COR Vs BRD In Meripo.

Hell, when it comes to zerg, even haste samba disagrees

True. but your saying that a rep Brd would out do a Cor in damage with two buffs to three DDs?

NE: I'm talking Merit pts BTW

If you've got decent gear haste plus the spell, and especially if all 3 DDs have Hasso, dual Marches is a force to be reckoned with. Add Haste Samba and there's no contest. I'd pick a COR over a BRD for BLMs, but the first support slot for DDs should always go to a BRD.

EDIT: For merits? Get both if you can =P BRD first though.

By miles.

A good DD with 20 gear haste and 15 from the spell.

your adding another 19-22 from double march.

Thats 20/35 = 57% increase in attack speed, which would directly translate into 57% more DoT and WS damage.

Hasso, Last resort, haste samba increase this a lot.

So in the end a brds two haste buffs would give the DDs enough power to surpass a COR's two buff's and Melee/WS?

No, 1 brd with 2 haste buffs is enough to surpass a Cors damage + buffs.

That's what I said. So the second slot(since the first slot is a brd with haste buffs up)goes to COR because it has better alternate buffs after march?

Sorry I read it as 2 BRDs giving 2 marches.

Best case for a COR is about a 35% increase in DPS for the other DDs via Chaos and Fighter's Roll with a WAR and DRK in the party. That's assuming you're just meriting to rape ***rather than get EXP, at which point you'd replace Fighter's with Corsair's. It's also assuming Chaos Roll doesn't overcap pDIF, which may be an issue if what I've heard about the new pDIF equation is true. Both these jobs have Hasso and around 18% gear Haste with decent gear...

18+15+10=43 Haste before a BRD. The increase from 20% Haste at this point is 54%. Haste Samba makes it 74%. The COR's DPS isn't going to make up the additional 19-39% in damage.

But yes, the second slot should go to a COR. Minuets and no DPS versus Chaos and either Corsair's or Fighter's depending on your goals along with some DPS is no contest.

Np

interesting thread. poor bart.

i agree brd should pull if he's good. cor/whm can still dps. he still uses joyeuse. he still can slug shot. albeit, he can't do it as well, but still can do it well. he also has erase and dia 2 if the whm/rdm are having an issue w/ them.

i have a question though that nightfyre brings up. corsair by default should do corsair's roll. i don't deny this. but, if what we're saying is that dia2/3 is enough to cap cratio, is chaos roll not redundant in most situations making fighter's roll better? and doesn't a party of samurai make STP roll good?

s'math, if a SAM has +26 STP, a 5 or better (bar 6) on STP roll will give the SAM a 5-hit on a 450 delay GK. this would be for GK, and thus against MMJ. Not sure if STP roll can push a pole to a 4-hit reliably. (I doubt it.)

also, on crit rate, does rogue's roll sit on top of capped crit rate from ddex? or does it help reach the cap? would rogue's roll ever be good in a merit party w/ a thf?

chaos roll, at what point is it redundant? how do we know? does /check help us know? i.e., if a monster checks at low defense, would chaos roll be likely redundant?

thanks for listening.

Shouldn't be the case

Also mobs that check low defense mean you have 20 more (or maybe its 10, it's 20 or 10) more attack than they do defense. This does not even account for level correlation, so you could get a low defense checking mob that could have higher defense total (thx to correlation) than a lower level mob that checks high defense.

It depends, current theories state that ratio is capped and then corrected for level, so capped ratio is capped ratio no matter what the level of the mob.

And Dia II + food is enough to cap ratio on birds (for most jobs).

But that's only a theory

Eh, my dmg always goes up w/ the addition of chaos roll

there was a thread from a long while back talking about how dia made minuet redundant in a merit party. so, adv. march>minuet4. this is why i thought this. maybe i misinterpreted it. (edit: the thread: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/?topic_id=6735)

also, i was under the impression that if you had 1.5x more attack than the defense of the target, that is when a monster would con 'low defense.' maybe this is old information or i am completely wrong.

so minuet/chaos are not redundant. but, the consensus is that marchx2 is still better (than march/minuet) even if minuet isn't redundant. especially true if a cor is available for chaos roll which is the cor's best 2nd roll most of the time, correct? dia+chaos+food being capped or near capped cratio.

for shiggles, here's a proposed 'sam w/ sam roll' tp build. obviously rare gear here, but i wanted to show that a sam could cut corners and have +26 STP w/o much of an issue and thus make STP roll give a consistent 5-hit hagun.

No doubt, but are you getting the 'full return' from the extra attack? Thats the debate/question.

Remora's CORs just fail or you trolling?

i think he's saying that b/c it buffs *and* deals damage (however meager) it makes it as a total sum a powerhouse. the ultimate DD in fact. i don't think he's trolling or saying CORs on his server fail.

March x2 has been the best DD songs for as long as there has been decent haste builds for DD jobs... which is since CoP.

Minuet is generally a waste buff on a GKT on nearly any mob due to the large attack boost it gets.


For other weapons;
Chaos is only (possibly) redundant when you have a good RDM casting Dia II or III on every mob.

Chaos is better than minuet 20% is > 55 static boost normally.

Well, most of the CORs I know, and indeed myself, take great offense at our damage being considered meager. Since with enough effort gear wise, COR is on-par with average SAMs and DRGs in merit parties. Weapon skills will quite often be consistently higher, albeit less frequent. Considering the effort I've put into gearing my COR and how much damage (relatively also, unless merriting with beasts) I can actually produce, it's hard not to take offense... If indeed this is being used as a generalisation.

Hence the comment.

And yeah, I know we'll never beat others overall due to the much poorer DoT, but a COR with the same 2x march, 21% Haste and 2 Minuets / Chaos with Joyeuse / Slug Shot spam, is also capable of producing some fantastic DoT.

THIS^

BTW I was a COR. You seem overly sensitive in regard to my statement. I simply meant "meager" in comparison to full fledged DDs in damage output.

Best exp party I ever had was BRD, BRD, COR, COR, SAM(me), RDM

We were clearing all of the colibri in middle(and any we could reach on the bottom), then clearing all the Wivres on middle floor.

I really wish I could merit with some of those people again :(

EDIT: I should mention that everyone had a very large amount of salvage gear.

just for the sake of correcting. not trying to argue, but minuet w/o merits is +66 attack. i don't deny that +20% (average chaos result) is greater than +66 though.

and glad i was spot on for you, meredoc.

but argettio, so minuet isn't a wasted song entirely. it may not be 'best,' but at least the players benefit from the +attack. i'm at least glad to hear that because for the longest time, i always did march/minuet. after learning about march x2, i was like damn i was only performing at half capacity.

any idea about 1.5x attack being 'low def' though? maybe it was bad information that i received a long time ago. i've been under that impression for years. or, again, maybe they changed how it worked.

My best xp ever war brd brd cor cor war rdm, I was rdm tho..good old merit days with Fryte and Genosync, Cyr you might have been brd in that pt I can't remember. It was a long time ago..

2 cors in a pt is a waste imo.

I second that.

IMO Bard has the trump card over COR when it comes to merit parties for the sake of march & elegy. However, Corsair certainly holds its own with DA, STP & exp rolls, not to mention they do pretty decent damage on their own too. However, it's best when combined together.

It was fun with 4 rolls and 4 song, damage wasn't an issue and neither was keeping chain going. Iirc both Cor's were Joy/Mkris blasting away as no support healing was needed.

BRD and COR are like fish and chips. On their own, they're pretty good. Nice and tasty. Combine the two and then they really become legendary!

Spot the Brit...