The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

Previous posters wondered why people would try to catch a single KI run instead of going to double or tripple KI runs. Those players we talking about do have a job ready for odyssey, but only 1, not multiple. It's a explanation for said phenomenon.

My point is if you only have one job to take to Odyssey, you are not sufficiently prepared.

I'd say people see BRD, COR, GEO, WHM, and tanks to be boring, stressful, unfun, or have other negative feelings about them.

This is why you're considered "biting the bullet" or "taking one for the team" by playing these jobs. People who say these phrases don't like those jobs, so they see someone playing those jobs as doing the group a favor by taking the "shitty" jobs and letting other people play the "fun" jobs. This is the biting the bullet part.

I, for one, find tanks, healers, and support to be the most fun jobs because they're more dynamic, engaging, and there's more decision-making involved. I don't think I'm making any sacrifices by playing them, but I see why people feel this way. I also don't mind "biting the bullet" to play whatever job is needed, TBH; that's part of being a team and doing a group activity.

With regard to 1 vs multiple KIs, frankly I think attempting Mboze or Arebati in 1 KI is suicide, so you're gonna have to do at least SOME bosses in multi-ki, including Bumba V25, so you might as well get used to the idea of multi-ki fights and figure your ***out. I think multi-KI Ongo is also 1000x easier than single-KI and basically nobody should attempt single-KI Ongo, it's just asking for problems.

Part of the reason someone on Asura might be reluctant to do multi-KI though is because then you have to find 5 PUGs whose jobs and 1hrs all line up, plus it increases the chance that they suck at their job by (at least) double.


100% this. You want the gear (augments), ya gotta play ball. If you're unwilling to engage with what's necessary to clear it, don't be surprised when you don't get the rewards.

Yes.


Because if they stick with their main, which is probably a DD, then the chance of them finding a party at all, is much lower than the success rate of a well geared support that can get into a party regularly.

But then also...

How many t3 v20s were won without at least 2 out of 3 BRD/COR/GEO begin present? Maybe 2? Supports are always there.

At least 2 don't need tanks and sometimes they only hold adds. Some use PLD instead of a healer. So you can't even count on healer getting a spot.

And if you're all about making the success rate go up, then it makes total sense that you don't want to make a mythic for BRD or bring it. Someone else can do it, right? Those kind of players are just laying around waiting for you. Again if you're arguing efficiency and then saying you don't want to make an efficient choice, it doesn't line up.

People do v20 in 2 ki? First I heard of it. Guess whatever gets the W

Comparing a support job's role being easier vs a tank or healer has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the content can be cleared without them. Two entirely different things. That's not minimizing their contribution, that's just an assessment of the degree of difficulty for the job roles. Tanks and healers are harder and far more stressful/involved than a support job. That's not minimizing, that's stating the obvious. That also doesn't mean the easier-to-play job isn't necessary for clearing it.


Which Gaol Boss requires a Carnwenhan on BRD? I didn't need to play BRD for any of my clear, but I've played BRD for a few V20s. Carnwenhan isn't a requirement. You're going to put up SV songs, and then Nitro to extend them. I don't know the duration difference, but you're going to get a RD reset to re-apply songs at some point, and if you get a WC, you might get your SP back anyways. So SV songs last 2min, reapply for 10+ without Carn. Probably takes 90 seconds to buff? so thats 90 seconds left in the actual fight, hardly enough to constitute a hard rule for the dagger. The extra duration on Carnwenhan isn't as meaningful as you make it seem for these fights. But if someone is dead set on taking one, that's fine too. Even in segs, the difference between the two is an extra group of Nostos trash, it's really not that huge. If you're including Mythic's Macc, chances are you're not landing any Threnody or Elegy without Nitro anyways, so that's kind of moot.

I'm arguing about efficiency for others, not myself, because I already have my clears. And I don't need to make a mythic for one job (unless I feel like it) because I have 20 others well-geared, and I played most of them for all of my clears. I set up my own clears as well, but I didn't need to play BRD for it myself. I could have, but didn't need to.

Do you actually have 20 jobs mastered and geared?

Xevi possibly, depending how long your fight goes, because if it goes to 15m, your SV songs will have worn off, but a BRD with Carn can provide SV songs for the entire fight.

Ditto every other T3. You can get SV songs for 15 minutes without needing a 5 WC.

If any T3 go to the end of the timer and there's a BRD there, (s)he needs to have a Carn.

Even outside of that, lots of fights involve debuffing and if you have a Carn, you'll have that SV debuff up for longer.

Also: BRD should be using Carn to melee for Xevioso.

So yeah...I'd say any non-Bumba V25 fight, the BRD should have a Carn or you're (at least potentially, if not guaranteed) *** your team over.

