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The real cost of low wages
Serveur: Shiva
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Posts: 3618
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 13:19:41
When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.
If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts....just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing? Can I please ask for a citation there? I've been through times of hardship and I've known other people who have done as well. $200 a month in food stamps (this was back around the 2008 crash, the benefit has since been reduced or so I'm told) and virtually nothing else is kind of a long way from pulling down $35 grand a year.
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Seraph.Ramyrez
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Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 13:26:19
When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.
If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts....just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing? Can I please ask for a citation there? I've been through times of hardship and I've known other people who have done as well. $200 a month in food stamps (this was back around the 2008 crash, the benefit has since been reduced or so I'm told) and virtually nothing else is kind of a long way from pulling down $35 grand a year.
Frankly, when I was making ***I never even thought to apply for assistance. I wish I had. It probably would have helped me get out of that situation faster in the long run, had I been able to swallow my pride and do it.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 13:29:42
You can work "Full Time" at 32 hours/week at minimum wage and not net 14k, that's hardly "next to nothing."
Not to mention: bull *** ***.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 13:30:29
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 13:31:53
Think of it like this... when you have abuddy who is a stay at home dad and the mom is out making all the moola the first thought that seems to come into many peoples minds is not usually a positive one for the man lol... I could dig that, lol. Taking care of kids all day is easy.
Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-04-22 13:33:44
How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing?
I would like that very much. where do I send an app?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 13:37:01
Walmart greeters and burger flippers jobs are not there to support a family. People who work those positions with the intention of "supporting their families" off of those jobs are doing it just to get on government assistance. A tangential question arises.
I should point out that I have a lot of family members, myself included, who do work or have worked with the disabled. My brother and I both have a lot of experience working with people who have Downs syndrome and similar permanent intellectual impairments. Pushing a broom, saying hello to customers, or flipping burgers may be literally all that they can do to support themselves.
Is it right that they cannot? I suspect the likely answer I'll get is, "Well, the government ought to be assisting people in those kinds of situations." Should it? Wouldn't that run counter to the whole idea of big government hand-holding us? If someone with trisomy 21 (Downs syndrome) is capable of maintaining a household and job, as many of them are, but simply cannot master the skills necessary to move above the bottom-most rung of labor, what ought to happen? Should we let them sit on the dole all their lives, should we drown them at birth, should we actually let them have an independent and happy life by encouraging employers to pay them adequately for the service they can give?
I won't even get started on all the shitty looks and remarks these people get because they're trying to support themselves. As I have stated before, I don't mind if Social Security or other government assistance were to help those who are not physically or mentally capable to help themselves. Having a job like a Walmart greeter or burger flipper to help support/supplement to their income, but not live off of it, is ideal, as part of their income can be used to offset whatever additional assistance needed.
I'm all for helping people if they need it, but I'm very against supporting people who chooses not to work so they can receive handouts. The fraud in the welfare system is severely rampant, and nothing is being done because people think with their feels more than their brains, and all any politician would have to say to the brainwashed masses who think with their feels is what you hear on the liberal side anyway.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 13:39:51
If you want to get paid to do next to nothing I heard the Huff Post is hiring for "women" section writers !
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 13:40:05
When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.
If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts....just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing? Can I please ask for a citation there? I've been through times of hardship and I've known other people who have done as well. $200 a month in food stamps (this was back around the 2008 crash, the benefit has since been reduced or so I'm told) and virtually nothing else is kind of a long way from pulling down $35 grand a year. hard data on welfare
Research about the amount of money received by welfare recipients
By fonewear 2015-04-22 13:44:56
When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.
If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts....just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing? Can I please ask for a citation there? I've been through times of hardship and I've known other people who have done as well. $200 a month in food stamps (this was back around the 2008 crash, the benefit has since been reduced or so I'm told) and virtually nothing else is kind of a long way from pulling down $35 grand a year. hard data on welfare
Research about the amount of money received by welfare recipients
Hard data...that's my fetish !
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 13:45:35
You can work "Full Time" at 32 hours/week at minimum wage and not net 14k, that's hardly "next to nothing." You can do next to nothing at a job flipping burgers and ignoring people at Walmart and make minimum wage. Or are you going to say that those people work harder than, say, a computer programmer does?
Not to mention: bull *** ***. I know you didn't see the links I provided, but I'll still accept your apology anyway.
Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. I know you won't admit you are wrong, you never do.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 13:52:50
Is there any way to make a ton of money off of adopting a ton of kids?
By fonewear 2015-04-22 13:53:39
Is there any way to make a ton of money off of adopting a ton of kids?
