enmity douse might be nice for those fights, but i agree with everything else you said. i don't play with enough people to be able to have two parties with that much refresh.
edit: oh, that was @wolfshadow.
Some Big Issues I Have With Scholar.
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Some big issues I have with Scholar.
Lakshmi.Greggles said: Me fapping to my damage? lol. Look at you posting your Screenshots of your oh all mighty Induration Skillchain. Don't be a hypocrite. Once CE is capped, what matters is pure damage, anyways. It won't matter if you get 2k nukes off when I get one 3k when the mob comes for you because you've nuked it twice. Keep the content of threads for "{Fun}" out of this discussion Instead of having a BRD and RDM in the party lets imagine we have a NIN and a dead WHM. Suddenly the SCH is looking to be a bit better companion than the BLM!
OH and I haven't even gone into helices
Hmm. Ok. I have both jobs to 90, fully geared etc in +2 what not. I prefer being on BLM when it comes to nuking, because of procs, yes, but in Abyssea, your MP is near limitless because of ISLs, temps, Convert, etc.. Outside, I'd probably be more wanting to SCH because of everything you guys said. I probably went a little overboard on the argument there, calling onto a situation that probably wouldn't happen in game realistically at this point.
I've crushed -every- SCH in Abyssea SCH I've ever played with. Outside, yeah, not so much. But regardless, my whole argument at first was that in high refresh situations, BLM wins damage. I can nuke every 20 seconds with full damage and still not run out of MP in Abyssea. On SCH, I'd have to Ebullience to be able to keep up(Maybe not so much with AF3+2 and the Klimaform buffs etc, but still). You're arguing that SCH can do more, while spending less MP, while also nuking more. You can. But only for a limited time. When you're out of Stratagems, what do you do next? You can no longer be a ton more MP efficient than BLM. You can't nuke for more damage anymore. You can't nuke more than BLM. You lose everything. You can do -one- of those things and stay well on Stratagems. Not all of em, at once. Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V?
Lakshmi.Greggles said: Hmm. Ok. I have both jobs to 90, fully geared etc in +2 what not. I prefer being on BLM when it comes to nuking, because of procs, yes, but in Abyssea, your MP is near limitless because of ISLs, temps, Convert, etc.. Outside, I'd probably be more wanting to SCH because of everything you guys said. I probably went a little overboard on the argument there, calling onto a situation that probably wouldn't happen in game realistically at this point. I've crushed -every- SCH in Abyssea SCH I've ever played with. Outside, yeah, not so much. But regardless, my whole argument at first was that in high refresh situations, BLM wins damage. I can nuke every 20 seconds with full damage and still not run out of MP in Abyssea. On SCH, I'd have to Ebullience to be able to keep up(Maybe not so much with AF3+2 and the Klimaform buffs etc, but still). You're arguing that SCH can do more, while spending less MP, while also nuking more. You can. But only for a limited time. When you're out of Stratagems, what do you do next? You can no longer be a ton more MP efficient than BLM. You can't nuke for more damage anymore. You can't nuke more than BLM. You lose everything. You can do -one- of those things and stay well on Stratagems. Not all of em, at once. Also by then the mob would hopefully be dead lol also you're the one that brought us outside :/
Lakshmi.Greggles said: On BLM, outside of Abyssea, you can get 6mp/tick refresh in gear alone, 9 for refresh, 12 for refresh II. Bahamut.Weasel said: Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V? you're right not kidding For a change of pace my worthy blm adversary, wanna talk about how sch and blm might work together in a situation to create the largest output? :| Arguing can be fun/enlightening but can get tiresome after a while Wondering how bad-*** it'd be to have a SCH do a skillchain, then have both of the BLM and SCH MB off of it O_o.
Lakshmi.Greggles said: Wondering how bad-*** it'd be to have a SCH do a skillchain, then have both of the BLM and SCH MB off of it O_o. oh and Animus Minuo for what it's worth And having it be ice day and have used ascetic's gambir HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGHHHHHHHHHHHH Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: Bahamut.Weasel said: Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V? you're right not kidding For a change of pace my worthy blm adversary, wanna talk about how sch and blm might work together in a situation to create the largest output? :| Arguing can be fun/enlightening but can get tiresome after a while I'm a SCH, not a BLM.  Bahamut.Weasel said: Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: Bahamut.Weasel said: Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V? you're right not kidding For a change of pace my worthy blm adversary, wanna talk about how sch and blm might work together in a situation to create the largest output? :| Arguing can be fun/enlightening but can get tiresome after a while I'm a SCH, not a BLM. I doubt it would. But assuming the Induration does 4k like your screenshot, that's 8kish along with a magic burst. Assuming I can pump off around a 5.5k Blizzard V, MB + Weather might equal around 7kish? Not sure exactly. But still, that's pretty awesome.
