What Buffs Would You Pick?

Sam needs a HTBF set, it's fallen behind other DPS in terms of HP and DT. Last year every job got a new HTBF set/pieces except Sam.

Sam is still arguably the best DD.

People keep saying RDM is OP, exactly how?

No soloing omens bosses doesn't make it OP. Or else NIN needs a nerf since NIN can solo omen bosses too.



I've been watching Kaggras channel and he solo/lowman on wide variety of jobs including MNK NIN BLU, not just rdm. If a job is played by a skilled player, it can seem OP regardless of the job. If we balance the job based on top 1% players that plays the job at max potential, then many job needs a nerf because these people can do 1 or 2 things other jobs can't since they played their job to their strengths.



We didnt.

Last aeonic run I've only seen MNK on used on vini for blunt dmg, and MNK didn't win parse either. For everything else DD jobs are SAM THF DNC COR RNG depending on mobs. I didnt see overwhelming amount of MNK being used on everything and other jobs being told that can't come.

For exactly the same reasons people like you were crying for a nerf to BLU. Extreme utility, buffs that last 20m+, debuffs that have been superpowered now with all the gear they've gotten, great damage via SB or enspell/elemental WS. Nigh unkillable with their defenses they literally have no downsides. BLU is stuck casting a billion spells over and over while RDM gets the benefit of sitting on 20m+ buffs and 10m+ debuffs. Great support with great damage and great resilience.

You can show one video of a random job soloing something, but there is not one job that is like RDM that can literally solo all of them due to how OP it is atm. Balance has always been about what a job is capable of at max level, I just gave a few examples earlier and they are not the only ones. SE has been balancing like this for ages.

I rarely advocate for nerfs, which is why I suggested buffs but I do find it really hypocritical you're saying MNK or RDM doesn't deserve any kind of adjustments but you were the leading voice in a nerf for BLU back then.


Well I have, the difference being you're on a dead server and I'm not. So my view has more impact because its where a majority of players are. It isn't about being told "you can't come unless x job" because people exclude for idris GEOs and all kinds of reasons. The issue is with balance at max level, it doesn't necessarily mean the idiots running around town are only playing x job. It's what x job is capable of when compared to the others, overall balance.

I posted why BLU had design issues in 2015 in this thread already. Basically its irrelevant to what you said here.


There were BLU only yell in 2015, rdm only yell doesn't exist in 2020 except for very selected fights that needs certain debuff like silence for this month. And even then rdm isn't 100% required to silence either.

In BLU only setup other DD doesn't get invite, in a setup with rdm other DD still gets invite.

Rdm in 2020 isn't anywhere as unbalanced as you said, and I see very little issue with RDM at all.

COR is arguably more unbalanced than RDM and MNK both, rdm and mnk are both fine even if MNK is a little bit better choice for lowman. For zergs, drawn out fight and alliance fight I dont see MNK being a vastly superior DD choice.

RUN is a lot less OP since PLD update since PLD now has it's own perks.

SMN is fine since it's only better than other job choices on a few NM, AND only of you reset SP.

Overall I think you are exaggerating the balance issue.

I'm not on a dead server and I'm very well aware of current community trend. I do see more people bandwagon MNK recently, but most of their reasons are "easy to gear" or "want to farm lilith".

When it comes to things like Ambuscade community rarely kick none MNK DD for MNKs.

MNK is a good lowman DD job, that's for sure. But in alliance zergs it doesn't have any super strong dmg SP like SMN DNC WAR. It's good at one thing(lowman) but not everything. If I start noticing MNK winning every single WoC parses by landslide amount I'd call for a nerf. I just haven't seen that happen yet.

Once again you are missing the point, who puts the rule that a job isn't "OP" unless everyone is demanding that job in PUG? I don't know where you think that is the only qualifier. There is literally like only one alliance/larger fight in the game and that is Dyna D, keep that in mind. Barely anyone does Dyna D except a very small percentage of the community because you can skip it entirely once you get wins. Everyone else is focused on Omen, Escha, HTB and similar level content. There isn't just one single event in the game to be a qualifier for what can be considered OP.

