Trial Of The Magians: Samurai

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Trial of the Magians: Samurai
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 Quetzalcoatl.Dawnn
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dawnn 2010-03-23 23:34:10
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644>645>646>647>648>649>650>651 (focus: NMs)
Radennotachi DMG:89 Delay:450

644>645>646>652>653>654 (10 krabkatoa shells)
Kurodachi DMG:68 Delay:464 Occasionally attacks twice

644>645>646>652>653>655>656>657 (Simple monster killing)
Kurodachi DMG:40 Delay:464 Occasionally attacks twice

658>659>660>661>662>663 (Fire weather kills, flan x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 STR+4 Attack+15

658>659>660>661>664>665 (Fire additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Weakens attack +10

658>659>666>667>668>669 (Wind weather kills, morbol x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 AGI+4 Evasion+15

658>659>666>667>670>671 (Wind additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Impairs evasion +10

658>659>672>673>674>675 (Thunder weather kills, qutrub x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 DEX+4 Accuracy+12

658>659>672>673>676>677 (Thunder additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Lowers accuracy +10

658>659>678>679>680>681 (Light weather kills, aern x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 CHR+4 Magic Evasion +12

658>659>678>679>682>683 (Light additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Lowers magic evasion +10

658>684>685>686>687>688 (Ice weather kills, worm x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 INT+4 Magic Attack Bonus +7

658>684>685>686>689>690 (Ice additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Lowers magic attack +10

658>684>691>692>693>694 (Earth weather kills, sabotender x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 VIT+4 Physical damage taken -7%

658>684>691>692>695>696 (Earth additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Weakens defense +10

658>684>697>698>699>700 (Water weather kills, goobbue x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 MND+4 Magic Defense Bonus +7

658>684>697>698>701>702 (Water additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Lowers magic defense +10

658>684>703>704>705>706 (Dark weather kills, ahriman x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 MP+50 Magic Accuracy +12

658>684>703>704>707>708 (Dark additional effect procs)
Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Lowers magic accuracy +10

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


what will be your choice and why?

The ones i like:
Radennotachi DMG:89 Delay:450
Straight up damage, seems decent especially for a meikyo gk

644>645>646>652>653>654 (10 krabkatoa shells)
Kurodachi DMG:68 Delay:464 Occasionally attacks twice
sweet a higher damage multi-attack gk, however its only twice, instead of 2~3x such as soboro, hard to tell but i might just go for it, i happen to love this model of GK also

658>659>672>673>674>675 (Thunder weather kills, qutrub x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 DEX+4 Accuracy+12
i think this would be badass... dex and acc, totalling to 15 accuracy on a sword, i think it would be a very valid weapon for askar sams... i might just get one of these for hi-eva mobs.. but still omg.. the only downside is 81 damage :/




anyways list what you think would be cool/badass
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 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-03-23 23:41:06
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Personally im after....
Radennotachi DMG:89 Delay:450
Just from that base i got a feeling it i going to rival anything out there (looking at you Hagun) and even if it isnt better it will be just as good...maybe...who knows, im not a ffxi math geek maybe someone needs to get in here and do that? Or might just need to wait till someone gets it and parses it....anyay im going for it, i know Tachi: Rana with it will be INSANE =)

Currently killing Seww the Squidlimbed 1/4 kills so almost halfway there...pain in the *** but may just be worth it xD
 Siren.Talonn
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By Siren.Talonn 2010-03-23 23:45:03
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Keep in mind that these are the introduction paths. Last tier isn't open yet and it is possible that more will be added, making these even better
 Unicorn.Ducea
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By Unicorn.Ducea 2010-03-23 23:49:51
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658>659>660>661>662>663 (Fire weather kills, flan x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 STR+4 Attack+15
 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-03-23 23:50:52
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Yeah so when we get Raddenotachi with DMG:89 on it that may not be the last step...to upgrade that even further....... /byebye Amanomurakumo? Have to wait and see.
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 Bahamut.Satanas
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By Bahamut.Satanas 2010-03-23 23:56:23
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Thanks for the info ^^
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-03-23 23:56:59
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I like the Raden, cuz that dmg is sickly...

Efunotachi DMG:84 Delay:450 Additional effect: Weakens attack +10 is also pretty sick cuz its like a mini Amano....and of course the higher dmg "Joyeuse" style GK is nice, as is that high high acc+ one
 Lakshmi.Rylis
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By Lakshmi.Rylis 2010-03-24 01:50:33
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Valefor.Ryukuro said:
Yeah so when we get Raddenotachi with DMG:89 on it that may not be the last step...to upgrade that even further....... /byebye Amanomurakumo? Have to wait and see.

Well, Amano has upgrades, too.. So as your Raden goes up to 89, Amano goes to 95, I believe. With a higher rate of dps due to lower delay, as well.

Can't knock Amano's 20 acc, either. Or that Tachi: Kaiten helps to fix the lower delay.

