BLM/SCH Atm

I seen lots of blms going /sch now than rdm sub, looks like gravity and para/slow are not relevant at this time and age, unless you're a 2006 blm that like to solo, even if there is better jobs for that ..effortless.. like bst or ninja... blm can use hailstorm now and other storm spells, with obis, will max way more dmg than /rdm sub on top of that you get dark arts with decent skill lvl if you are gimped / starter blm, parsimony is good for /ja spells, and sublimation, however no convert.....

i just wanted to know some opinions and thoughts, i think both subs are ok and makes it 50/50 because convert

Helices for proccing in Voidwatch.

A few things that come to mind when switching from /rdm to /sch is that you would lose Cure4, Haste, and Refresh. Also, convert, but I almost never use it. Just something to think about.
The helices are pretty nice to have though. Also, you would have sublimation to "replace" refresh. Also, /sch gets access to a lot of -na spells which is good for support.

***'s situational, but I prefer /SCH and use it whenever possible. Between Dark Arts, Sublimation, Parsimony, and now Manawell, I hardly notice the lack of Refresh/Convert. And Alacrity is great for pounding a mob into the ground fast, or spammy Abyssea NMs that are difficult to time proc spells on.

Plus, free Reraise. Woo.

I only use /RDM in certain solo situations for Gravity and Phalanx.

Its not really situational anymore, just sub sch.

When does BLM solo? Hmm....Wamoura Princes, Ebony Puddings, perhaps C-C? lolz And you should have whms and support jobs e.g. sch, brd, rdm's doing the curing not blms. Your just is to process and process fast. /sch support job gives you access to Helix Spells making u more useful in VW.


Q:What about fast cast from /rdm?"
A:Blm can reach casting time reduction cap(80%) with /sch and equipment.

Q:Convert and Refresh?
A:Dark Arts spell cost reduction, sublimation and temp items(EtherII) are available for u in Voidwatch!

Q:Phalanx?
A:If your dd's or tanks are doing their job u shouldnt be pulling any hate to get hit period. If you are pulling hate pop a Fanatics Tonic.

Kaeko's extensive enmity compilations have been available for how long now?

this line is getting over used so much, any job can pull hate very easy @ voidwatch btw, but rdm or whm smn.

They made these cool things called hate caps in, oh, 2002 I think? BLM isn't immune to hitting these caps and pulling hate off of a capped DD.

Regardless if and why you u pull hate is irrelevant/non-condusive to this thread. You have access to fanatics tonic for whatever reason u get hit.

The point was about the usefulness of Phalanx at this point in the game in relation to RDM.

I dunno.... "When beer came in buckets?" -Paris Hilton

I don't disagree that Phalanx isn't a major reason to be subbing RDM since it is rather ***, however your reasoning was pretty poor.

Seems more like a hyperanalysis of diction imo. but again non-condusive to the thread.

I dunno there, you designated an entire sub-point to say something blatantly untrue. I'd say that's worthy of correction.

No, you were pretty much just wrong. Pointing that out is hardly hyper-analyzing anything seeing as I barely had to analyze it at all to see the bleeding obvious. ;(

Have you two ever heard the term anal-retentive? If not i suggest you look it up.

the point of the thread is about /sch and /rdm sub. u two wanna derail the thread and be troll/ocd go ahead. ive got better thing to do. have a nice night.

Right, the thread is about /SCH and /RDM, that doesn't give you free reign to spout off outright incorrect nonsense at your leisure. BLM is going to pull hate eventually, even if all they're doing is casting proc spells. Implying that this will never happen if the DDs and/or tanks are doing their jobs correctly is a fallacy.

As for the actual topic of the thread, /SCH offers more to the BLM in Voidwatch as well as an added bonus of having access to Helices, (which your WHM should have anyway, but I digress), while /RDM offers some utility.

UR right a blm can pull hate eventually. If... 1)dd's suck 2) inability to process!! for whatever reason. 3)the blm isn't aware of Enmity Douse 4)the group isn't killing it in a timely fashion.

So now ill be anal-retentive because i got a few minutes, b4 dyna farm. My original statement is "technically" still correct.

Original:"If your dd's or tanks are doing their job u shouldnt be pulling any hate to get hit period"

This could be read in two ways depending how u want to read it.

"If your dd's or tanks are doing their job(to maintain hate) you shouldn't be pulling hate."

or

"If your dd's or tanks are doing their job(to kill the VWNM in a timely fashion) you shouldnt be pulling hate (because by the time u reach ur pulling hate the NM should have been dead long ago or staggered)."

