A Swing And A Myth: Guide To Liberator
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A Swing and a Myth: Guide to Liberator
Whenever we would do triple RP runs, we actually tried to get the boss's as low as reasonably possible for the bonus RP. If your going to be stuck in there for an hour, might as well make the most of it instead of just AFKing. Every NM was something people needed, we didn't do "6% then afk".
Asura.Saevel said: » Whenever we would do triple RP runs, we actually tried to get the boss's as low as reasonably possible for the bonus RP. If your going to be stuck in there for an hour, might as well make the most of it instead of just AFKing. Every NM was something people needed, we didn't do "6% then afk". We do the same. Every 5% is 18 RP. I think it also effects the bonus amp as well. If you are in there, might as well push it. Taint said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Whenever we would do triple RP runs, we actually tried to get the boss's as low as reasonably possible for the bonus RP. If your going to be stuck in there for an hour, might as well make the most of it instead of just AFKing. Every NM was something people needed, we didn't do "6% then afk". We do the same. Every 5% is 18 RP. I think it also effects the bonus amp as well. If you are in there, might as well push it. Yep and since all three NM's are usually T3's that someone needs RP for, we end up putting together some really wacky setups. Thus DRK using Father Time with +25 SBII and Quietus to slowly whittle away Mboze's HP while a random SMN or BLU keeps TP under control.
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Taint said: » Impact gives ~2500-2900TP, use it abuse it. nattack said: » Taint said: » Impact gives ~2500-2900TP, use it abuse it. Yep exactly. Its pretty awesome in settings like sortie to always start with 3k. Impact > Absorb STR > break a mob then go up. Asura.Saevel said: » When you are down to your last NM for triple RP charge and need the DRK to limit TP feed on Mboze. Dagon + Calad with the much lower delay than scythe works equally well. I've done both as the main DRK in my Ody static. I did buy Father Time because of MBoze though. Cerberus.Kylos said: » I doubt Father Time being better than a Liberator R15 in any scenario. Insurgency is strong, and getting to 3k does not take long with good buffs. Mythic Bonus Insurgency and Cross Reaper are roughly the same damage. Yeah, you lose the strong Insurgency without the mythic but so what? Stick to a Cross Reaper combo. Insurgency as a four hit is also generally less reliable like most multi-hit WS because the acc bonus is only on the first hit and so it's not front loaded on the big first hit like CR or Savage Blade. Taint said: » Impact gives ~2500-2900TP, use it abuse it. Before a pull? yeah okay. Situational. Impact has a stupid long casting time (12 seconds before fast cast). Getting that down to what like 3 sec in max casting is still an eternity for melee in the middle of a fight and a straight dps loss. I can get 3k in 3 secs with father time, no problem. You lose dps holding TP to get AM3 up and it doesn't overwrite itself. I played with my Liberator alot, getting AM3 up after it wears off is annoying. At least with Calad, even AM1 or AM2 still gives you some occasional triple dmg bonus. You HAVE to get AM3 up on a mythic. I'm not saying one is better than the other. Father Time is just way more fun as a multi-hitter if that's your bag. I do wish it was 528 delay but 513 is manageable for whatever X-hit build you're shooting for. Mythic AM3s should overwrite themselves and it SUCKS it doesn't imo. That should of been done ages ago. Tell us you're botting and using autows without telling us you bot and use autows.
Humans look at the AM timer and know how to time minimal AM3 loss, bots dont.
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I don't even own a bot but thanks for your bizarre comment?
In case it wasn't incredibly obvious: If it takes you 5 seconds to get 3k TP, then when your AM3 has 5 seconds left, you stop WSing.
Then when it wears off, you use a 3k WS and have AM3 again. Or as others have said, if you have a few seconds to stop (right before a sortie basement boss, on the baby mobs outside) you cast an Impact and get your 3k TP. Sure, this costs you 3-5 seconds, but tbh that might not even matter at all because your team might be behind you. Or you can just save up TP on the basement mini-NM before the boss. With some planning and a half a brain, it's not difficult at all to keep up AM3, unless you're a bot. Is bot the new troll comment? I think I find troll less insulting lol.