**edit** fixed wording >.> Lakshmi.Greggles said: I doubt it would. But assuming the Induration does 4k like your screenshot, that's 8kish along with a magic burst. Assuming I can pump off around a 5.5k Blizzard V, MB + Weather might equal around 7kish? Not sure exactly. But still, that's pretty awesome. **edit** fixed wording >.> Imagine if we had this in the days of fafhogg/Tiamat thunder IV/burst IIing @_@
ofc nowadays though you just take 17 thfs and a whm to get TH 30, you pretty much need to to expect any Nidhogg pops :| Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: Imagine if we had this in the days of fafhogg/Tiamat thunder IV/burst IIing @_@ ofc nowadays though you just take 17 thfs and a whm to get TH 30, you pretty much need to to expect any Nidhogg pops :| Lol'd. Ain't that the truth. You can easily get a 4k MB with augmented Zenith mitts, as well as day. Dragon's Aery gets thunder weather a lot iirc, so weather wouldn't have as huge as an effect. But with SCH's Ebullience + Klimaform, I can see SCH pushing even higher than that. Would kill both NMs ridiculously quick xD Just my 2 cents
I'm not all down and hip on the new spells and such but people saying sch NEEDS hastega makes me lol sadly just a little in a nostalgic sort of way :(. I remember the days when rdm had to main cure, buff a full party, watch debuffs, and generally own all while having single target buffs only and walking in the snow both ways up uluegurand range to fight Jormy. Sch was already easy mode on the buffs. I think sch was an interesting job so have fun dudes The thing about Haste is I don't understand why SCH can't AoE haste when it can AoE Refresh. Just doesn't make sense to me really.
This thread is ridiculous. People pretending any job is complicated? Are we serious right now? You've got more buttons to push. The variance in virtually all situations is laughably low. There's going to be one specific way to be most effective almost all fights. This self-important nonsense is so disappointingly akin to 2004 RDM thinking they're the most complicated job because they have to maintain five different spells instead of everyone else's two that I wonder how most of you have managed to remain unaware of how dramatically easy this game is as a whole.
And ignoring for a second the silliness of thinking you're even remotely competitive with BLM from a vacuum point of view(spoilers: you're not), where were all of you when Enmity Douse was introduced? You realize that means that a BLM is going to safely deal damage multiple times faster than you? Granted, dying in Abyssea is both difficult and a non-issue, but it still factors in when it comes to offensive magery. When you cap your enmity within a minute or two, and have to start standing right next to your target to avoid drastically diminishing the performance of your primary DD, that's time taken away by being silenced, reapplying stoneskin, getting hit by that pesky slow aura, or patching yourself up from the latest 1,000 damage attack you got smacked with. Technical issues aside, still, how exactly were you planning on competing against anything without inherent resistance to ice? Have fun cycling Blizzard 3 and 4 while the BLM next to you finishes his Blizzard 5, Freeze 2, Blizzard 4, Blizzaga 3 cycle, which all have merited bonuses to them to go along with their significantly higher MAB traits. Scholar is a ***job right now, and its certainly not going to ever become playable if the people passionate about it sit here in denial, pretending its worth anything. Your job sucks, and you need to raise hell about it until something gets done.
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Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: Lakshmi.Greggles said: Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: My question for you being is in what situation will you be having a rdm and brd both in a party at your beck and call for you to deal magical damage nowadays. This isn't a "blm and all his bffl/triboxed mules vs. sch" situation, this is a blm vs. sch Also, if we're outside abyssea, my damage isn't limited to a single spell category (blizzard), meaning why would I use ebullience over 2 parsimonied spells, and with af3+2 pants my spells cost less than half of the amount of mp required. You forget that we have 10 levels of content. Who's to assume that you -won't- need that kind of support? Also, I'm fairly sure(I've never done Voidwatch, mind you) that people doing high tier Voidwatch content will have a BLM for procs(at the very least). And at least a RDM or BRD for refreshing the WHM. There. You have a refresher for your BLM. But yes, I've already said SCH wins for MP Efficiency(except in sutations with high refresh, aka Abyssea and possible new 91-99 content). But to be able to deal near equal damage to black mage, you have to forego that MP efficiency, because you'll run out of charges. Without Ebullience, where is your damage compared to Black Mage? It won't be nearly as close. I wouldn't put blm in the same party as the whm, and to that extent the BRD and RDM, your refresh is now lost. Especially since the BRD should be paired with physical DDs capable of dealing higher damage over time in comparison to resistable, slow, hate garnering spike damage. For procing, if blm is even useful in voidwatch, mp conservation and lower spike damage in favor of hate-stealing high spike damage is even more valuable. And if you want to fap to your numbers that's fine, just know while you're resting after your 3k Blizzard V I've already