So you decided to drag this on by creating an even larger post that has even more incorrect information?

Nobody else in your party determines when you reach the hate cap. Not your tanks, not your DD, not anyone other than a person with an enmity-reducing ability.

/SCH all the way parsimony makes spells like comet and -aja not hurt your mp pool just by having dark arts active spells will cost less and yeah hailstorm is awesome /SCH also gives the highest base INT available helices w/ a good BLM's gear are powerful dot etc etc (^_^)b

Any blm worth their salt would know when they are getting close to hate cap and douse before it. And a fairly well geared blm if procs arent the lower tier will get a real large chunk of hate unless they use other staves. /sch just makes proccing the ja's/am2/ams cost really cheap where convert/refresh fall behind. and with 3 mana replacing ITEMS it really is a better sub for the content now. Had to edit i hit enter too soon lol

If it takes you 10 minutes to cap hate on BLM you are doing it so very, very wrong.

For the few who don't seem to get it, nobody is arguing that /SCH isn't better (for now..it isn't), Cuelebra just doesn't know how Enmity works.

Chill and stay on topic.

While I agree that /SCH offers utility in voidwatch, I still prefer to come /RDM. If your group is keeping up on procs, then MP isn't an issue (temp items FTW). If not, and you run yourself out of mp, then convert is a lot more useful than "crap, I should have saved more mp". Convert gives you a free mana pool when you need it most; /SCH saves you MP all the time, but most of the time that savings goes to waste. Sublimation works as a nice reserve, but not as well as convert.

I also like to be able to Cure IV myself and use dispel without busting a strategem. I even occasionally haste other people. So what it really comes down to is one question: is someone else covering helixes, or do I need to do it?

Also, I tend to save douse for when it comes up as a proc. Because like Nightfyre said, it doesn't take 10 minutes to cap hate.

Now, if you want to talk about abyssea for a minute, I have a much stronger preference for /RDM. Some people don't understand how to make BLM useful for anything but procs. Let me assure you, "soloing" is not dead - it's just that most people seem to prefer other jobs for cleaving. But me, I am a career BLM. I like to blow ***up. My style absolutely requires convert and phalanx, and what I do simply cannot be done as /SCH.

You know the /SCH question has been played out a lot in the past not only with BLM, but WHM RDM and SMN as well. Most people disagree that it is important with WHM as a sub but its "meh" for the other jobs. I never understood this because of the reasons Cuelebra said above. The fact of the matter is you can get close to the -cast time cap and allow for other spells MPs to be cut drastically via Dark Arts or Strategems.

I personally like the SCH sub idea because it offers more utility and I really feel RDM sub doesnt offer too much (minus the refresh, which sublimation is better; phalanx, which offers a negligable amount of mitigation; and fast cast, which Dark Arts/Strategems more than account for). Convert, however, is a major boon, so its questionable at that.

(I have a BLM, but WHM is my main and I swear by SCH sub for WHM at all times).

/SCH if you're doing helices, /DRK if you're doing absorbs, /RDM if you're doing neither. The difference in MP inefficiency between /RDM and /SCH is beyond negligible. Go with the choice that's better in a pinch, and will still have something to give you in the case of weakness. That is, unless for some reason (that should be corrected beforehand) you've got any status removal duties.

And worrying about what to sub on WHM is really silly at this point. Unless you're getting really, really unlucky with procs, MP isn't an issue. Until superfluous MP management starts speeding up fights, you could be subbing BST and nobody would notice.

/sch is better for me, i like to use hailstortm and other weather spells with my obis and twilight cape to do a lot more dmg than /rdm, i don't think convert is more efficient than casting ja spells with parsimony /mp cost with dark arts, idk, doesn't cut it specailly if you're a taru, we all know taru convert is really bad, i like reraise and na spells too /sch can use loldispel

Why not bring a RDM/SCH instead of making a BLM go /SCH? The BLM gets /RDM for MP -if- needed(however, this is assuming they don't /SCH normally). Since the space that the SCH took pre sub helices isn't taken anymore, there's no reason not to bring a RDM and guarantee having all red procs.

My style involves doing 20% more damage than you. Something /RDM cannot do :p

My taru BLM convert is close to 1:1 (correct gear helps). Also, please learn to punctuate with something other than a comma. And yes, /SCH can use dispel, at the cost of a strategem. Like I said.

BTW, forgot to mention that BLM/SCH gives up Diaga, Dia II, Slow, and Paralyze. Of course, those can be covered by someone else, but so can the helixes. It's six of one, (not quite) half a dozen of the other.

Edit:
Uh, good luck with that?