I never said RDM and MNK were the only OP jobs, in fact I gave more examples based on my opinion. So I don't know why you're listing the others off while we are discussing these two.

BLU onry and no other job was a stupid mentality pushed by idiots who only look at the latest video and follow it to a T. Every other intelligent player knew that BLU was not REQUIRED by any means necessary, nor was it always optimal in every situation. In fact, the biggest boon that you keep crying about was MG and not needing Indi-haste from entrust... That is hardly a huge benefit considering entrust is always weak and indi-haste is actually one of the good spells for it. Everyone intelligent knew that other jobs, including BRD, needed a boost and it wasn't BLU that needed to be nerfed.

During that time period the only real current content was high tier battles... Now we are more varied and it is much easier to see the discrepancies between certain jobs.

Dude, there is one "alliance" event (even that is stretching it considering you can low man Dyna) and its Dyna D. You keep using what people shout for as some metric to determine if a job is OP, its silly. 90% of content in this game is 6 man and under, who cares about parses in Dyna D. We are talking overall usefulness and balance. I primarily am advocating for buffs, like a lot of other posters here, but I think its silly to say RDM and MNK aren't favored jobs at this time.

@Draylo- demand does not make a job OP. It makes it easy to use to accomplish a task. That's why SMN burn became so powerful...it was shown to be very cheap and easy to gear to a level at which accomplishing a task was possible with predictable results. It honestly is more a fault of the content than an example of the OP'ness of the job.

I think the vast majority of players I've associated with over the years agreed with the general concept of declaring a job "OP" if by simply following a shopping list and engaging success was possible. When you can completely ignore the mechanics of a fight, then something is OP. If something is just really *** strong after putting a lot of effort into a job, that's just rewarding said effort.

Most of the RDMs who do high end soloing that I talk with about strats/etc are capable of DD'ing in at least 6 methods, meaning TP/WS sets for at least 3, probably 4, weapons; precast/midcast sets for 4 types of magic, and multiple idle sets. It doesn't just happen with 3 sets like a Savage Blade only Corsair, or 3-4 sets for a burn-only SMN. So if they are capable of high end content after all that effort AND the practice of executing the various strategies, reward 'em.

This is silly, if a job isn't being demanded for everything, then it isn't "OP". You can call the job "popular", that's different from "OP".



Ok....so more than one jobs in your mind are "OP", that means none of them are!

Do you even know what OP means? It means its drastically better than everything else.

FFXI has 22 jobs so some will be better than another in certain situation, that's normal.


How can you say that?
If you used in Indi haste then no wilt/fade/attune etc. Using these is still part of the strategy even today.

That being said, I already agree that brd buff was the best way to fix blu design issue in 2015. That doesn't mean the design issue didnt exist back in 2015. You are trying hard to downplay the design issue in 2015 or forced a different argument when you talk about it. Using a rdm mnk doesn't give you 1 geo bubble, so why are you comparing them? Different job, different mechanics.

You act like RDM is some super complex job. It uses the same combination of gear sets as most jobs, most solos boil down to trust combination, max level gear, using certain mechanics to overpower the enemy (RDM case, they have HUGE buff durations meaning lest casts, HUGE debuff durations meaning less casts and less mob movement) and a little LUCK. You're talking to someone who used to solo a lot of content, most of those videos don't show you the tons of times they wiped.

I never said it was the only reason I consider RDM to be OP, I gave many other examples. You should never use "well this job requires a lot of gear!" as a means to say its justified in being OP, we've already discussed that in the past. The same level you pay to upgrade SMN can be applied to RDM. A few AF upgrades, a crocea mars/naegling and other upgrades, just like every job has to go through. You can already see all the bandwagon RDM purchasing that sword as its the most popular for a reason.

BLU didn't ignore any mechanics of any fight, yet Afania and even people like Thorny were saying its OP because of things like Cocoon and MG. BLU was also one of the more inventory and gear intensive jobs at that time as well. None of those meet your qualifiers for OP yet it was enough for them to judge and for SE to ninja nerf it.

"Useful", sure. "Favored", sure.

OP? No.

