http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10/white-house-gives-in-on-bush-tax-cuts_n_781992.html
so uh...Happy Veteran's Day I guess. >_>
White House Gives In On Bush-Era Tax Cuts
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White House gives in on Bush-Era Tax Cuts
Smartest thing he'll ever do
Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more.
Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way.
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Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Your kind of skimming. You forget that if you give a tax cut to the rich they will likely invest it in capital markets if you give a tax cut to the middle class they will spend it. If the capital markets were perfect you might have an equal economic impact, between giving a tax cut to the rich and to the middle class. Unfortunatly the capital markets are any thing but transparent and accordingly investments in them tend to be distorted. (Think about Enron, Madaof, etc.) However generally people spend money on the most efficient / best product for the price. Those companies that are making that product can then spend to grow that company. Obviously giving a tax cut is going to stimulate the economy, the question really should be how to do it.
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/sigh In IL we elected Pat Quinn (Governor) who wants to raise our state income tax from 3% to 7%..... which will be damn near equal to what we already pay through FICA 7.65.....
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Your kind of skimming. You forget that if you give a tax cut to the rich they will likely invest it in capital markets if you give a tax cut to the middle class they will spend it. If the capital markets were perfect you might have an equal economic impact, between giving a tax cut to the rich and to the middle class. Unfortunatly the capital markets are any thing but transparent and accordingly investments in them tend to be distorted. (Think about Enron, Madaof, etc.) However generally people spend money on the most efficient / best product for the price. Those companies that are making that product can then spend to grow that company. Obviously giving a tax cut is going to stimulate the economy, the question really should be how to do it. I only simplify it because its usually that simple. Either way, if the middle class spends it or the wealthy do, it will spur investment, manufacturing, services etc.... Shiva.Ergiyios said: /sigh In IL we elected Pat Quinn (Governor) who wants to raise our state income tax from 3% to 7%..... which will be damn near equal to what we already pay through FICA 7.65..... Yeah, I feel your pain. In MA we just re-elected Duval Patrick who has said he wants to move to a progressive income tax vs. the current flat income tax. Cerberus.Zandra said: Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Your kind of skimming. You forget that if you give a tax cut to the rich they will likely invest it in capital markets if you give a tax cut to the middle class they will spend it. If the capital markets were perfect you might have an equal economic impact, between giving a tax cut to the rich and to the middle class. Unfortunatly the capital markets are any thing but transparent and accordingly investments in them tend to be distorted. (Think about Enron, Madaof, etc.) However generally people spend money on the most efficient / best product for the price. Those companies that are making that product can then spend to grow that company. Obviously giving a tax cut is going to stimulate the economy, the question really should be how to do it. I only simplify it because its usually that simple. Either way, if the middle class spends it or the wealthy do, it will spur investment, manufacturing, services etc.... that's assuming the rich don't just take the profit and run (which is what they typically do with revenue above the bottom line) this is about the dumbest thing Obama could have done.