19, I miscounted, but I plan on finishing PUP, WHM, and PLD soon

We used a PUP on 3 KI clear
2nd Party > had the PUP hold the NM
Used all the pet jobs on 2nd party
BST/DRG/SMN last were a DNC and whatever damage type needed

PUP was pretty key for that clear

Assuming the game doesn't die soon skipping odyssey isn't going to be a option in the mid to long run. Doubt they'll make sets like nyame obsolete anytime soon.tanks and healers maybe, but more decision making on supports?
In most parties I typically see supports asking leader what buffs and debuffs to cast and in odyssey you don't even get the freedom to drop a backup cure due to the lack of support job.

In most cases DPS has the most freedom over their gameplan. If skillchains aren't required and mob doesn't have a "react" move they can decide when to do what.
On tanks, heals and to a extent supports the game dictates when to do what. You constantly have to monitor buff/debuff bars and chat log, which is probably part of why they are less popular.

Anyone able to land a 8-9min Earth Threnody on Ongo v25?

Yeah that seems like you'd be fine to not worry about needing BRD as a ticket into a fight if you're organizing.

I only have 13 with MLs. My only priorities are bringing RDM or DRG to fights they should be present for and after that idc. It's all kinda the same. Figure out what you need to do, make changes, repeat until you get it.

Well, you play with low-quality players so I guess. I am the one choosing all the buffs. Plus things like: I got Dematerialize back, when should I use it? I got Blaze back, but not Ecliptic, how should I take advantage of that? I got NiTro and Marcato back, I should use that to put a Marcato Elegy on the add to slow it down, or maybe I should use it for a stronger Threnody on the boss. For COR, deciding when to stop on a roll, when to use snake eye, which roll gets the Crooked, how to spend QD charges, etc.


For example...? What decisions does a WAR make in say: Kalunga, an ambu, a seg farm, Omen, or whatever content you want.

Which weapon to wear? For difficult content, there's basically one answer.

Which WS to use? Same as weapon.

What TP to use your WS? There's a correct answer, you're not deciding on the fly

What SC to make for fetter procs? It's already decided before you go in

Should you use Retaliation/Restraint/Berserk? Yes.

When to use Warcry? Already decided before you go in.

...I'm really not sure what dynamic and engaging decisions a WAR is making, TBH.

If you're pretending a DDs decision wether to go for magical or physical dmg WS is no real decision because it's dictated by the mobs resistance then you have to apply same logic for the supports and their choice of buffs.
Not to mention it would be counter productive if you as a support decide to cast physical buffs when the leader built the setup around magic dmg.

I haven't done any odyssey and there certainly are battles with percise liturgy in place to follow but when a battle is tightly timed and figured out there is usually also a optimal way for heals, tanks and supports to follow.

But peoples preference for DPS isn't limited to certain content, it's universal.

A DPS decision making operates within the time limit of the individual content, if the key targets are down befor the timer is up they did good enough, regardless of what WS they used or when they timed which ability.

For tanks and healers there is not much room for decision making when HP drops or hate is lost.

There are mob moves that force a correct reaction for every class, but generaly speaking they are less frequent for DPS than for the other classes so they have more freedom in what they do between those reaction checks.

So why post in an odyssey thread as a testimonial about how jobs work?

V25 WS wall makes dps super straight forward. You're either doing it correctly or you're not.

Because the discussion took a slight derail into some classes are beeing viewed as taking one for the team vs others as beeing selfish and why it is that way, which is not exclusive to odyssey.


Where is the big difference between mechanics that dictate a DPS when to WS and which WS to pick and mechanics that dictate a healer when to heal and which heal to pick?

On one side you pretend WAR poping berserk and warcry is no decision making because the fight dictates when to optimaly do so but if GEO/BRD/COR pop fury/minuet/chaos it's suddenly a strategic decision.

Also odyssey is not strictly V25, I assume at least the lower tiers leave room for human error and slight deviation from the "optimal" liturgy.

Of similar note, I have done 3KI and 2KI v25 Ongo, albeit long and yes "unnecessary", 3KI made the encounter far more simple and much easier imo. PUP held Ongo indefinitely on 2nd KI and everyone murdered the first add. Easy peasy, no nonsense to contend with from 75-40 and only single regen post 40. The biggest challenge of the entire debacle is really the 18 jobs geared well enough.

Have you ever played a healing job in FFXI? Genuine question because it really seems like you haven't.

Here's what a WHM might have to evaluate, for example:

-Multiple debuffs that each have different removal spells, which do you do first?
-Evaluate the HP of the entire party. Should you do a single-target cure (for cureskin) or an AoE one (to hit more than one person)
-In addition to the above, evaluate who is tanking mobs and how many mobs, so you know if they need cures or if they just finished killing their mob and are fine
-Are your buffs going down soon (Auspice, Barspells, hastes, boost-stat, weather, regen, etc.)? Do you have time to recast them between cures?
-Is it worth taking the time to apply debuffs to the enemies? Do you have time to do this? Which is the most important debuff, and which ones land on this mob?
-How's your MP doing?
-How's the tank/RDM/GEO's MP doing, anyone might need a devotion soon? Who needs that devotion the most? Can you afford to get in close enough to use it without getting popped?
-Any big hits coming in soon (fetters, mob going to start using double TP moves soon)? Does the boss have haste on?