None of what you said takes away from the fact the Father Time Path B tosses all that waiting out the window. Congrats on waiting 5 more secs? All I hear from people who disagree is "I'm too cheap to buy an SU5". Anyone with both want to opine? MYFIC AM3 BAD CUZ MUS COUNT SEKUNDZ
Carbuncle.Nynja said: » MYFIC AM3 BAD CUZ MUS COUNT SEKUNDZ Should I sub SAM and have Hasso up while I'm casting Impact? "While Hasso is active, a 50% increase in casting and recast time will be applied to any and all magic, songs and Ninjutsu." Must be fun to take advice from ffxiah... Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: » Carbuncle.Nynja said: » MYFIC AM3 BAD CUZ MUS COUNT SEKUNDZ Should I sub SAM and have Hasso up while I'm casting Impact? "While Hasso is active, a 50% increase in casting and recast time will be applied to any and all magic, songs and Ninjutsu." Must be fun to take advice from ffxiah... I mean, if you're WICKED SMAHT you could cancel Hasso, then cast it, then reapply Hasso, since it has a 5m duration and 1m cooldown. Need any more advice? Not sure how "follow up attacks" work, but I assume it works like Double Attack, so you get a 50% chance of a double attack after taking any multi-hit stats in to account.
Mythic aftermath gives 40% Occasionally attacks twice, and 20% Occasionally attacks thrice, so the TP feed is obviously superior. Gearing for STP with Quad/Triple attack, to go with the 20% OAThrice, and any time those don't trigger, the 40% OATwice almost ensures no one-hit melee rounds. You can't say that about Father Time, where you'd need decent multi-hit stats to feel confident that won't happen, along with being able to stack STP. Maybe with fighter's roll? But that won't happen often. As Saevel said, the weapon is well-suited in the niche Subtle Blow situation, but let's not say it beats Liberator R15 in straight up damage. It will always be behind its TP flow, including the few seconds it takes to keep aftermath flowing. It wouldn't be miles behind, but it obviously is... unless you're playing with someone who can't time their AM3. I'm all for debating this, because we're all DRKs here, and I don't see the point in negatively arguing to the point nobody listens. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » I mean, if you're WICKED SMAHT you could cancel Hasso, then cast it, then reapply Hasso, since it has a 5m duration and 1m cooldown. Need any more advice? Sounds painful.... yikes. Cerberus.Kylos said: » Not sure how "follow up attacks" work, but I assume it works like Double Attack, so you get a 50% chance of a double attack after taking any multi-hit stats in to account. No, it's completely different. It has a 50% chance to add a hit to whatever your existing attack round was going to be. Downside is it doesn't proc on WS like AM3 does but that only really matters for transfer WS like Entropy. https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Occasionally_Attacks_X_Times Cerberus.Kylos said: » the weapon is well-suited in the niche Subtle Blow situation, but let's not say it beats Liberator R15 in straight up damage. I never made this claim because I was trying to avoid controversy from the terrible DRKs who like to spread their terrible ideas. It's easier to use, more fun to use, great TP gain and damage output without excess TP feed. Excellent if you're farming an Ody run for points and you want to knock out trash mobs fast. If I’m looking for top tier damage output, I’m not using Father Time or Liberator R15. Yeah, so if you had a Quad attack, and got a follow up, you would do 5 hits in the melee round. 4 if you follow up a Triple Attack, and so on. It's good, but it's not as good as AM3s OAT 40/20. It is clearly a decent scythe for those who don't want to go through the slog of making a mythic, and are wanting something they can play with. And as you say, it is easier to use, which may suit some. And I don't see a problem with that, so long as it isn't costing anyone anything.
Agreed for the most part.
Again, AM3 should overwrite itself. It would put Mythics in a much better position.