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Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Your kind of skimming. You forget that if you give a tax cut to the rich they will likely invest it in capital markets if you give a tax cut to the middle class they will spend it. If the capital markets were perfect you might have an equal economic impact, between giving a tax cut to the rich and to the middle class. Unfortunatly the capital markets are any thing but transparent and accordingly investments in them tend to be distorted. (Think about Enron, Madaof, etc.) However generally people spend money on the most efficient / best product for the price. Those companies that are making that product can then spend to grow that company. Obviously giving a tax cut is going to stimulate the economy, the question really should be how to do it. I only simplify it because its usually that simple. Either way, if the middle class spends it or the wealthy do, it will spur investment, manufacturing, services etc.... that's assuming the rich don't just take the profit and run (which is what they typically do with revenue above the bottom line) this is about the dumbest thing Obama could have done. Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. Sylph.Dobrusi said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Shiva.Ergiyios said: /sigh In IL we elected Pat Quinn (Governor) who wants to raise our state income tax from 3% to 7%..... which will be damn near equal to what we already pay through FICA 7.65..... You also got Barney Frank again, haha, bummer. Nothing beats CA though, they account for 30% of the national debt and they, again, re-elect Boxer lmao!!! You'd think they would have learned by now. Cerberus.Zandra said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Your kind of skimming. You forget that if you give a tax cut to the rich they will likely invest it in capital markets if you give a tax cut to the middle class they will spend it. If the capital markets were perfect you might have an equal economic impact, between giving a tax cut to the rich and to the middle class. Unfortunatly the capital markets are any thing but transparent and accordingly investments in them tend to be distorted. (Think about Enron, Madaof, etc.) However generally people spend money on the most efficient / best product for the price. Those companies that are making that product can then spend to grow that company. Obviously giving a tax cut is going to stimulate the economy, the question really should be how to do it. I only simplify it because its usually that simple. Either way, if the middle class spends it or the wealthy do, it will spur investment, manufacturing, services etc.... that's assuming the rich don't just take the profit and run (which is what they typically do with revenue above the bottom line) this is about the dumbest thing Obama could have done. Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. you're one to talk about being foolish. you think for a second that the richest people in this country will put back into this country? then you're sadly mistaken.
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Sylph.Dobrusi said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Agreed, completely! People need to spend money to keep the economy going and that will help business, jobs, etc... This is no major fix to our economy though, that idiot obama is over in asia spending millions of our $$ talking about how to better other countries economies. He can't even get a grasp on his own country lol. He should be freezing ALL spending and working with congress every minute to fix OUR problems. I guess that is what you get with an inexperienced President. you really don't understand the concept of a global market or the fact that India's population is insanely huge. Also their location in the world, with them as our buddies we gain some stability in the area. Also considering the problems here will take years to revert from the poor economic policies of G.W. Bush, he's done a lot already, it just takes time. There's no miracle fix. Also as to his spending, look at the area of the world, he needs to have that force present to prevent anything from happening.
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Cerberus.Zandra said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Your kind of skimming. You forget that if you give a tax cut to the rich they will likely invest it in capital markets if you give a tax cut to the middle class they will spend it. If the capital markets were perfect you might have an equal economic impact, between giving a tax cut to the rich and to the middle class. Unfortunatly the capital markets are any thing but transparent and accordingly investments in them tend to be distorted. (Think about Enron, Madaof, etc.) However generally people spend money on the most efficient / best product for the price. Those companies that are making that product can then spend to grow that company. Obviously giving a tax cut is going to stimulate the economy, the question really should be how to do it. I only simplify it because its usually that simple. Either way, if the middle class spends it or the wealthy do, it will spur investment, manufacturing, services etc.... that's assuming the rich don't just take the profit and run (which is what they typically do with revenue above the bottom line) this is about the dumbest thing Obama could have done. Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. you can say these tax cuts "help", sure...but you can't really say much about how much the tax cuts for the wealthy stimulate the economy. middle class and lower use it....and the wealthy invest it :/ I would do the same thing if I were in the top 1% so I don't know how that doesn't makes sense. and Dobrusi, you are an idiot as always. Quote: ...Also considering the problems here will take years to revert from the poor economic policies of G.W. Bush... Funny thing is in a couple years we will be using the same language to describe B.H. Obama in regards to his domestic policies. I'm all for keeping Bush Tax Cuts unless they have another measure that would decrease taxes even further. Lower taxes is less revenue for the government so they will need to find a way to reduce the spending. Won't happen probably with the lockdown in Congress so we'll just end up reducing revenue and increase the national debt. Sylph.Dobrusi said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Carbuncle.Tyleron said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Not at all, I'm dead serious. Keeping more money into the hands of everyone will mean more employment and a better economy than if he taxes them more. Generally, when you lower taxes and thus let people keep more of what they earn, they generally find ways to make more wealth with it. When people make more money, it means they pay more taxes. Conversely, when you take more money from people it generally means that you are making it more difficult to create more wealth, and therefore people tend to create less of it. Because there is less wealth being generated it usually means less tax revenue. It may seem counter intuitive, but it nearly always happens this way. Agreed, completely! People need to spend money to keep the economy going and that will help business, jobs, etc... This is no major fix to our economy though, that idiot obama is over in asia spending millions of our $$ talking about how to better other countries economies. He can't even get a grasp on his own country lol. He should be freezing ALL spending and working with congress every minute to fix OUR problems. I guess that is what you get with an inexperienced President. you really don't understand the concept of a global market or the fact that India's population is insanely huge. Also their location in the world, with them as our buddies we gain some stability in the area. Also considering the problems here will take years to revert from the poor economic policies of G.W. Bush, he's done a lot already, it just takes time. There's no miracle fix. Also as to his spending, look at the area of the world, he needs to have that force present to prevent anything from happening. When Bush left office the deficit was 3 trillion, it is now 13 after only 2 years. IF you honestly think obama is doing a good job then I feel sorry for you and your theories. The election several weeks ago is perfect proof that he is not doing a good job at all. I can't believe how blind you are. I agree that Bush started spending way too much toward the end of his term and he did in fact begin the whole stimulus b.s. Obama is a train wreck and he is taking our great country down. He has passed legislation that is unconstitutional, such as obamacare. Whatever happens happens, I voted and did my part.
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Yeah these Bush tax cuts will really help the economy since, you know, we haven't already had them in effect since 2001-2003.
They've been so effective already, so they will definitely be effective now. Also the defect was $10.7 Trillion in 2008, NOT $3 Trillion like someone was claiming. A simple Google search tells us this.
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Sylph.Dobrusi said: When Bush left office the deficit was 3 trillion, it is now 13 after only 2 years. IF you honestly think obama is doing a good job then I feel sorry for you and your theories. The election several weeks ago is perfect proof that he is not doing a good job at all. I can't believe how blind you are. I agree that Bush started spending way too much toward the end of his term and he did in fact begin the whole stimulus b.s. Obama is a train wreck and he is taking our great country down. He has passed legislation that is unconstitutional, such as obamacare. Whatever happens happens, I voted and did my part. The most facist,unconstitutional legislation in the history of this country...the "Patriot Act" was originally signed in by W.Bush....but then again,it was going to expire and Obama signed an extension on it lol.I don't trust either side.
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Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. you can say these tax cuts "help", sure...but you can't really say much about how much the tax cuts for the wealthy stimulate the economy. middle class and lower use it....and the wealthy invest it :/ I would do the same thing if I were in the top 1% so I don't know how that doesn't makes sense. and Dobrusi, you are an idiot as always. Let me connect the dots for you, when the "rich" invest their money, that creates jobs which in turn create more wealth and more money. I.E. if by extending the BUSH tax cuts I get to keep an additional 2k of my own money, I might invest that into painting my house, or finishing off my basement. This creates a job that didn't exist before. Not only that but it also creates wealth because now my house is worth more than it was before it was painted. Win/win. If I get 20k of my own money back I can invest more heavily and maybe say help my brother start a business, or buy stock and invest in some bio-tech company who then develops the artificial heart and saves millions of people. Again Win/win. Sylph.Dobrusi said: I have better things to do than make up numbers. Listen to talk radio, t.v. news....this is talked about fairly regularly. Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. you can say these tax cuts "help", sure...but you can't really say much about how much the tax cuts for the wealthy stimulate the economy. middle class and lower use it....and the wealthy invest it :/ I would do the same thing if I were in the top 1% so I don't know how that doesn't makes sense. and Dobrusi, you are an idiot as always. Let me connect the dots for you, when the "rich" invest their money, that creates jobs which in turn create more wealth and more money. I.E. if by extending the BUSH tax cuts I get to keep an additional 2k of my own money, I might invest that into painting my house, or finishing off my basement. This creates a job that didn't exist before. Not only that but it also creates wealth because now my house is worth more than it was before it was painted. Win/win. If I get 20k of my own money back I can invest more heavily and maybe say help my brother start a business, or buy stock and invest in some bio-tech company who then develops the artificial heart and saves millions of people. Again Win/win. and your hypotheticals don't amount up to anything :/ I can't exactly say what you would "invest in", but it's obvious that trickle down doesn't work all that well since as the republicans say "we are in 13 billion trillion million quadrillion dollars of debt since obama" are you actually wealthy or was this all a hypothetical?
