Unfortunately there are enough people in the country who would blame TSA for not doing enough if something happened, with some sort of horrible 20/20 hindsight that causes agencies like this to have to walk a political tightrope.
It's hard to blame one just entity for this type of thing, even though TSA is enacting it.
Edit: Well hard for me, not as hard for others apparently.
the politics that allowed this are just as much to blame, but for them not to realize this ***is ridiculous (and the backlash they're getting is obvious) and that they should change their policies to things not so invasive and more effective measures and get the other politics out of it (scanners being pushed by politicians backed by the manufacturers anyone?) we might actually get something done.
The first though I had when I heard the hijackers on 9/11 took over the plane with box cutters was why didn't the passengers fight back like that other plane? (forget the flight number, you know the one they made a tv movie about that crashed in PA)
My first thought WASN'T "OMG OMG, We need a *** more secuirty!"
The only thought about security I had was "***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
my thought was "why did they allow them on the plane, box cutters went against the airport security guidelines" (before tsa tookover)
The first though I had when I heard the hijackers on 9/11 took over the plane with box cutters was why didn't the passengers fight back like that other plane? (forget the flight number, you know the one they made a tv movie about that crashed in PA)
My first thought WASN'T "OMG OMG, We need a *** more secuirty!"
The only thought about security I had was "***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
IIRC they had trained in h2h combat, and planned to slit one guys throat to keep the passengers scared/chaotic etc while they went for the pilots.
Point is they can still do it with like a myriad of things.
So:
Quote:
"***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
The first though I had when I heard the hijackers on 9/11 took over the plane with box cutters was why didn't the passengers fight back like that other plane? (forget the flight number, you know the one they made a tv movie about that crashed in PA)
My first thought WASN'T "OMG OMG, We need a *** more secuirty!"
The only thought about security I had was "***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
IIRC they had trained in h2h combat, and planned to slit one guys throat to keep the passengers scared/chaotic etc while they went for the pilots.
Point is they can still do it with like a myriad of things.
So:
Quote:
"***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
i'm not sure what kind of H2H combat prepares you for 100ish passengers
that said, the reason for thier compliance was likely that most hostage situations before that ended with landing and demanding money, in other words with the passengers living through the ordeal
it's possible that they figured the hijackers were the only ones left that knew how to fly the plane
The first though I had when I heard the hijackers on 9/11 took over the plane with box cutters was why didn't the passengers fight back like that other plane? (forget the flight number, you know the one they made a tv movie about that crashed in PA)
My first thought WASN'T "OMG OMG, We need a *** more secuirty!"
The only thought about security I had was "***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
IIRC they had trained in h2h combat, and planned to slit one guys throat to keep the passengers scared/chaotic etc while they went for the pilots.
Point is they can still do it with like a myriad of things.
So:
Quote:
"***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
i'm not sure what kind of H2H combat prepares you for 100ish passengers
The first though I had when I heard the hijackers on 9/11 took over the plane with box cutters was why didn't the passengers fight back like that other plane? (forget the flight number, you know the one they made a tv movie about that crashed in PA)
My first thought WASN'T "OMG OMG, We need a *** more secuirty!"
The only thought about security I had was "***, now they're going to go crazy with new security measures that probably won't help anyway."
True, actually it happened on one of the planes no? and it still crashed and killing everyone but they at least avoided a lot of casualities by not crashing in a building killing more people which was the good thing to do.
While being a nice act, anyone would prefer avoid being in that type of situation I guess so it's hard to find a balance.
I'd rather go down knowing only we would die, instead of a whole lot more people dying, when faced in a hostage situation, it's never a good idea to not question their demands.
Yes, if I am an imbecile for caring more about others and my own life than having a nail clipper/shampoo confiscated, I rather be an imbecile.
Please!! Just please help me understand how not having nail clippers - and how spending any money on doing keeping them off planes- saves lives!!
I won't, and I don't think that any one else on "my side" will either, try to say there should be no security, or that there isn't some good things being done. The idea is to get rid of the pointless crap. And if that happened, oh wow, hey! That frees up people, money, and other resources to work on more of the GOOD STUFF! OMFG what a concept.