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Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: » Agreed for the most part. Again, AM3 should overwrite itself. It would put Mythics in a much better position. Oh, absolutely. Although, as myself and others say, you can get used to this playstyle and make it so you are rarely losing time maintaining the aftermath. I also love casting magics, so having the strongest Absorbs makes Liberator the undisputed king, lol. Yeah, I know you can't spend too much time doing those, but it is nice when you can. Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: » AM3 does but that only matters for transfer WS like Insurgency. Insurgency is not a transfer fTP WS. If it was it would be doing 99k at 3000tp on almost anything with minimal buffs :) Yeah, you’re right. That should say Entropy. Fixed.
Cerberus.Kylos said: » It's good, but it's not as good as AM3s OAT 40/20. I mean, define 'good'. In full sakpata to maximize your defense, DT, Meva and MDB, Father time B has a higher tp gain rate than Lib AM3. If you are at 1.7 attacks per round with your multiattack, you are at 2.2 attacks per round for father time and only 2 attacks per round with lib am3 - right? You can gear for store TP with lib am3 without dropping your attacks per round as heavily, giving lib a solid lead in overall TP gain, but at a huge defensive cost (>250 meva, 200 or so def, not to mention MDB, DT meaning less required in other slots, status resist 15, more sb, counter 5). This is all before lower TP gain to the mob from SBII+25.. Shiva.Flowen said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » It's good, but it's not as good as AM3s OAT 40/20. I mean, define 'good'. In full sakpata to maximize your defense, DT, Meva and MDB, Father time B has a higher tp gain rate than Lib AM3. If you are at 1.7 attacks per round with your multiattack, you are at 2.2 attacks per round for father time and only 2 attacks per round with lib am3 - right? You can gear for store TP with lib am3 without dropping your attacks per round as heavily, giving lib a solid lead in overall TP gain, but at a huge defensive cost (>250 meva, 200 or so def, not to mention MDB, DT meaning less required in other slots, status resist 15, more sb, counter 5). This is all before lower TP gain to the mob from SBII+25.. Where are you getting 1.7 attacks/round from? I'm coming up with 1.47 (36 DA, 2 TA, 3 QA). With AM3 it's 1.91, with Father Time it would be 1.97, so it still has a (marginal) improvement, but that's a pretty minimal difference for a weapon that can't proc DA/TA during WS (assuming worst case scenario for Liberator) Impact is done on a trash mob before the boss if needed. I also sub DRG in sortie but hasso is easy to cancel for most casting situations. If AM is down and I can’t impact due to time or whatever then I just burn my jumps to 3000. It’s riskier since if you miss time them, you risk a 2 second delay.
AM can proc on WSs and jumps which benefits all WSs. Liberator also has the absorb benefit. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Shiva.Flowen said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » It's good, but it's not as good as AM3s OAT 40/20. I mean, define 'good'. In full sakpata to maximize your defense, DT, Meva and MDB, Father time B has a higher tp gain rate than Lib AM3. If you are at 1.7 attacks per round with your multiattack, you are at 2.2 attacks per round for father time and only 2 attacks per round with lib am3 - right? You can gear for store TP with lib am3 without dropping your attacks per round as heavily, giving lib a solid lead in overall TP gain, but at a huge defensive cost (>250 meva, 200 or so def, not to mention MDB, DT meaning less required in other slots, status resist 15, more sb, counter 5). This is all before lower TP gain to the mob from SBII+25.. Where are you getting 1.7 attacks/round from? I'm coming up with 1.47 (36 DA, 2 TA, 3 QA). With AM3 it's 1.91, with Father Time it would be 1.97, so it still has a (marginal) improvement, but that's a pretty minimal difference for a weapon that can't proc DA/TA during WS (assuming worst case scenario for Liberator) 36 DA is very low.. that's full sakpata and schere alone. Sailfi or Ioskeha, coiste, DA on ambu cape are all better options than the stp equiv without am3 and with sam's roll. Set I based 1.7 on was 60DA, 2TA, 3QA and punched into the old but gold OAX calculator
