BLM/SCH Atm

MP generation/conservation shouldn't be a factor for either sub tbh.

Whats so hard to understand that fulltiming hailstorm /RDM will never touch that dmg ,strategems dont have a 10min wait to say one has been wasted and u have 2 of em /SCH spamming parsimony saves more mp in the long run than w/e convert can give you and alacrity is golden for zerging w/ manafont (^_^)v

Uh.

If you're doing Voidwatch, I guarantee you have at least one WHM. You might even have a RDM. It's kinda their job to do everything you're basing your choice of subjob on.


Then you know that Hailstorm > Diaga, Dia II, Slow, Paralyze.

...Right?

Head scratching aside, I do agree that /RDM is superior for AoE farming trash mobs. They tend to smash me if I'm anything but /RDM. :(

Honestly.... I throw /sch on my blm(if no need for /brd), whm, and smn just like I throw /dnc on all my melee jobs. Its just the best option to have more options.

these days /45sch is key.

What's hard to understand is how you'll be doing damage to anything but the dirt you'll be napping in if you try to -ga down as much at once as I like to.

Also, my converts in abyssea are good for something like 1700 mp. You'll have a hard time saving that with /sch. Using parsimony exclusively for blizzaja only saves you 950mp every 10 mins. Add in arts and you save another few hundred mp, but you still aren't beating my convert.

Of course, that's not really the point anyhow, because when you're popping chests like crack, you're not waiting on any timers. You're also not using nearly as much of your mp for nuking. And while I don't know exactly how much faster I'd nuke with alacrity, I have a hard time believing that it would even make up for the time required to hit the extra macro.

So yeah, good luck with that.

This reminds me of the BLMs of old who would insist on coming to an xp party as /NIN so they could wield an extra wand for the INT. Yes other people should be able to handle cures and dispels. But sometimes, it's nice to be able to lend a hand. Especially when fighting a mob that requires multiple rounds of dispels, or when the WHM is focused on keeping the tank or DDs alive. No, it's "not your job", but it makes you a better player when you do it anyhow.

Let's stop pretending that BLMs go to voidwatch to do damage (nevermind the fact that my quote above was clearly in reference to abyssea anyhow). Sure, when people first started out and many DDs didn't have temps, BLMs could stand in the back and do a lot of damage (compared to those DDs). But now, you're there to proc, not to e-peen. Hailstorm doesn't even figure, sadly.

this is a very vague argument, did you know blm and sch conserve mp traits procs a lot? you will also recover less mp because you have to cure yourself after convert, specially if you're a elvaan or galka/hume blm, on top of that it doesn't even worth it because you will be missing lots of damage per time because no weather, obis and stuff, it's like a a elvaan blm wearing full mp gear and no dmg, you can cast a lot but you're not giving full potential efficiently

I think you just killed your own argument here. /SCH will eliminate the factor of bringing a SCH, unlike /RDM.

He killed nothing. It's not uncommon to have multiple BLM, and plenty of other mages can and do sub SCH. Most WHM cling to /SCH as if their MP management has some impact on the fight, so one of them is more than capable of dropping a helix when necessary.

How did this get so far? /SCH if you need to do helices, /DRK if you need to do absorbs, /RDM if you don't need to do either. BLM is not a DD in VW.

Nor is it a supporting job. You proc, and then make an attempt to deal damage before it's dead within three minutes. Your Cure IVs aren't vital, so you might as well add something to the minimal damage you are doing.

Let's not pretend your MP management is actually meaningful, /RDM has haste.

something something temps items, mp management has little to no significance in voidwatch.

I was implying Hailstorm use, not conserving MP from Dark Arts.

Multiple BLMs kill the statement that BLM will pull hate in VW as they tend to split spells among em , now why should i /rdm is i dont need to do neither? its inferior /SCH is better in everything

haste alone cant compare to everything /SCH offers .For me the day SE gave SCH sub-able stoneskin that day /RDM died to me

"Everything" subbing SCH has to offer is everything a successful Voidwatch run makes useless.

Well Haste isn't even something you need if you consider Champion's Tonic.

Or Alacrity.

Why are you trying to squeeze inconsequential damage in periods where you should be trying to find/trigger the subsequent proc?

Pretending any of this matters is pretty silly. Neither subjob provides a distinguishable boost to a damn thing. You may as well be on the one that, in the rare case of a long period without a proc, can offer you some manner of reliable MP restoration. Lets not forget that those unfortunate periods where procs just aren't happening are typically accompanied by deaths. Sublimation is doing absolutely nothing for you during these times.

Wouldn't that hinder using Parsimony on each of your nukes due to lack of strategem recast, thus basically nulling the previous conversation about conserving MP?

In regards to the OP:
Personally, I think that both subs have their usage, but I don't think that one is ultimately better than the other. I think they're situational (as the /SCH option is on almost every mage job) and should be considered as such. When doing VW, remember to consider proc coverage. Also consider that a lot of WHMs complain about having to cast helixes while they're trying to heal tanks, DDs, and so forth. When doing Abyssea, it depends on what you're doing and how you learned to play BLM. Most BLMs that I know that leveled solo/duo all the way to 75 back in the old days still prefer /RDM. I prefer /RDM for Abyssea because I like having a back up plan when things get out of hand (gravity, etc.). Both subs do have their bonuses though, so it just depends on how you want to play the job. Have fun with it, regardless. :)

Bit of a contradiction here.

I stated that my main focus was to proc first and then deal damage.

Arguing about MP management when everyone has cried "Temps! Temps!" on top of the fact that I have 7 mp/tick in my Idle gear alone? Refresh and Convert clearly make /RDM the superior contender.

Convert does, due to the fact that its benefits to MP are instantaneous.

Are you aware of how Voidwatch works? I mean, if you're taking a long time to kill, by all means, sub Scholar.

I said subsequent proc. That means looking for the proc that replaces the one you just triggered, which is substantially more beneficial than trying to get off a spell during a blitz.

And everyone can pretend that perfect proc instances are the rule, but sometimes ***happens, and instead of arguing over which subjob will provide a meager boost to your already inconsequential damage contribution, I'd prefer to stick with the one that better accommodates for those rare but unfortunate happenings.

And before anyone types up some long-winded explanation as to why I'm wrong, I cannot reiterate enough that this simply doesn't matter. If you want me to tell you what I think is the best for VW, I'm going to say RDM. If you want me to tell you if I think it matters, I'm going to tell you "no" every single time. MP inefficiency is typically a joke, and so is your responsibility to deal damage. Go /BST for all anyone cares.

We are beyond the point of splitting hairs. We're splitting atoms. ATOMS, PEOPLE. That means that if we continue arguing about this, we're going to create an atomic bomb. Is that something you want on your conscience? Think of the children.

nor VW or abyssea convert is needed Minikin Monstrosity and ethers say hi

But is coherent sentence structure needed? I have no idea what you even tried to state.

I said convert is not needed at all in now-a-days events and never will again

Well, when temps aren't coming, I'd like to see how well Sublimation assists your MP recovery.

Should just sticky this and be done with it already :s

I don't know what blms you've been taking to VW. But when I'm full time DD, I parse just below ukon wars/amano sams. Blm can be a DD in VW, can even replace someone else's DD spot.