Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: »
Yea but proc time you wont fudo anyway so no AM, also amnesia wont let you fudo for AM so...
I keep AM up for the most part AM3 that last 90 seconds.
Kantonotachi Vs. Masamune, The Great Debate!
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Kantonotachi Vs. Masamune, The Great Debate!
I keep AM up for the most part AM3 that last 90 seconds. Amnesia would still detriment Masamune less because Masamune will produce a higher DPS regardless of AM or not. So the whole argument is irrelevant.
Qilin sheet, dia 2, haste, hasso, berserk, aggressor, yellow curry +1.
Masa90 2172 fudo 193 dps Kanto99 2431 shoha 193 dps Both sets have best tp/ws gear (tarutaru str/gkt merits), add cor buffing kanto shits on masa even on dps, put in atmacite also and there's really no contest here.
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You're doing it wrong.
Thats it? some sort of data would be nice instead of pretending stuff.
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Double check the merits, buffs, and gear; there is definitely something you didn't account for. They will have different optimal TP sets, only difference should be the belts for weapon skills, check my item sets on my profile for the weapon skill sets, maybe I'll add TP sets later.
Masamune should be using Fudo, Kantanotachi uses Shoha. Using RCB and Stalwarts, you can just assume 20 save TP because the other atmacite buffs aren't that significant. When Berserk is down they're on par with each other, with Berserk up Masamune jumps in the lead. Fudo will have a 50% ODD rate. Dusty Wings are plentiful and any good Samurai will pop one when their AM is down. If you're trying to argue amnesia so AM won't always be up, that's still irrelevant because Masamune would have the better DPS and Kantanotachi still won't be able to weaponskill. So even without Masamune's aftermath it'll still do more damage. edit: I made the claim before I even double checked myself. I was just confident in the answer. 193 DPS is low, I'm getting 268-278 (berserk down/up) for Kantanotachi and Shoha. 277-313 for Masamune and Fudo with just Haste as an outside buff. Oh, and Elvaan is the right choice.
Just checked you, some stuff i did different.
Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto.
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Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » mekira+1 How did I forget this existed. Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. More people need to realize that math here proves kanto's superiority to Masa 90. By a large margain.
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Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. Actually it can be in very very special situations in VW. All of that will end on Tuesday when they nerf miser's. TP bonus is the 4th best weapon for SAM on paper and in practice. Cerberus.Taint said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. Actually it can be in very very special situations in VW. All of that will end on Tuesday when they nerf miser's. TP bonus is the 4th best weapon for SAM on paper and in practice. So Even 99 Amano is more practical then 95 masa, 99 Mythic > 99 Amano > Kanto > 90 Masa. Math proves it without your high end buffs across all spectrums. Get over it.
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Phoenix.Deboro said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. Actually it can be in very very special situations in VW. All of that will end on Tuesday when they nerf miser's. TP bonus is the 4th best weapon for SAM on paper and in practice. So Even 99 Amano is more practical then 95 masa, 99 Mythic > 99 Amano > Kanto > 90 Masa. Math proves it without your high end buffs across all spectrums. Get over it. just sayin. Phoenix.Deboro said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. Actually it can be in very very special situations in VW. All of that will end on Tuesday when they nerf miser's. TP bonus is the 4th best weapon for SAM on paper and in practice. So Even 99 Amano is more practical then 95 masa, 99 Mythic > 99 Amano > Kanto > 90 Masa. Math proves it without your high end buffs across all spectrums. Get over it. I would love to review your math. If you have any.... Shiva.Schatzie said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. He doesnt math the one peice of math ive ever seen him post was just final numbers that he didnt even support with gear buffs ect. I quoted the math that proves him wrong read before coming up for air from sucking taints *** Actually it can be in very very special situations in VW. All of that will end on Tuesday when they nerf miser's. TP bonus is the 4th best weapon for SAM on paper and in practice. So Even 99 Amano is more practical then 95 masa, 99 Mythic > 99 Amano > Kanto > 90 Masa. Math proves it without your high end buffs across all spectrums. Get over it. just sayin. If your responses only consist of "NO U", just leave the thread. This goes for both sides.
