BLM/SCH Atm

Get back to me when you play with competent people. It's mathematically impossible for that to be a regular occurrence with players on even footing of competency. And lets not forget that in order to do so you're not doing your job.

I don't know what Ukon WARs/Amano SAMs you've been taking to Voidwacth, but this sounds like an issue of full circle incompetency.

Best geared BLMs already do more than ukkon wars in abyssea but noone cares about abyssea XD

Yeah, no. Ukko's is equal if not better than non-AF3 proc ice spells, nevermind the large amount of damage dealt in between from general TP and retaliations.

XD XD XD

no

It will be easier to accept after the Ukkon nerf XD

Reported for trolling. Go away.

Sky has gotten close to the top in parses, it's not impossible if he just nukes. That would only happen if as you said he ignores procing, which he doesn't/shouldn't do.

It really is though. How long are your mobs alive for?

Did you know that I was the one of the first people to actually publish a study on the proc rate of conserve MP? That's ok, 2005 is ancient history. I bet everyone else forgot, too.

What I don't know is if conserve procs in addition to parsimony, if the reduction is calculated on the mp cost before or after parsimony. But in the best case, you save nothing extra (compared to a conserve proc that would have happened anyhow), and in the worst case, you would save less. So either way, conserve MP doesn't help the argument for /SCH. Nice try though.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a cost associated with curing before and after a convert. Doesn't really matter for VW or abyssea, since most of the time you'll have temp items for that, even if you've used all of your MP temps already.

As others have mentioned, BLM for voidwatch is very rarely about damage efficiency. So despite the fact that I still carry all 8 obis and a twilight cape with me, I have no desire to cast weather on myself. BLM -againg in abyssea is about speed and staying alive first, and damage efficiency second. /RDM clearly wins there, to the point where I'm not sure why there's even an argument.

BTW, before people figured out how to do voidwatch properly, I used to win parses, too. *twirls finger*

I make more liberal use of Alacrity than Parsimony, tbh. Mobs tend to die faster than my MP becomes an issue. The point is more that with Dark Arts and smart use of Parsimony when you need it, you can offset the lack of Convert in most (not all) situations.

But at this point we're just being silly. I think what set everyone off is someone early in the thread stating that it's not situational. It is. Everything in this game is situational. /SCH has some advantages over /RDM and /RDM has some advantages over /SCH - they're both very good subjobs. It comes down to what you're doing and what your style is. I prefer /SCH and default to that if I can. I respect Minjo's stance that you should default to /RDM because it will save you in a pinch. That's definitely true. I once wished I had convert when subbing /SCH. It would've saved my ***. But I haven't wished it since, so I continue to sub SCH unless I know I'm going to need something from /RDM.

Know what you're getting into and plan ahead. Have all options available. Just, for the love of god, don't run around full timing /WHM.

Lol.

Your DD aren't paying attention, then. This is pretty straight forward. Competent melee are nearly locked in their WS animations during VW. Ukko's is, on average, more powerful than elemental magic, which will take longer to cast, isn't unlimited, and has recasts. Ignoring that you, again, aren't doing your job if this is the case, and that your constantly moving the target around is of great determent to most of your alliance, it's still simply impossible when compared to melee on even footing.

And you can laugh all you want, Skylark. It won't change the reality of the situation. In addition to you not doing what you're supposed to be doing, you're not supporting your assertion in the least.

First off, you have no idea of how the alliance is set up. If we have 3 black mages, I'm going to assign proccing to the other two black mages while I dd. The simple fact that you're stating about BLM not being a DD in VW is just wrong. It's ignorant and just incredibly stupid. BLM can be a DD in VW, it can be one of the top tier DDs with the proper gear and playstyle.

Second, I rarely move the monster when I'm free DDing because of one item; Gnostics Drink. Use that next time you're in VW and watch how hard it is for you to pull hate despite your damage output. The second that I start to pull hate, it's simple. Pop enmity douse > another Gnostics drink, you're making this sound a lot harder than it actually is. Worst comes to worst, pop Fanatics, Mana Wall, Phalanx, and go stand next to the tanks.