You have to evaluate anywhere between 2 and 10 of these things every time you get ready to cast a spell, to pick which one you're casting, on whom, and what you're going to do after that.

Compared to a WAR with a 4m3s long Berserk with 4m10s cooldown, trying to decide if he should have Berserk up during a battle, is quite frankly insulting. "Hmmm, should I hit it with the Sword, or the Great Axe?" "Should I use Savage Blade, or would it be better to use Vorpal Blade?"


If the decisions you're making are just for *** around because the job responsibilities are so laughably easy that you can do whatever sub-optimal nonsense you want, I don't think you're making a very strong argument for a dynamic, complicated job with lots of tough decisions to make...

"I don't have to play optimally on my job" doesn't jive very well with "I have a lot of important decisions to make"

The insulting part is your disingenuity.

It's also very convenient to compare it to a DD with a limited toolkit like WAR rather than DRK or BLU who are also considered DPS.

There are luas and addons for this type of decision making because the answers are so predetermined and flow charty that it's clear befor you set a foot in the battlefield.
The same could probably be said for most of these examples.

Your ignorance of odyssey is showing. Where as Buukki's is clearly not. He has a different perspective and circumstance because he has a bunch of jobs leveled, is organizing and has no problem finding supports, so his posts are actually very interesting. You have generalizations and they aren't landing.

I had 6 jobs when I started odyssey. I cleared V0 with a party of 3 people and we picked up a 4th in the T3s. When we got done with Bumba we realized we needed to do at least V1s because we didn't have anyone taking us into higher clears for RP because no one had access, so we did it again. Once we had all gotten our Nyame to r15 one of us quit and the other 3 decided to team up with other people we knew that came back to the game.

After doing the fights myself I decided it was fine to add more jobs because they would actually add value to my group even if I don't value the jobs. The fights were challenging enough that I was willing to work on adding more supports vs the trusts we had backing us up. I'm up to 13 jobs and my last one I'm working on is BRD because we've had the same BRD for a year and he should get a break from it if/when he wants it. I don't feel like I'm biting the bullet on making it because I'm doing it for people who have also done things for me. The majority of the discussion is Buukki's perspective on not understanding the concept of biting the bullet applying to support and I can actually see how he could have that now. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of people who have been forced into support roles and how miserable it can make them. Most either escape support roles or quit because they spent all their time and effort making a job that lets other people have a fun time at the expense of their own.

You don't hear people who are upset because they spent too much gil on their DDs and all they wanted to play was supports. But the other way around is common enough.

People in our group often say "rest of us are just support" which I never understood. 2 dds and 4 support, nothing just about it. You are the team buddy.

Guys we all know WHM/NIN with a Kraken Club
Wrecks anything ^^

Add spell delay to that, you cant just recast even after a quickcast, there's a 3 second lock. So if a WHM cast an erase and you take a serious hit, you are at least 5-8 sec away from first cure.


Team is only as good as the weakest link, covering is part of life.

Amen to that

At the end of the day, if people dont step up, noone goes forward, did a BRD for 1 fight, same for GEO or COR and many others, my latest RDM because the RDM is taking a break. 3 weeks of omen, cards dyna is what i asked, and deliver. Asking question, left and right, reading, taking some bullet for no reason, yeah that I (and others) can do. Some just cannot.

As funny as it is, at work today i did an analogy in front of the union boss, if you play video games, you know there people that you just cant play with, there's nothing you can do, they just dont get it, same with staff. he laughed

V25 Arebati clear

https://youtu.be/qMIVDJHljXg?si=3s-gTqM6Ez54dlzr

Oh, are we allowed to advertise bots on ffxiah now?

Bot or not, he handle arebati in 1 KI, kudo

Arebati was at 75% when he walked in, and instantly popped an add. He didn't do ***in 1 KI, he just didn't record the first KI/put it in the video

"I'm bulletproof, nothing to lose
Fire away, fire away
Ricochet, you take your aim
Fire away, fire away
You shoot me down, but I won't fall"

I see what you did there.

Ngl silmaril is pretty impressive and cg on ur bot beating arebati pretty cool. Still wonder if the people who bot clears can actually win them or do they just need the bot because they forget to bring skill. Of course we will never know these people won't jump in groups with u and play a job. And yes of course his mpaca goes to r30 of course so good stuff. Still sad most the player base can not beat these fights to the point scripts and bots were needed :( but who are we fooling some of the first clears were scripted.