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » I'm coming up with 1.47 (36 DA, 2 TA, 3 QA). I think FT path B set would have more like 54%DA 2%TA 3%QA, so around ~1.64 APR before Follow Up and ~2.14 with it. (It's actually less if you consider 95% hit rate cap, but I assumed we are talking about APR on non missed hits). Shiva.Flowen said: » Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Shiva.Flowen said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » It's good, but it's not as good as AM3s OAT 40/20. I mean, define 'good'. In full sakpata to maximize your defense, DT, Meva and MDB, Father time B has a higher tp gain rate than Lib AM3. If you are at 1.7 attacks per round with your multiattack, you are at 2.2 attacks per round for father time and only 2 attacks per round with lib am3 - right? You can gear for store TP with lib am3 without dropping your attacks per round as heavily, giving lib a solid lead in overall TP gain, but at a huge defensive cost (>250 meva, 200 or so def, not to mention MDB, DT meaning less required in other slots, status resist 15, more sb, counter 5). This is all before lower TP gain to the mob from SBII+25.. Where are you getting 1.7 attacks/round from? I'm coming up with 1.47 (36 DA, 2 TA, 3 QA). With AM3 it's 1.91, with Father Time it would be 1.97, so it still has a (marginal) improvement, but that's a pretty minimal difference for a weapon that can't proc DA/TA during WS (assuming worst case scenario for Liberator) 36 DA is very low.. that's full sakpata and schere alone. Sailfi or Ioskeha, coiste, DA on ambu cape are all better options than the stp equiv without am3 and with sam's roll. Set I based 1.7 on was 60DA, 2TA, 3QA and punched into the old but gold OAX calculator That Multi-attack calculator has been a workhorse for tuning TP gain rate.
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SimonSes said: » I think FT path B set would have more like 54%DA 2%TA 3%QA, so around ~1.64 APR before Follow Up and ~2.14 with it. (It's actually less if you consider 95% hit rate cap, but I assumed we are talking about APR on non missed hits). I made my own spreadsheet in excel a few years ago. My current setup with 56 DA/5 TA/3 QA and Father Time puts me at 2.203. When I plug your stats in, I get 2.142 so your numbers are spot on. AM3 sits at about 1.99 but it's not a fair comparison because you would obviously have to use a different set (heavier on Store TP) with Mythic. Another reason Father Time is nice, it's way more Sakpata friendly. Although my default configuration is not 5/5, switching to 5/5 if I need to is a minor APR reduction. Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: » SimonSes said: » I think FT path B set would have more like 54%DA 2%TA 3%QA, so around ~1.64 APR before Follow Up and ~2.14 with it. (It's actually less if you consider 95% hit rate cap, but I assumed we are talking about APR on non missed hits). I made my own spreadsheet in excel a few years ago. My current setup with 56 DA/5 TA/3 QA and Father Time puts me at 2.203. When I plug your stats in, I get 2.142 so your numbers are spot on. AM3 sits at about 1.99 but it's not a fair comparison because you would obviously have to use a different set (heavier on Store TP) with Mythic. Another reason Father Time is nice, it's way more Sakpata friendly. Although my default configuration is not 5/5, switching to 5/5 if I need to is a minor APR reduction. My general conclusion on this is: Are you not in any serious danger? Don't need Subtle Blow? Can you keep up AM3 easily? Can you skillchain? Go Liberator. Are you full-timing Sakpata? Is Subtle Blow necessary? Would you struggle to keep AM3 up? Skillchains don't matter? Go Father Time. The above guidelines are merely guidelines, I'm not listing those criteria with the literal sense of having to satisfy them all to use a weapon. I just like that Dark Knight has choices. Use whatever you think suits the situation. The main thing is the group wins and has fun doing it. Shiva.Flowen said: » If you are at 1.7 attacks per round with your multiattack, you are at 2.2 attacks per round for father time and only 2 attacks per round with lib am3 - right? You can gear for store TP with lib am3 without dropping your attacks per round as heavily, giving lib a solid lead in overall TP gain, but at a huge defensive cost (>250 meva, 200 or so def, not to mention MDB, DT meaning less required in other slots, status resist 15, more sb, counter 5). This is all before lower TP gain to the mob from SBII+25.. There's probably other pros and cons to consider but that's a very good overall assessment on the thought process and the numbers behind it. What folks decide to do with that information is up to them but like Kylos said, it's nice to have other choices... rather than the same tired ideas on this forum.
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