Sure, it didn't ignore any mechanics of the fight. But keeping full time MG still needs 2 BLU and that kicks out any other DD from participating.

That's clearly bad design no matter how you look at it. Such issue simply doesn't exist now so idk why people are complaining.

Youre wrong and its showing. A job being popular DOES NOT mean it is OP, nor is that the only qualifier. You are being extremely short sited. I'll give you one example, not many people pick up on metas for jobs, case in point all the people running for a KC now and you have every person coming in the thread and asking "why KC?"

Yes I know what OP means, it doesn't mean there can be only one. Are you kidding me? lol

How can I say that about a weak entrusted spell? Go look up the values on wiki and tell me that is something that will change the fate of a battle. If you rely on an entrust then you are doing it wrong. You didn't agree with a buff being the best choice, you and others were noted for saying specifically that BLU was OP.

Maybe we just have different opinion on what "OP" means? I just dont agree with how you use the word.

Fights in that era were all under 5 minutes... HTB, Omen bosses. You could simply reset JA's for entrust or have other work arounds. Once again, you did not NEED two BLU especially for something so silly as HTB which is what everyone was using it for.

More than one job can be OP, do you really disagree with that? I find it hard to believe. We are all stating our opinions, in my opinion a job is OP when it clearly outclasses a large percentage of the jobs in almost every category. We see that with MNK and RDM, I can compare them to my BLU and other jobs in a wide range of events and see it. I don't get how that could be seen as anything but unbalanced (which also means OP.)

Did I? I dont think I did, or at least fixed the wording at one point. I believe the word I used back in 2015 was "design issue" or "need adjustments", not "OP".

And the design adjustment was made with brd buff anyways so it proved that I was right about MG mechanic was seriously wrong back then.

Why would we run back to town to reset JA when HTB are all spamable fights?

Also omen was post brd buff content.

MNK doesn't clealr outclass BLU in almost every category. Kaggra soloed VD on BLU in 15 min, he didnt do that with MNK.

By your standard BLU is more OP than MNK, lol.

You can't list 1 thing a jobs good at and call it OP, while ignoring its weaknesses. That's biased.

Then it was specifically HTB, you run back to town to collect a KI, you can easily run into the mog house and change sub back and forth to reset JA. This is only assuming you want a weak entrusted spell, that will probably see 0 benefit visibly.


So how was the issue with BLU at all, if the job in question got a buff (remember, along side other DD jobs) and BLU remained the exact same? You were fighting tooth and nail with me on forums over our opinions on it, and I never said other jobs needed nerfs or BLU, I said other jobs need BUFFS yet you were arguing BLU was OP.

He soloed a VD that specifically benefitted AOE dmg and the petrify effect, you're comparing one video to show a job isn't OP cmon now. I can show you many an example of MNK face tanking crap like HTB with 0 utility spells or any of the fancy gizmos like Cocoon that you and others cried about. Look at Lilith battles and how Taint constantly comes in bragginga bout how his MNK solos it in 10 seconds. That isn't an isolated incident. MNK with its extremely low TP feed and now with its huge damage output, why use another job given everything is low man now? We aren't listing one thing, we are talking overall job balance.

never meant to imply some mystical complexity. Merely meant to convey the level of work through capping more skills and needing to farm/buy more gear to create the results vs other jobs that have at times been recently called OP and what that entailed.

I do think that what we are considering that "OP" is different, and as such is resulting in varying requirements to be considered that. Half the reason I mentioned the requirements to make a job like RDM work at these high-profile levels was to show it just doesn't happen...and that ability to mindlessly and easily reach the highest levels the game had to offer is what made other jobs considered OP in the past. Again I use the SMN-burn example- it allowed someone to rather easily build a job to a level that could defeat the content which at that time was the hardest SE gave us, and do so faster,cheaper, and easier than what was required of other jobs to be competent for that level of content. It wasn't that SMN could do it...it was how simply they could/can do it that upset so many.