Cerberus.Taint said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok.Jajabiondina said: » Just checked you, some stuff i did different. Fudo masa 90 - Shoha kanto 99 mekira+1--- mekira+1 justiciar --- ganesha brutal --- brutal moonshade --- moonshade ace --- ace heafoc --- unkai+2 pyro x2 --- pyro x2 unkai --- atheling beir+1 --- winbuffet (you were right here) ogier --- hachiryu dilaram --- dilaram Some things surpised me, like beir+1 is best for fudo, more weird ganesha wins for shoha and af hands too over heafoc and atheling over str gear but still str legs beats ogier bonus. Dps with double marches and cor jump to 359 fudo 391 shoha, cannot insert atmacite but those gets more power to kanto. Actually it can be in very very special situations in VW. All of that will end on Tuesday when they nerf miser's. TP bonus is the 4th best weapon for SAM on paper and in practice. So Even 99 Amano is more practical then 95 masa, 99 Mythic > 99 Amano > Kanto > 90 Masa. Math proves it without your high end buffs across all spectrums. Get over it. I would love to review your math. If you have any.... So Next update OaT GK wouldnt fall inbetween 99 Mythic > 99 Amano >OaT> Kanto > 90 Masa. If anything a "gimp Mythic" ~OaT~ should pull ahead of Kanto and Masamune for SAM post Save TP Nerf. Only difference is no extra hits on Shoha apart from Double Attack and Triple Attack. Or would it not be worth it post Zanshin update already? Im not sure what the actual proc rate on Zanshin would be regarding an additional hit and how much it would deminish oat when stacked with double attack from war sub and gear. I ask this because a friend has an 80 OaT from back in the day and is wondering if it is worth the upgrade or not. Ramuh.Krizz said: » If your responses only consist of "NO U", just leave the thread. This goes for both sides. The setup Target Qilin? Level 106 pDif Correction 0.35 Defense 560 Def Down Tier 2 Final Def 504 Evasion 470 Vit 120 Agi 120 Buffs Haste 1 March 1 0 March 2 0 Hasso 1 Haste Samba (5% if /dnc) 0 Meditate 1 Overwhelm 1 Berserk 1 Aggressor 1 Warcry 0 Chaos Roll 0 Chaos Roll Percentage: 19% Sam Roll 0 Sam Roll Amount: 35 Tactician's Roll 0 Tact. Roll Amount: 8 Adloquium 0 Stalwart's 1 TP Adjustments Over-TP Rnds: 0.25 Save TP: 0 Med. Over-time 30 If Masamune90 only used Fudo at 100tp (AM1)
Set 1 Elvaan 99 War Red C Bun 12 0 0 5% 5 5 3 5 4 16 0 5 5 GK Tachi: Fudo 1 30% Set 1 331 93.731 3.39 2021 3382 840 241.597 100tp Bonus 99 Shoha spam
Set 2 Elvaan 99 War Red C Bun 12 0 0 5% 5 5 3 5 4 16 0 5 5 GK Tachi: Shoha 1 0% Set 2 232 62.310 3.62 2567 3739 929 241.402 "Math proves it without your high end buffs across all spectrums. Get over it" WRONG it doesn't
And that does not take into account lots of other Masamune favoring factors. Haga,Sekk,Mediate,Zanhasso all favor Masamune. Every tic of TP over 100 devalues the bonus from TP100 and SAMs can rarely WS at exactly 100tp. It is also assuming that the 90Masa user is only spamming Fudo, DPS increases by 7 from Shoha and pulls away even further if the Masa user can start a fight with 300tp for AM3. (90 sec) The only way 100tp bonus can beat Masamune is with the "high end buffs" I was referring. Miser's is getting nerfed on Tuesday furthering the case for 90Masa. Check your math.
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plus masamune looks cooler. all arguments now invalid.
This is just what I was saying to a player on my server with a TP GK. Yes if your a bandwagon Sam and don't plan on playing it for long then get that weak ish. "oh tachi:shoha I think I'll pull out my sam and hop on that wagon" but don't wana do a Lil work for the real deal smh. One thing they forget about is that weapon is capped out at 99 lmao and most masa are only 90. Well hmm what happens when the masa becomes 99.... yea exactly! This guy wana parce us on the t6 vwnm cause he say it's better than a relic/empy but I play on xbox which lags like crap in VW and he's on pc where he just press one macro and I have to press like 5 with an xbox controller. I'm telling him the whole time which is the better weapon not fudo vs shoha or me vs you cause we all know many things can go wrong with 1 parce lol sombody could be para sleep bound have all his stats in the negative or just dead. I favor the masamune if you wana compare it to somthing compare it to a relic or mithic not some bandwagon Sam toy. If you don't take Sam serious stfu or gtf of the job. Whitetiger Make the damn masamune don't cop out to less then the best. Cause once more 95-99s come about the tp bonus sams will be at the bottom of the Barrel!