Cheat on welfare/food stamps ? Sell them on the black market ! I heard blue eyed babies go for a nice price.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3618
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 13:59:32
Ok... I hate to be "that guy," but this is an analysis from 1995. I kept wondering why it was referring to AFDC until I checked the publication date.
Now, as someone who has both received (a very small amount of) federal assistance and who is familiar with many people who have, merely saying that someone can get X is not the same as saying they will get X.
For instance, to qualify for section 8 housing as a single male with no attached dependents, apply a gun to your temple and pull the trigger because you NEVER WILL. And it's not like living in a section 8 project is fun or enviable. I did some work on "low income" housing that was being provided free-of-charge by the government for Somali refugees. They *** the property over completely. The renovations I was doing, though, made the apartments so nice that I seriously considered asking the front office how little money I would need to make to qualify to move in. I haven't been back there in a year, but I'm certain they've been trashed. Again.
Utilities assistance is another one. A friend, whose word I'm going to trust, attempted to get out of a jam with that. The organization in charge of providing assistance said it'd be an 8-week wait just to get an appointment unless he lined up at 4 AM to try to get emergency help. He lined up, got inside, and was rejected because he couldn't provide proof that he wasn't working that very day. I don't mean that he couldn't produce paystubs, I mean that they claimed they couldn't help him because there was no written-down proof that he was standing in front of them instead of out on the job.
Food stamps, as I alluded, are neither enough to fully feed those who get them nor a particularly large benefit in the first place.
I will grant that Medicaid, especially under the many state-approved eligibility extensions under ACA, is probably accounting for a lot of those monies. Having health insurance is a really big deal, but it seems a little dubious to notch that under "income" when a person working for ***money, especially prior to ACA, simply would not have had health insurance anyhow.
TANF is the one program I really don't know much about. Does WIC fall under that umbrella? Not sure.
The fraud in the welfare system is severely rampant Again, and I'm genuinely not doing this to pick on you, but do you have a citation? I have friends and colleagues who literally work for the agencies that administrate welfare and they tell me that welfare fraud is quite rare. I want to look at facts to see who is right.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:00:53
I'll counter all this hard data with soft speculation !
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:01:05
You can work "Full Time" at 32 hours/week at minimum wage and not net 14k, that's hardly "next to nothing." You can do next to nothing at a job flipping burgers and ignoring people at Walmart and make minimum wage. Or are you going to say that those people work harder than, say, a computer programmer does?
Not to mention: bull *** ***. I know you didn't see the links I provided, but I'll still accept your apology anyway.
Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. I know you won't admit you are wrong, you never do.
Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. (Speaking of, Chaos: how hard do you work?)
I don't really want to hear this nonsense from a trust fund brat, and your links mean diddly when it comes to the real world.
So again: bull *** ***.
But you go ahead and continue looking down on people, it's what your and your ilk are good at.
edit: Also; I admit I'm wrong when I am actually wrong, yet it rarely happens.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:02:34
I've programmed computers and it was hell. Actually hell would be more enjoyable !
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:04:07
Fone, you hare the hardest worker of them all.
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By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:06:52
Isn't that what it's all about a hard day of work ! Be it garbage man mailman or some other work that ends in man !
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Serveur: Shiva
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Posts: 3618
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 14:07:13
You can do next to nothing at a job flipping burgers and ignoring people at Walmart and make minimum wage. Or are you going to say that those people work harder than, say, a computer programmer does? False syllogism.
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work.
Maybe the cashier gets to sit on his/her heels at McDonald's. I must assume that's the job you had, since you imagine fast food is effortless?
I've worked in a few restaurants, always front of house. I would greet and seat people, check them out, bus tables, assist servers, and basically do anything else that needed to be done. I was on my feet for 8+ hours, often didn't get a break unless I was about to pass out from dehydration or piss my pants, and regularly got stuck working Friday midnight and the Sunday rush in the same weekend. And you literally couldn't pay me less than $15/hour to go back and do that ***again. Oh, and I was pure hourly, didn't even get a cut of the tips, so I was barely making over minimum wage. I am honestly convinced that I do less work now, even on days when I'm acting like a glorified burro, working in construction.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 14:07:20
edit: Also; I admit I'm wrong when I am actually wrong, yet it rarely happens.
Lies!
This aggression will not stand, man.
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:09:28
Ok... I hate to be "that guy," but this is an analysis from 1995. I kept wondering why it was referring to AFDC until I checked the publication date. You are correct, I was looking at both studies and posted the wrong one.
Here you go
I looked at the 1995 study to see if there were any major differences between the methodology of reporting the data, and I couldn't find any that stood out.
