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Here is your holy man, bathed in the blood of inno
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:50:14
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2010-11-24 17:53:22
@ Jet
We live in a world based on faith lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:54:23
Lakshmi.Flavin said: @ Jet
Some of us live in a world based on illogical thinking lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
yeah I know, I detest it.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:55:57
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief do you believe that there is no God?
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:56:53
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief do you believe that there is no God?
if so that is your belief.
Having a lack of a belief in a god and believing there is no god are 2 very different things. Just to clarify I'm the former.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:59:15
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief do you believe that there is no God?
if so that is your belief.
Having a lack of a belief in a god and believing there is no god are 2 very different things. Just to clarify I'm the former. being non-conformist makes you a conformist because you are conforming to non-conformity.
same concept.
the anti won't exist unless there is a pro in the first place.
it's a polar belief system, num-nuts.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2010-11-24 17:59:28
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: @ Jet
Some of us live in a world based on illogical thinking lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
yeah I know, I detest it.
Is having faith that a friend will back you up in a time of need illogical? (just testing the waters)
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:00:26
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief do you believe that there is no God?
if so that is your belief.
Having a lack of a belief in a god and believing there is no god are 2 very different things. Just to clarify I'm the former. being non-conformist makes you a conformist because you are conforming to non-conformity.
same concept. no it isn't, and saying that not believing in something is a belief is a logic fail beyond comparison.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 18:01:16
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief do you believe that there is no God?
if so that is your belief.
Having a lack of a belief in a god and believing there is no god are 2 very different things. Just to clarify I'm the former. being non-conformist makes you a conformist because you are conforming to non-conformity.
same concept. no it isn't, and saying that not believing in something is a belief is a logic fail beyond comparison. whatever, believe what you want to believe.
you are still believing.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:02:05
Lakshmi.Flavin said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: @ Jet
Some of us live in a world based on illogical thinking lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
yeah I know, I detest it.
Is having faith that a friend will back you up in a time of need illogical? (just testing the waters)
unless they have done it before yes, it is illogical to expect such an outcome unless you have a reason to.
Here's where the term "blind faith" comes in.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:02:54
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
From where are you getting this definition?
I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991
now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.
here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm
so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.Why?
if theism is the belief in something then the anti of that should be the lack of belief do you believe that there is no God?
if so that is your belief.
Having a lack of a belief in a god and believing there is no god are 2 very different things. Just to clarify I'm the former. being non-conformist makes you a conformist because you are conforming to non-conformity.
same concept. no it isn't, and saying that not believing in something is a belief is a logic fail beyond comparison. whatever, believe what you want to believe.
you are still believing.
a lack of belief isn't a belief.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2010-11-24 18:04:06
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: @ Jet
Some of us live in a world based on illogical thinking lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
yeah I know, I detest it.
Is having faith that a friend will back you up in a time of need illogical? (just testing the waters)
unless they have done it before yes, it is illogical to expect such an outcome unless you have a reason to.
Here's where the term "blind faith" comes in.
Just because someone has been there before doesn't mean they will be there again. Thing is you can never really know for sure. Does that mean we should never believe in anything unless we can know 100% for sure it will work?
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:11:07
Lakshmi.Flavin said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: @ Jet
Some of us live in a world based on illogical thinking lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
yeah I know, I detest it.
Is having faith that a friend will back you up in a time of need illogical? (just testing the waters)
unless they have done it before yes, it is illogical to expect such an outcome unless you have a reason to.
Here's where the term "blind faith" comes in.
Just because someone has been there before doesn't mean they will be there again. Thing is you can never really know for sure. Does that mean we should never believe in anything unless we can know 100% for sure it will work?
You shouldn't believe in things without reason, however even if you have a reason the reason can be faulty.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 18:11:09
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
[+]
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:13:18
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: One of the worst qualities in society today is how fast someone judges another or an idea before fully understanding the concept of the subject (aka closed-minded); which goes even further to prove my point when nothing is actual fact. There are plenty of facts in the world, even if you don't know them.
There's also a difference between being close minded and already going over a subject and coming to a conclusion based on facts and sticking with it until somebody brings in some new facts.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:13:34
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
it's just how it is
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it.
Ragnarok.Anye
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2010-11-24 18:18:21
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
it's just how it is
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it. It's like saying "an opinion isn't a fact." Isn't that a fact?
There's a difference between "lacking belief" and "believing that there is nothing to believe in."