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Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. you can say these tax cuts "help", sure...but you can't really say much about how much the tax cuts for the wealthy stimulate the economy. middle class and lower use it....and the wealthy invest it :/ I would do the same thing if I were in the top 1% so I don't know how that doesn't makes sense. and Dobrusi, you are an idiot as always. Let me connect the dots for you, when the "rich" invest their money, that creates jobs which in turn create more wealth and more money. I.E. if by extending the BUSH tax cuts I get to keep an additional 2k of my own money, I might invest that into painting my house, or finishing off my basement. This creates a job that didn't exist before. Not only that but it also creates wealth because now my house is worth more than it was before it was painted. Win/win. If I get 20k of my own money back I can invest more heavily and maybe say help my brother start a business, or buy stock and invest in some bio-tech company who then develops the artificial heart and saves millions of people. Again Win/win. The tax cuts have been in place for awhile, yet we lose jobs everyday. So by doing the same thing, we get different results?
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Take the money and run? Stop being foolish, every time we've lowered taxes, we've INCREASED incoming tax revenue. you can say these tax cuts "help", sure...but you can't really say much about how much the tax cuts for the wealthy stimulate the economy. middle class and lower use it....and the wealthy invest it :/ I would do the same thing if I were in the top 1% so I don't know how that doesn't makes sense. and Dobrusi, you are an idiot as always. Let me connect the dots for you, when the "rich" invest their money, that creates jobs which in turn create more wealth and more money. I.E. if by extending the BUSH tax cuts I get to keep an additional 2k of my own money, I might invest that into painting my house, or finishing off my basement. This creates a job that didn't exist before. Not only that but it also creates wealth because now my house is worth more than it was before it was painted. Win/win. If I get 20k of my own money back I can invest more heavily and maybe say help my brother start a business, or buy stock and invest in some bio-tech company who then develops the artificial heart and saves millions of people. Again Win/win. The tax cuts have been in place for awhile, yet we lose jobs everyday. So by doing the same thing, we get different results? it's pretty much a "why you taxing me more than the poor" the answer "because they are poor and cannot afford it" "not fair i want to keep all of my money and I don't give a ***about anyone else because my net worth is in the billions!" funny thing most of the people that argue this are middle to upper middle class though. Ramuh.Vinvv said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: I have better things to do than make up numbers. Listen to talk radio, t.v. news....this is talked about fairly regularly. While 10.7 trillion is closer to the actual mark, my favorite statistic is that Obama has overspent in less than 2 years just about what Bush did over 8 years. I hate to break it to you Vinvv, but people who follow news t.v and radio (aside from the mistake above) are far more informed about what is going on than anyone else. Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: I have better things to do than make up numbers. Listen to talk radio, t.v. news....this is talked about fairly regularly. While 10.7 trillion is closer to the actual mark, my favorite statistic is that Obama has overspent in less than 2 years just about what Bush did over 8 years. I hate to break it to you Vinvv, but people who follow news t.v and radio (aside from the mistake above) are far more informed about what is going on than anyone else. might as well tell me so I don't go to them for information. and you can't say "aside from the mistake above" because that same kind of mistake above happens half the time I see people talking politics. but hell that statistic in bold was made up because you know 95% of them are made on the spot :D i just find it silly to hang on the words of others without questioning them..this is from both sides of the fence. I may not be the most informed individual but I know BS when I see it most of the time.
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