Again, and I'm genuinely not doing this to pick on you, but do you have a citation? I have friends and colleagues who literally work for the agencies that administrate welfare and they tell me that welfare fraud is quite rare. I want to look at facts to see who is right. I cannot seem to find an article that's not overly biased in it's reporting, nor the published journals I have read is available without a subscription. So, I cannot give you a source, sorry.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:09:56
On another note: I find it funny how the middle class and working class is tricked into hating on the other people who are getting *** over by the same wealthy elites as the poor.
Quote: There's 12 cookies on a plate, and a CEO, middle-class worker and poor person are sitting around the table. The CEO takes 11 cookies and tells the middle-class person that the poor person is going to eat his cookie.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:11:37
edit: Also; I admit I'm wrong when I am actually wrong, yet it rarely happens.
Lies!
This aggression will not stand, man. Calm down Ramy, nobody wants to go on a mustache ride.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 14:11:47
Chaos: how hard do you work? Right now I'm still in retirement. But I'm being poached to do writing for China students.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:12:38
You traitor how dare you support those commie *** !
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Seraph.Ramyrez
Serveur: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 14:13:13
Calm down Ramy, nobody wants to go on a mustache ride.
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:13:19
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:14:34
I wouldn't say programmers are worthless just they look like this:
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:15:23
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman!
Americans are spending $153 billion a year to subsidize McDonald’s and Wal-Mart’s low wage workers
The Washington post
And because its behind a paywall....
Quote: The low wages paid by businesses, including some of the largest and most profitable companies in the U.S. – like McDonald’s and Wal-Mart – are costing taxpayers nearly $153 billion a year.
After decades of wage cuts and health benefit rollbacks, more than half of all state and federal spending on public assistance programs goes to working families who need food stamps, Medicaid, or other support to meet basic needs. Let that sink in — American taxpayers are subsidizing people who work — most of them full-time (in some case more than full-time) because businesses do not pay a living wage.
Workers like Terrence Wise, a 35-year-old father who works part-time at McDonald’s and Burger King in Kansas City, Mo., and his fiancée Myosha Johnson, a home care worker, are among millions of families in the U.S. who work an average of 38 hours per week but still rely on public assistance. Wise is paid $8.50 an hour at his McDonald’s job and $9 an hour at Burger King. Johnson is paid just above $10 an hour, even after a decade in her field. Wise and Johnson together rely on $240 a month in food stamps to feed their three kids, a cost borne by taxpayers.
The problem of low wages and the accompanying public cost extends far beyond the fast-food industry. Forty-eight percent of home care workers rely on public assistance. In child care, it’s 46 percent. Among part-time college faculty—some of the most highly educated workers in the country—it’s 25 percent.
Ebony Hughes is paid $7.50 an hour as a home care worker in Durham, N.C., and has a second job at a local KFC. While the home care industry has the fastest growing number of jobs in America, these workers are some of the lowest paid in the country – earning, on average, $13,000 a year. To get enough hours to pay the bills, Hughes works from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. But she and her daughter still rely on public assistance to make ends meet.
UC Berkeley’s Center for Labor Research and Education, which I chair, has analyzed state spending for Medicaid/Children’s Health Insurance Program and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, and federal spending for those programs as well as food stamps and the Earned Income Tax Credit.
We found that, on average, 52 percent of state public assistance spending supports working families (defined as working for at least 26 weeks a year and 10 hours a week) – with costs as high as $3.7 billion in California, $3.3 billion in New York, and $2 billion in Texas.
In recent months, the substantial public cost of low wages has prompted elected officials to take action. Legislators in California, Colorado, Maine, Oregon, and Washington are considering increasing the minimum wage to $12 an hour. In Connecticut, a proposal currently moving through the state legislature would fine large companies that pay low wages in an effort to recoup the costs imposed on taxpayers.
When 73 percent of people who benefit from major public assistance programs live in a working family, our economy isn’t operating the way it should – and could – be. From 2003-2013, inflation-adjusted wages fell for the entire bottom 70 percent of the workforce. Over the same time period we have also seen a large decline in the share of Americans with job-based health coverage.
Today – on Tax Day – underpaid workers are striking and protesting in cities across the country and around the globe to call for $15 an hour and the right to form a union. Their success would increase family incomes for tens of millions of adjunct professors, fast-food, home care and child care workers, among other underpaid workers. Raising wages would also generate significant savings to state and federal governments, and allow them to better target how our tax dollars are used.
Public assistance programs provide a vital support system for American families. But when Americans like Wise, Johnson and Hughes are working as hard as they can and are still paid too little to get by without public support, we need action to raise wages. On Tax Day it is a good time to take a hard look at the high public cost of low wages in the United States.
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