Seems unlikely that SE would add further steps without also allowing them on relic.
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 Phoenix.Huwhuddep
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By Phoenix.Huwhuddep 2010-03-24 02:08:49
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Radennotachi DMG:89 Delay:450

I've been working on it for the last few hours.

The only tough parts seem to be the last two trials.

I'm interested to see how this will compare to hagun. At least my Sekkanokis will be happy lol.
 Gilgamesh.Cardinalgate
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By Gilgamesh.Cardinalgate 2010-03-24 02:23:39
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Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 STR+4 Attack+15

would be my pic since alot of WS use STR as a Damage mod
 Phoenix.Huwhuddep
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By Phoenix.Huwhuddep 2010-03-24 02:27:10
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Gilgamesh.Cardinalgate said:
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 STR 4 Attack 15

would be my pic since alot of WS use STR as a Damage mod

I don't wanna rebuild my 6-hit lol.

Just out of curiosity would the 4STR and 15ATT be better or worse than the extra base dmg from Radden.

I'm not good with numbers and FFXI, someone help meh out.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-03-24 02:34:58
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well you can get that 4 str and 15 att in a LOT of other ways, but you can't make up for 8 base dmg...idk just my 2 cents, take it how you want
 Lakshmi.Wardens
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By Lakshmi.Wardens 2010-03-24 02:48:18
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I would like to try that double attack version with the higher base DMG.
 Phoenix.Huwhuddep
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By Phoenix.Huwhuddep 2010-03-24 03:13:33
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Ifrit.Eikechi said:
well you can get that 4 str and 15 att in a LOT of other ways, but you can't make up for 8 base dmg...idk just my 2 cents, take it how you want

I agree.

Although I'm not sure how exactly the two would parse against each other.

Grrrrr I dont wanna wait >.>
 Odin.Jakenstein
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By Odin.Jakenstein 2010-03-24 03:16:56
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I'm torn between uber soboro and dmg 89 GKT, got to do both of em and them weird ones also.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 03:32:39
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Quote:
what will be your choice and why?

The ones i like:
Radennotachi DMG:89 Delay:450
Straight up damage, seems decent especially for a meikyo gk
This has the potential of being an excellent GK, maybe even better than Hagun.
Did I said maybe? Let me take that back. I think it will be better than Hagun, altough it has to be seen if the damage increase will be noticeable or barely relevant. I also need to check which trials are requested, to see if they're easy, frustrating, boring or not.

Quote:
644>645>646>652>653>654 (10 krabkatoa shells)
Kurodachi DMG:68 Delay:464 Occasionally attacks twice
sweet a higher damage multi-attack gk, however its only twice, instead of 2~3x such as soboro, hard to tell but i might just go for it, i happen to love this model of GK also
People went all crazy for this GK supposing a joyeuse-like proc rate. This is all yet to be demonstrated of course.
It would take quite a good proc rate to be able to trump Hagun, but if we're talking of just beating Soboro, I guess there are more chances.
I guess it also depends what you use Soboro for tho. Do you use it just for TPgain? Like for SAM/RNG or SAM/DNC? Then Kurodachi is going to need quite a solid proc rate to be better than Soboro.
Do you use it just to have fun and mess around? Then this weapon definitely have big chances, with the higher base damage.

Quote:
658>659>672>673>674>675 (Thunder weather kills, qutrub x200)
Efunotachi DMG:81 Delay:437 DEX+4 Accuracy+12
i think this would be badass... dex and acc, totalling to 15 accuracy on a sword, i think it would be a very valid weapon for askar sams... i might just get one of these for hi-eva mobs.. but still omg.. the only downside is 81 damage :/
Ehr... what?
This weapon looks ***lol.
How exactely is this better than an Onimaru? Because of the slightly higher accuracy? Sure, because Samurai is notoriously a job in serious need of Acc while TPing, right? :D
Or, I dunno, I still need to drink my coffee, maybe I'm missing something important.
But really, it doesn't seem anything special to me.
Of all the combinations I've seen so far only the first and the second linked in this post seem to be potentially good.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 03:49:56
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If you crunch the numbers on Radennotachi, Hagun is still about even or very, very slightly better, depending on how much dmg you attribute to ws phase v.s. tp phase.

But in any case, it's so close it may not actually matter. If you don't have 2m to shell out for Hagun, this is seriously worth looking at. And even if you do, this will easily trump Hagun for Meikyo. Swap it in, 2hr, blast away, swap back to Hagun.

Also, there are future updates coming. If Raden gets improved even further, Hagun will likely be flat-out dead. (I can't believe I just said that. o.O)

I doubt SE is going to nerf Amano, though. It'll probably keep getting comparable upgrades or better.