I'd rather go down knowing only we would die, instead of a whole lot more people dying, when faced in a hostage situation, it's never a good idea to not question their demands.
For sure.
I still wonder what it was like. I mean, knowing what we know now about what was happening, it's easy to say (and be right) that simple numbers should have been able to pretty easily overwhelm the terrorists - armed or not. Was it just the passengers believing that everything would be ok, if they just remain calm? It's such a sad situation.
Yes, if I am an imbecile for caring more about others and my own life than having a nail clipper/shampoo confiscated, I rather be an imbecile.
Please!! Just please help me understand how not having nail clippers - and how spending any money on doing keeping them off planes- saves lives!!
I won't, and I don't think that any one else on "my side" will either, try to say there should be no security, or that there isn't some good things being done. The idea is to get rid of the pointless crap. And if that happened, oh wow, hey! That frees up people, money, and other resources to work on more of the GOOD STUFF! OMFG what a concept.
But but but.. our pointless crap puts us at ease!
That's all people really want. When something awful happens (hopefully not ;/), fingers will be pointed either way.
Yes, if I am an imbecile for caring more about others and my own life than having a nail clipper/shampoo confiscated, I rather be an imbecile.
Please!! Just please help me understand how not having nail clippers - and how spending any money on doing keeping them off planes- saves lives!!
I won't, and I don't think that any one else on "my side" will either, try to say there should be no security, or that there isn't some good things being done. The idea is to get rid of the pointless crap. And if that happened, oh wow, hey! That frees up people, money, and other resources to work on more of the GOOD STUFF! OMFG what a concept.
the other thing is, like i said, the passengers thought they were going to live through the situation because that's how all hijackings ended before
i think an attempt to hijack a plane today would end very differently
that said, as jearik mentioned in another thread, that's one of the reasons terrorist networks won't try that tack again anytime soon
much cheaper and easier to move on to the next idea in the endless list of things we don't have security procedures for yet
yay for spending billions of dollars to protect us against all the things the terrorists already crossed off their list of things to try
It is in fact the opposite, if someone you knew died in 9/11 would you still say "*** security I rather die than being screened"?
And if you were sexually abused as a kid, would you want a TSA agents hands all over your 12 yo daughter? Or even worse, if your child has been sexually abused before, would you want them to have a complete stranger touching them like that?
Yes, if I am an imbecile for caring more about others and my own life than having a nail clipper/shampoo confiscated, I rather be an imbecile.
Please!! Just please help me understand how not having nail clippers - and how spending any money on doing keeping them off planes- saves lives!!
I won't, and I don't think that any one else on "my side" will either, try to say there should be no security, or that there isn't some good things being done. The idea is to get rid of the pointless crap. And if that happened, oh wow, hey! That frees up people, money, and other resources to work on more of the GOOD STUFF! OMFG what a concept.
the other thing is, like i said, the passengers thought they were going to live through the situation because that's how all hijackings ended before
i think an attempt to hijack a plane today would end very differently
that said, as jearik mentioned in another thread, that's one of the reasons terrorist networks won't try that tack again anytime soon
much cheaper and easier to move on to the next idea in the endless list of things we don't have security procedures for yet
yay for spending billions of dollars to protect us against all the things the terrorists already crossed off their list of things to try
indeed, the money would be better spent overseas trying to get the people in the countries the insurgents flourish running a propaganda campaign against the insurgents, that's how you stop planes from blowing up, not by violating people's rights.
Don't worry scared little people. Your loving government will assure you of your safety and only steal you civil liberties in small percents so that the majority of dip shits dumb enough to believe them won't be overly alarmed.
What freedom are you losing by being picked and having to pass throught a scanner? The freedom of getting on a plane without being scanned? What about the guy who wants the freedom to get on a plane with weapons :O
It is in fact the opposite, if someone you knew died in 9/11 would you still say "*** security I rather die than being screened"?