If your definition of OP boils down to a job's ability, no matter how much it takes to reach that level, well then these days there's 8-10 OP jobs depending on your situation and dedication. I see DNCs that can rip things' faces off and destroy a decked out DRK in a high-level content parse, and I've seen at least 5 jobs capable of soloing at least 2 of the Omen bosses. I prefer to see a job only OP if it can reach those extreme accomplishments with very little effort, because that to me screams of a fault of design in the job rather than the results of hyper dedication/addiction to a job.

1)What about UNM and SR, are you gonna run back too?

2)The issue was how haste buff works, and BLU happened to have an advantage with that. Defensive stats and good dps were icing on the cake.

And no I dont think I used the term OP, read my last post. I said it has design issues that made BLU favorable in 6 man party which needed a change.

You have the tendency to twist others word in an argument, but it doesn't make you right. Taint never said MNK solos lilith E in 10 sec, he said he trio boxed lilith E with MNK THF/DRK RDM in the 30 sec after engage.

I have soloed lilith E 60 sec on cor after engage, you have soloed lilith E and 60 sec after engage too.

MNK Being able to kill lilith E 30 seconds faster than other jobs using 2 more character doesn't make it OP. I mean, 30 seconds with 2 more character is a big deal, seriously?

I've yet to see MNK doing anything impressive yet. 30 sec lilith E kill with 3 characters isn't "Op" by any means.

1. You simply have your GEO use entrust > indi-haste. Those are all quick battles, all done low man and didn't require such extensive buffing that you would be desperate for that weak entrusted spell. You use a BRD even, they weren't useless and everyone still used BRD at that time period.

2. It really didn't, there were various ways to cap haste and a GEO or BRD were a staple in every single party. Hell, we even used the debate that most groups used TWO GEO because BRD didn't compare as much. WIth two GEO you alternate your entrusts and you have the same effect with an even more powerful GEO spell.

We can debate what term you used, but its in the past. I know I remember everyone that bashed BLU because I sat there thinking, are these people really saying crap like Cocoon makes BLU OP? I was really floored that nobody knew they could use a BRD or double GEO and have the same results. You aren't talking the difference between a win or a loss, you're talking the difference of completing a fight within seconds. No entrusted spell would make or break any fight, I don't know how you could think that. That is so far from my idea of OP, BLU was not required at all and you even had people saying that in that time period.

I'd like to see the Relic WS get some love. Some are rather underwealming.

It is one example that extends to all forms of content. We already established that literally 90% of the game is low man with 6 or under. All content in the game benefits from a MNK now that they've been super buffed, I see little reason to use others. I didn't mean to use his example as the only thing but he actually did solo it on MNK with trusts in one of his examples. if 30s isn't a big deal, I don't get why you somehow think an entrusted spell is. Most groups ran double GEO in that era, it wasn't a big deal and in fact was a boon because if a dispel went off and you lost haste, an entrusted haste would do more than a weak barrier.

You can even take your words and apply them to RDM. You say the extra survivability was the icing on the cake. So with RDMs super powered debuffs and huge duration buffs, with their more than adequate DD potential magical and physical, being nigh unkillable and you don't think they have an advantage over a large majority of jobs in the game? What exactly is balanced to you. We already established that MG was not required in any era, you just said it made use of a weak entrust. Or maybe your metric for OP is only if the PUG crew is demanding x job (which btw, iGEO is demanded 24/7 for the dumbest content.)

There are meta's that the public has not even caught onto, they aren't the metric to be used to determine if a job at top level is OP or not. I think SE knows that too, because given their history they've done adjustments on things that not everyone was using.

Then you think too much, and I dont understand why you hold such a grudge after such a long time.

When SAM THF BST BLM SMN COR RUN was a thing community complained about it too, not just blu. If certain jobs are clearly a better choice, community will always give opinions.

But for whatever reason you overreacted when blu where mentioned. You tried way too hard to defend for blu.

That's exactly why you feel people "bash blu" or being blu haters. If you just let it go then the thread would just die. We all play this game long enough to know that bandwagon jobs changes all the time anyways. But when you respond with "no blu isn't op" of course people will respond with "yes they are" then debate never ends.

If you just respond with "I agree that something is wrong, SE should fix how haste work by using this" and move on then there wouldn't be nearly as many people ask for nerf back then.