My eyebrows are raising at the Occ. att twice Kurodachi, though. Depending on the proc rate, that could be really interesting.
 Phoenix.Huwhuddep
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By Phoenix.Huwhuddep 2010-03-24 03:57:12
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I bet by the time i finish my Radenn, hagun will have dropped to 500k ; ;
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 03:59:30
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Kanjirou said:
If you crunch the numbers on Radennotachi, Hagun is still about even or very, very slightly better, depending on how much dmg you attribute to ws phase v.s. tp phase.
I haven't done any math numbers, was just using Futsu no Mitama in my mind, as a matter of comparison.
I recall reading a parse long time ago which was showing how Futsu no Mitama was better than Hagun, even though the difference wasn't that "huge".
From there I checked Raden no tachi's 89 base damage and compared it to Futsu no mitama's 84 base damage. Sure, Futsu has an awesome STR+8 latent which is active during WS, and we all know how STR is important for YGK's mods, but so is 5 base damage, and I judged 5 base damage to be slightly better than 8 STR.
So yeah, I just made this quick comparison in my mind.
Supposing the assumption that Futsu no mitama is slightly better than Hagun, then Raden no tachi should be as well.
I dunno if something changed lately, the Futsu parses I read were really old and possibly unaccurate as well.
Edit: of course I was just comparing the damage. Forgot the 5hit build thing that you can reach with Futsu (480 delay) but you of course cannot with Raden. In terms of parsing though I have no clue how much of a DPS % impact it would have. You swing slightly slower but get 100% tp with one less hit, which makes you WS slightly more often compared to a 6hit build with a 450delay weapon. This aspect too is part of Futsu's being better than Hagun. Raden doesn't have this so you're right, maybe it's not "slightly better" than Hagun as I previously imagined.


I share your eyebrow raising for Kurodachi, I see some potential in that but as I said before it depends on a lot of stuff. As a pure "TP machine" (/RNG, /DNC and some "for fun" setups like that) Soboro might still be better, according to the proc rate of Kuro.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 04:08:41
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For 2-handers, 8 Str = 6 atk, and then like you say there are the Y/G/K mods. Futsu should still come out on top of Raden.
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 04:26:05
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8 str is active only during WS, and we all know how you're att-capped already on merit mobs with Gekko (with pretty common buffs/food), so attack does close to zero if not plain zero, especially a small amount like 6.
Futsu should still be better than Raden because of the 5hit build.
But anyway I wasn't saying Raden > Futsu, I was rather saying:

Futsu > Hagun (even if only marginally)
Futsu >= Raden
Hence Raden > Hagun?

If we don't consider the 5hit thing what I just wrote should be correct. I have no means to tell how big of an impact does the 5hit build have on your overall DPS % though, and without that it's still hard to understand how Raden really compares to Hagun.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 04:29:31
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I stand corrected. Ya, it should be really interesting to see where Raden fits in here.
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By Phoenix.Huwhuddep 2010-03-24 04:35:01
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I think it at least warrants the amount of time needed to finish it.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 04:36:14
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Someone should post parser results to this thread as soon as they have it.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 04:41:42
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While I agree it's parsed data that matters in the end, it's very hard to get accurate data, too many variables from your average parsing user (I include myself in this group, I don't have a "scientific" enough approach when it comes down to these things).

I'd rather see some theorycrafting before, to see how the weapon is supposed to work in theory, in an "ideal" environment.

We would need to evaluate the 14 additional damage (compared to Hagun). How much DPS% would this produce? Would it be superior to Hagun's 100% TP bonus? (I'm leaning to say yes, but it's just my impression).
And, how much behind Futsu does Raden falls? Does the 5 additional damage compensate the 8STR? (I think so?)
All of this without forgetting that Futsu still has the 5hit thing over Raden, but it's hard to tell how much this converts in terms of DPS %.
 Phoenix.Huwhuddep
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By Phoenix.Huwhuddep 2010-03-24 04:41:48
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I'm planning on getting at least the first three quests out of the way tonight.

I know I'll need help on the last two so it may still be a few days for me >.>

Seems most people are going for the occ. attacks twice GK though...
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 04:46:46
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Yeah, I'm working on Raden too. After that I'll probably start Kurodachi. I kind of want something I *know* will be solid (def. better than onimaru) before I put a whole bunch of effort into something else that's a complete risk. I mean, until we know the proc rate on Kurodachi, it's really hit or miss. Honestly, it could end up being anything: really awesome, just mediocre, or total crap. I'm hoping it's really awesome, but you never know.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 04:49:21
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Phoenix.Huwhuddep said:
Seems most people are going for the occ. attacks twice GK though...
Because:
1) It's cooler :p
2) Despite it being an old weapon, a lot of people still do not have Soboro

After Hagun having been the betterest best of GKs for so long, people are probably reluctant to believe there could be a new option potentially better than Hagun, especially when so many GKs that came out over the last years were promoted as "AMG! Better than Hagun!" but they all failed in the end.

As for Kurodachi all of our talk is useless until we find an approximate % of the proc rate. It surely has the potential to be a relatively better option than Soboro (but not necessarily), I doubt it can be better than Hagun on HNMs, have no clue what to expect on merit pts.
Talking just my "reasonable expectations" here eh, not about math or objective data.
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By Maeya 2010-03-24 04:50:21
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Can you do more than one? I can't decide!
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 04:53:58
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You can. You can do as many separate ones at a time as you like. You just can't do multiple quests on the same weapon at once. (You have to go step by step.)
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