And personally I don't believe there's a such thing as the former.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2010-11-24 18:22:40
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: @ Jet
Some of us live in a world based on illogical thinking lol..... (and no I'm not talking about religious faith)
yeah I know, I detest it.
Is having faith that a friend will back you up in a time of need illogical? (just testing the waters)
unless they have done it before yes, it is illogical to expect such an outcome unless you have a reason to.
Here's where the term "blind faith" comes in.
Just because someone has been there before doesn't mean they will be there again. Thing is you can never really know for sure. Does that mean we should never believe in anything unless we can know 100% for sure it will work?
You shouldn't believe in things without reason, however even if you have a reason the reason can be faulty.
So your saying you can believe in something if you have a reason even if that reason could be faulty? even if the reason can't be used to prove what will happen?
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 18:23:10
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it. It's pretty black and white.
Do you believe this:
Quote: lack of belief isn't a belief
Y/N, do you believe that or do you not believe that?
You are done here because you don't want to give a straight answer, which was all I was trying to get you to do.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:27:53
Ragnarok.Anye said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
it's just how it is
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it. It's like saying "an opinion isn't a fact." Isn't that a fact?
There's a difference between "lacking belief" and "believing that there is nothing to believe in."
And personally I don't believe there's a such thing as the former.
people are born without a belief in something, people brainwash people with said beliefs, unconverting or never converting in the first place is certainly possible.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:29:38
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it. It's pretty black and white.
Do you believe this:
Quote: lack of belief isn't a belief
Y/N, do you believe that or do you not believe that?
You are done here because you don't want to give a straight answer, which was all I was trying to get you to do.
I did give you a straight answer, you just don't accept that somebody can have a lack of a belief.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 18:30:04
So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:30:43
Ramuh.Vinvv said: So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
I already did.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 18:31:04
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
I already did.
So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
I know you can hit the keys "Y E S/N O"
It's not hard.
Just humor me for a second and answer this specific question.
With either a Yes or a No.
Ragnarok.Anye
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2010-11-24 18:33:06
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
it's just how it is
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it. It's like saying "an opinion isn't a fact." Isn't that a fact?
There's a difference between "lacking belief" and "believing that there is nothing to believe in."
And personally I don't believe there's a such thing as the former.
people are born without a belief in something, people brainwash people with said beliefs, unconverting or never converting in the first place is certainly possible.
Given that, wouldn't you say that you would have to place yourself in the category of having been "brainwashed" of your "lack of belief"? I understand this tabula rasa argument, but it would be inhuman to be free of the fact that certain experiences in one's life create one's outlook on life.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:38:55
Ragnarok.Anye said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: a lack of belief isn't a belief. do you believe that?
it's just how it is
I'm done here I can sit here and say 1 doesn't equal 2 and you're going to say "do you believe that?" there's a difference between facts and beliefs and you fail to see it. It's like saying "an opinion isn't a fact." Isn't that a fact?
There's a difference between "lacking belief" and "believing that there is nothing to believe in."
And personally I don't believe there's a such thing as the former.
people are born without a belief in something, people brainwash people with said beliefs, unconverting or never converting in the first place is certainly possible.
Given that, wouldn't you say that you would have to place yourself in the category of having been "brainwashed" of your "lack of belief"? I understand this tabula rasa argument, but it would be inhuman to be free of the fact that certain experiences in one's life create one's outlook on life.
I guess brainwashed is harsh, but typically most are brainwashed by others into religions, although some find their own way, but typically it requires some sort of source material unless they made their own religion. I however don't have a religion, had one, lost faith in it and I don't see why people must believe in something.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 18:40:02
So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
I know you can hit the keys "Y E S/N O"
It's not hard.
Just humor me for a second and answer this specific question.
With either a Yes or a No.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 18:40:19
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
I already did.
So you gonna answer my question yet?
Do you believe this:
Quote:
lack of belief isn't a belief
?
Yes/No Answer please.
I know you can hit the keys "Y E S/N O"
It's not hard.
Just humor me for a second and answer this specific question.
With either a Yes or a No.
It's not a matter of belief, unless you're asking if I believe in reality, yes I believe in reality, if such a thing happens to be part of reality then whatever.
Story. said: A Catholic priest, facing criminal charges and a lawsuit alleging that he sexually abused a teenage boy, is now charged with attempting to hire someone to kill the youth, authorities said Tuesday.
Source: Source
Even the holiest of men can be tainted by evil. You would think by now people would look at the priests as evil horny fuckers and stop following them.
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