done Aero V and Water V for 2k each at less than half the cost in that time, if not more so. This isn't a contest of who can achieve the greatest orgasm, it's who is capable of the higher DoT, and so far you're losing. Wolfshadow is right. Its like saying because u use throw at big ws u automatically have the higher dot. Thats not usually the case. SCH has access to Helix. Which still does great dmg. Without Minikin or Ballad/ref2 blm does have mp issues still. SCH though after the sublimination update and convert- well SCH doesnt really ever ever run out of mp. Bahamut.Weasel said: Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V? Why doesn't SCH get Cure VI?!?! Did I spice it up a bit for you? Bahamut.Cuelebra said: well SCH doesnt really ever ever run out of mp. I made a few gravitation skillchains with the abuse of the Impact spell and ran out of mp a few times! Lakshmi.Galith said: Bahamut.Weasel said: Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V? Why doesn't SCH get Cure VI?!?! Did I spice it up a bit for you? Bahamut.Cuelebra said: well SCH doesnt really ever ever run out of mp. I made a few gravitation skillchains with the abuse of the Impact spell and ran out of mp a few times! how much does impact cost to cast anyways? i still dont have twilight cloak >.> and did this count using convert and wizard cookies!? Bahamut.Cuelebra said: how much does impact cost to cast anyways? i still dont have twilight cloak >.> and did this count using convert and wizard cookies!?  Bahamut.Cuelebra said: Lakshmi.Galith said: Bahamut.Weasel said: Why do all SCH threads turn into either SCH vs. BLM debate or whining about no Cure V? Why doesn't SCH get Cure VI?!?! Did I spice it up a bit for you? Bahamut.Cuelebra said: well SCH doesnt really ever ever run out of mp. I made a few gravitation skillchains with the abuse of the Impact spell and ran out of mp a few times! how much does impact cost to cast anyways? i still dont have twilight cloak >.> and did this count using convert and wizard cookies!? It costs 666MP base and 600MP under dark arts, which makes it rather useless unless you want to make gravitation for funzies. In addition it has a horribly long casting time which makes you waste a charge in order to land it on time. Is it me or did this topic suddenly become an argument that sch's don't need to be any stronger?
Fenrir.Calamity said: Is it me or did this topic suddenly become an argument that sch's don't need to be any stronger? Here, let me summarize this thread for you:  Remora.Dodu said: This thread is ridiculous. People pretending any job is complicated? Are we serious right now? You've got more buttons to push. The variance in virtually all situations is laughably low. There's going to be one specific way to be most effective almost all fights. This self-important nonsense is so disappointingly akin to 2004 RDM thinking they're the most complicated job because they have to maintain five different spells instead of everyone else's two that I wonder how most of you have managed to remain unaware of how dramatically easy this game is as a whole. And ignoring for a second the silliness of thinking you're even remotely competitive with BLM from a vacuum point of view(spoilers: you're not), where were all of you when Enmity Douse was introduced? You realize that means that a BLM is going to safely deal damage multiple times faster than you? Granted, dying in Abyssea is both difficult and a non-issue, but it still factors in when it comes to offensive magery. When you cap your enmity within a minute or two, and have to start standing right next to your target to avoid drastically diminishing the performance of your primary DD, that's time taken away by being silenced, reapplying stoneskin, getting hit by that pesky slow aura, or patching yourself up from the latest 1,000 damage attack you got smacked with. Technical issues aside, still, how exactly were you planning on competing against anything without inherent resistance to ice? Have fun cycling Blizzard 3 and 4 while the BLM next to you finishes his Blizzard 5, Freeze 2, Blizzard 4, Blizzaga 3 cycle, which all have merited bonuses to them to go along with their significantly higher MAB traits. Scholar is a ***job right now, and its certainly not going to ever become playable if the people passionate about it sit here in denial, pretending its worth anything. Your job sucks, and you need to raise hell about it until something gets done. blah blah blah blah ... so much garbage.
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Carbuncle.Yeva said: the Fox News to John Stewart, that truly made me lol :) Well I have both blm and SCH, both are very pimp.
Blizzard 4 on BLM does more then SCH (w/o abilitys) Blizzard 4 on sch with abilitys will sometimes beat my blm but they are pretty much the same. I personally don't use 2 ability with sch for 1 nuke. I don't know how the *** you guy get 2 strat right after using the initial 4, unless you nuke like a grandmother. I do not know many schs who use alacrity and I personally rather use my strats for other usfull stuffs.My blm will have time to cast blizz 5 + blizz 4 before my SCH is even done with blizz 4 <.< SCH is more MP efficient and more self efficient also. (higher cures/pro/shell/aoe aspir/awesome SS/Phalanx ect....)But the rare times where I ran out of mp as blm....Just to rare to even bother. So in some situation, SCH is better because it's more versatile. But as Pure DMG and has less headaches I go for BLM.
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