Third, you might also want to think about monsters that are weak to a certain element. Take Kaggen for example, he is wind based so is obviously weak to wind. You can't honestly tell me that BLM is unable to do good damage when casting ice spells. With the addition of the -ja spells, this just makes your element specific nukes do even more damage. Stalwarts + Braver's for melees has nowhere near the effect that Ascetics + Braver's does for a DDing BLM.

tldr; You are wrong, you have no idea the way other people set up alliances. Shedding hate is super easy with gnostics drink. Black mage can be an extremely successful DD. Check your facts and play with as you put it "competent" blms.

Well, if you are setting up the alliance to be inefficient, how is that our issue?

And if you're doing your job - procing - melee can ride Fanatic's and TP is hardly an issue. The mob dies in less than five minutes. Black Mage is not a relevant damage dealer, sorry. Forcing a melee to proc while you pretend to do useful amounts of damage to the mob minimizes the more useful damage for a less useful spectral alignment boost.

Enough.

Oh my damage is very real I can assure you, there is no pretending involved.

Gnostic's drink does not "shed hate", it prolongs your trip to the enmity cap, which you're going to hit with or without it. Your argument is off base and pointless. Competent DD can not lose to a BLM. It is not possible against anything that doesn't dramatically resist physical damage. Spell casts and recasts, as well as finite resources make this a mathematical certainty. You need a stronger case than "nuh uh!" to prove that the game works differently in your VW alliances than everywhere else.

I never said that BLM would be number one, the simple debate is whether or not BLM can be a DD. The fact that you still have not managed to grasp this is seriously a problem.

On the fact of Gnostics drink, if you've read the testing on CE and VE, you would know that with gnostics drink up and you getting hit, your VE will go down much quicker.

Edit: Also never said that Gnostics drink does shed enmity. Might want to pick up some glasses.

Oh, alright.

Splitting hairs. Melee deal better damage, tank better, don't rely on limited resources, and don't move things around. Ergo, BLM are not in any way preferable to anyone engaged with a weapon for anything other than procing. You use your BLM in an inefficient way, move on.

Edit: and the fact that you're now trying to put the assertion that BLM does not deal damage in VW in my mouth is a testiment to your already shaky argument. I don't think anyone reading or participating in this thread was under the misapprehension that I don't think BLM is capable of casting Blizzaja for good damage. I've said that this is not an efficient use of one's time. Don't state the obvious as if it's a counter point.

This would be referring to your VE.

If all you've got left for me is pedantic semantic nonsense, I think we're about done here. If you've got anything else for me, take it to PM. This thread doesn't need to be clogged with irrelevant crap, and the answer has been given several times now.

/SCH if you need helices, /DRK if you need absorbs, /absolutely doesn't matter if neither of the two apply, but I have reason to believe that /RDM offers superior fringe benefits in unfortunate situations.

I've read quite a bit on enmity testing, and this is not how I understand it to work. Would you like to back up your assertion with a link, perhaps to some testing that I missed?

In abyssea, blm/sch CAN be a dd. One of, if not, the best. I'm pretty sure that with Alacrity, I can out damage anyone... but i've not tried it out. DD stands for Damage Dealer. My average is 6500 dmg to most single mobs, 3500-4500 aoes for 3-12 mobs. Exp parties are when i'll nuke up to 12 mobs. Granted 8 is the max you'll get exp for... it's just for my personal enjoyment. 7k blizzaja single target w/ ascetics which i normally use since i pop lots of temp chests. The only reason for not being /sch in abyssea is for ls events against a mob that does doom. This is how I play should I say. I don't die often in parties and I don't cure myself other than temp items.

In voidwatch, blm should be so preoccupied with procing your sub shouldn't matter. If we have a long proc maybe i'll do dmg, and again, Alacrity owns. I average about 2k - 3k spells in vw with ice(ossa grip cause ice to > all other elements). The only time I can think of going a different sub is if it's for a mob which does doom.

Blm CAN be backup support. Definitely. Blm CAN also be a dd. That is best done with /sch. Hands down.

if you go for procing on a mob use a townsgear set and use /sch.
If not use your nuking gear,
Porced a mob? it's almost dead? Now get your nuking gear ready and destroy it.