And if you were sexually abused as a kid, would you want a TSA agents hands all over your 12 yo daughter? Or even worse, if your child has been sexually abused before, would you want them to have a complete stranger touching them like that?
I'm probably going to come off sounding like a complete idiot, so if I do, I apologize in advance.
I have to take a variety of medication every day for various reasons, and a couple are really hard on organs of mine. I'm supposed to avoid radiation as best I can (well aware it's everywhere) and try to not accelerate any damage my insides take. That being said, earlier in life I was abused and raped by an old boyfriend. I'm very, very, very sensitive to silly things, and am pretty much scared of my own shadow as a result.
I go to America every year, to see friends and people I consider to be family. (gogo LGBT) A patdown outside the clothes I can deal with...I don't like it, but security is an important thing to have. I've read horrible stories of popped ostomy bags, but even worse for me (I don't have an ostomy bag, thank god) I read about TSA people putting their hands between peoples underwear and skin and essentially feeling their way around down there. No matter how much I mentally prepare myself for that, I'm going to cry. I'll probably get even more advanced screening as a result, being all suspicious and whatnot (>______>) and really, the entire idea just scares the hell out of me.
I won't even get into the tampon story. Blugh.
I'm happy they're trying to protect us, and will try to treat them with dignity and respect, knowing they're just doing their job and all..but I really do feel they're crossing a line. That's just me, though.
I also notice I'm not reading anything anywhere about...do they change their policies on what sex rubs you down, depending on your sexual preference? What about Transgendered individuals? Which sex pats them down? I'm sure a M->F wouldn't really be comfortable with a man rubbin them down there, and vice versa for a F->M.
Don't worry scared little people. Your loving government will assure you of your safety and only steal you civil liberties in small percents so that the majority of dip shits dumb enough to believe them won't be overly alarmed.
calm down republitard
Genius, you have completely discredited anything I have ever said or will ever say again, you win sir. You are now the omnipotent infallible *** ape of the day, wear your uni-brow proudly as the mantle of your absolute superiority.
Don't worry scared little people. Your loving government will assure you of your safety and only steal you civil liberties in small percents so that the majority of dip shits dumb enough to believe them won't be overly alarmed.
calm down republitard
Genius, I have completely discredited anything I have ever said or will ever say again, you win sir. You are now the omnipotent infallible *** ape of the day, wear your uni-brow proudly as the mantle of your absolute superiority.
I'm probably going to come off sounding like a complete idiot, so if I do, I apologize in advance.
I have to take a variety of medication every day for various reasons, and a couple are really hard on organs of mine. I'm supposed to avoid radiation as best I can (well aware it's everywhere) and try to not accelerate any damage my insides take. That being said, earlier in life I was abused and raped by an old boyfriend. I'm very, very, very sensitive to silly things, and am pretty much scared of my own shadow as a result.
I go to America every year, to see friends and people I consider to be family. (gogo LGBT) A patdown outside the clothes I can deal with...I don't like it, but security is an important thing to have. I've read horrible stories of popped ostomy bags, but even worse for me (I don't have an ostomy bag, thank god) I read about TSA people putting their hands between peoples underwear and skin and essentially feeling their way around down there. No matter how much I mentally prepare myself for that, I'm going to cry. I'll probably get even more advanced screening as a result, being all suspicious and whatnot (>______>) and really, the entire idea just scares the hell out of me.
I won't even get into the tampon story. Blugh.
I'm happy they're trying to protect us, and will try to treat them with dignity and respect, knowing they're just doing their job and all..but I really do feel they're crossing a line. That's just me, though.
I also notice I'm not reading anything anywhere about...do they change their policies on what sex rubs you down, depending on your sexual preference? What about Transgendered individuals? Which sex pats them down? I'm sure a M->F wouldn't really be comfortable with a man rubbin them down there, and vice versa for a F->M.
The entire ordeal is beyond necessary and proper, and in your case I feel bad for you and would recommend coming in on an airport that doesn't use these idiotic and ineffective methods even if it requires more than 1 stop.