the day (2006-07) got see some really good DRGs do this kind of stuff yet nobody belived it.
I leveled COR when it first came out for the simple reason, fast merit invites yet can get by without having to pull. Recently for the last week or so every invite i have had is COR + BRD and yet the pt wants me to pull. With the delay of my gun, plus timers on Light Shot and losing the DD power of Slugshot, i dont understand why COR makes a better puller over BRD, any ideas?
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