Matayo said: » This is just what I was saying to a player on my server with a TP GK. Yes if your a bandwagon Sam and don't plan on playing it for long then get that weak ish. "oh tachi:shoha I think I'll pull out my sam and hop on that wagon" but don't wana do a Lil work for the real deal smh. One thing they forget about is that weapon is capped out at 99 lmao and most masa are only 90. Well hmm what happens when the masa becomes 99.... yea exactly! This guy wana parce us on the t6 vwnm cause he say it's better than a relic/empy but I play on xbox which lags like crap in VW and he's on pc where he just press one macro and I have to press like 5 with an xbox controller. I'm telling him the whole time which is the better weapon not fudo vs shoha or me vs you cause we all know many things can go wrong with 1 parce lol sombody could be para sleep bound have all his stats in the negative or just dead. I favor the masamune if you wana compare it to somthing compare it to a relic or mithic not some bandwagon Sam toy. If you don't take Sam serious stfu or gtf of the job. Whitetiger Make the damn masamune don't cop out to less then the best. Cause once more 95-99s come about the tp bonus sams will be at the bottom of the Barrel! Totally making the TP Bonus Keito now Also honestly not everyone wants to waste 1500 plates on a Masamune when they have other options D:
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Yes there are other options lol all weapons are the options including masamune. But yea if you plan on hoping on dragoon when they get a JA that makes 7k dmg come out there dragons *** sure the TP +100 is The GK for you. Just hop right on another wagon. What job were you playing when abyssea was at its highest point? *cough* Razed ruins *cough cough* abyssea hero *cough* man somthing is making me sick at the moment. But hey it's not your prob it's your game you pay for. Play how you want. I belive in those things. Just don't consider yourself a main Sam and say that you take the job serious that's all I ask.
Also honestly it's not a waste of Plates if your main job wields the masamune. Matayo said: » Yes there are other options lol all weapons are the options including masamune. But yea if you plan on hoping on dragoon when they get a JA that makes 7k dmg come out there dragons *** sure the TP +100 is The GK for you. Just hop right on another wagon. What job were you playing when abyssea was at its highest point? *cough* Razed ruins *cough cough* abyssea hero *cough* man somthing is making me sick at the moment. But hey it's not your prob it's your game you pay for. Play how you want. I belive in those things. Just don't consider yourself a main Sam and say that you take the job serious that's all I ask. Also honestly it's not a waste of Plates if your main job wields the masamune. Main WAR/DRK/DRG mostly. Bandwagon SAM for shiggles. A 99 Masamune could be a 99 Ukon/Vere/Etc D: I'd wager a 99 Amano may be worth the effort over say a 99 Masa but it's all preference at that point really. Just when it comes to a decked SAM I usually see an Amano+ Yoichi which is pretty beautiful. I look at a Masamune and I see something rather common. Real sams will get Masamune and take it to 99, lazy run of the mill sams will downplay it until they are blue in the face. Remember hagun and how everyone that didn't have one either complained how much it cost or tried to say another GK (other than amano of course) was somehow the same or better? I remember lending my hagun to some friends back in the day and they went straight to the ah and got one. So, the question would have to be is 99 masamune or 99 amano the best? I'm gonna say Amano would have to in this area if SE keeps relics>empys. Only way I see masamune > amano is the +str > +acc, but I'm almost positive the afterglow on relics will put them ahead.
Thank you ^ guy with some sence. And yea it can be a ukkon but we all know most hoped on the war bandwagon when ukkon was made. And like I said you have ppl you main Sam > war. So it's not a waste and when I seen a 95 bow on a Sam they had a 95 masa. 95 rel easy most will use till they get a 95 masa. If they are using shoha relic don't do ***for it but the mass does so you have to be ignorant to see at the same dmg base at 99 and delay it won't beat beat it. And x2 dmg is still a beast *** AM. And ppl complain about the plated good I'm glad it's like that that way ull have to work for it. I had my masa when it came out it wasent cake back then so I did work to get it but now all trials are easy. But ull see when then 99's come out wich will pull ahead rather it's the rel or emp good but at the end of the day its damn for sure not gonna be that tp + 100 ***lmao which is the main idea of this thread.
How good is kaiten @95 anyway? i dont want to spend 1500 plates on fudo, might be easier to do amano.
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