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The real cost of low wages
Ragnarok.Nausi
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-04-22 08:48:46
3. we can fit the entire worlds population side by side in the state of texas and oklahoma put together. So you may want to reconsider the brain washed thinking you and others have that the " world is overpopulated".
Uhhh, the width of Texas plus the width of Oklahoma is about 5 million feet. You're going to fit ~7 billion people side by side in that amount of space? You really, really need to actually research the crap that you say before you call other people brainwashed.
Edit: Unless you were talking about fitting people into that amount of area, which is an awfully strange way of saying it but doesn't really help your point.
In just Texas alone we could fit the world's population each person could have 1 thousand square feet to themselves. That's equivalent to 10 parking spaces. There is research to
back it up.
Am I advocating to do this by no means am I. I apologize for telling you the truth. It seems you are only accustomed to being lied. This is a big world. Blame the folks living in cramped spaces and deserts where they can't grow anything.
Uhh, there's "research" to back it up? This isn't mathematician-grade stuff here. A simple calculator is all you'd need. Regardless, I'm not even concerned about the world's population, so stop assuming that everyone who doesn't follow your particular brand of lunacy is brainwashed. You cited pointless statistics and expected it to actually mean something without taking into regard all the societal and economic factors that affect the world's ability to sustain the human population. That's what I have a problem with.
If Texas was a dense city like Paris or NY, you could fit everyone in the world in it. That's what he means (yes it is true).
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 08:49:54
3. we can fit the entire worlds population side by side in the state of texas and oklahoma put together. So you may want to reconsider the brain washed thinking you and others have that the " world is overpopulated".
Uhhh, the width of Texas plus the width of Oklahoma is about 5 million feet. You're going to fit ~7 billion people side by side in that amount of space? You really, really need to actually research the crap that you say before you call other people brainwashed.
Edit: Unless you were talking about fitting people into that amount of area, which is an awfully strange way of saying it but doesn't really help your point.
In just Texas alone we could fit the world's population each person could have 1 thousand square feet to themselves. That's equivalent to 10 parking spaces. There is research to
back it up.
Am I advocating to do this by no means am I. I apologize for telling you the truth. It seems you are only accustomed to being lied. This is a big world. Blame the folks living in cramped spaces and deserts where they can't grow anything.
Uhh, there's "research" to back it up? This isn't mathematician-grade stuff here. A simple calculator is all you'd need. Regardless, I'm not even concerned about the world's population, so stop assuming that everyone who doesn't follow your particular brand of lunacy is brainwashed. You cited pointless statistics and expected it to actually mean something without taking into regard all the societal and economic factors that affect the world's ability to sustain the human population. That's what I have a problem with.
If Texas was a dense city like Paris or NY, you could fit everyone in the world in it. That's what he means (yes it is true). God damn it, stop advocating people to move to Texas!
We already have our quota of retards, don't add the rest of the world into it!
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Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 09:05:40
So what we have isn't an overpopulation problem, but a problem with how that population is dispersed. The only real solution is to build new urban centers in more remote locations and incentivize the population to move there.
In fairness, I did float the possibility of building new metropolitan areas in North/South Dakota and Kansas!
But really. "Overpopulation" is so much more than figuring out how many people you can give a reasonable amount of space to and then doing some basic counting and division.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-04-22 09:09:18
Quote: 1. United nations
2. The federal reserve or any centralized banking institutions.
3. The council of foreign relations
4. The trilateral commission
5. The ad council
6. No more Republican or Democrats or to put it simply abolish political parties.
7. No more free trade acts because they are anything but free and they destroy nations economies.
all those i listed are the root cause for the problems facing the world. Your a prime example Kingnobody of someone who wants the US to fail in everything that it does. You like people taken advantage of and lied to and robbed. You like the idea of dictating to nations what they can and can not do. You encourage global warfare and mass civilian casualties by use of our own armed forces. You encourage families being broken up, or starving to death do to sanctions or poisoned food and water. You don't love humanity you hate it. You do not wish it to succeed. You do not care about the constitution of the united states of america. I am glad you do not wear the american flag you are a disgrace to this nation your not even apart of it, your not from texas, your a nobody and king of nothing and i hope one day somebody will love you, you sound like someone who needs someone to care about them.
p.s i'll be the first to sign up, i care about you. i want to make better opportunities for you in whatever career path you take. I think you said you do taxes for a living. You would still have a job. Instead of a income tax in america, we can replace it with a national sales tax. That way the federal government keeps its hands out of American families paychecks. Anyways keep on hating if thats all you care about. Just letting you know A Better America is coming and there is nothing you can do about it.
Sincerely Someone who cares about you
Lordgrim
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 09:09:54
Speaking of Texas:
YouTube Video Placeholder
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Garuda.Chanti
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Posts: 11137
By Garuda.Chanti 2015-04-22 09:12:22
Edit: But you are right. Which is why we need to stop having so many *** kids. We're not going to have anything for them to do with the way we keep mechanizing.
Yet we've outbred even China. It isn't breeding. The USA hit the ZPG reproductive rate over 1/2 a century ago.
Its immigration.
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-22 09:21:19
You can pack 25 million people in one square mile. If you give them one square foot each. Texas alone could easily fit the world's population in it with a lot of space left over.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 09:22:58
all those i listed are the root cause for the problems facing the world. Explain each "problem" in your own words, without using any youtube videos or conspiracy theory websites as your "references" or at any way to speak for you or on your behalf. In other words, use your own thoughts and not the thoughts of another person.
Your a prime example Kingnobody of someone who wants the US to fail in everything that it does. You have failed to prove that also. Give us a reason why my words and opinions create discord and destruction to the US economic/political/social systems. I have already given reasons why your ideas create discord and destruction, you have failed to counter at any of them.
You like people taken advantage of and lied to and robbed. You like the idea of dictating to nations what they can and can not do. You encourage global warfare and mass civilian casualties by use of our own armed forces. You encourage families being broken up, or starving to death do to sanctions or poisoned food and water. You don't love humanity you hate it. You do not wish it to succeed. No, I don't. I don't advocate anarchy. But you do. Your very posts signify it.
I am glad you do not wear the american flag you are a disgrace to this nation your not even apart of it, your not from texas, Would you like proof that I am from Texas? What would you like? A picture proving it?
i hope one day somebody will love you, you sound like someone who needs someone to care about them. So? What's your point?
p.s i'll be the first to sign up, i care about you. No thanks. I don't want nor need your affection. In fact, I rather you just disappear from the earth.
i want to make better opportunities for you in whatever career path you take. I think you said you do taxes for a living. You would still have a job. Going by your ideas, you wish to force everyone into slave camps run by the government, because that would be the only way to survive in your "ideal world." Since you wish to have the federal government control everything and anything.
Instead of a income tax in america, we can replace it with a national sales tax. That way the federal government keeps its hands out of American families paychecks. You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. Also, how much do you think the national sales tax rate would have to be in order for the current level of government to survive?
Just letting you know A Better America is coming and there is nothing you can do about it. Yeah, we can hope you can disappear one day. That day will create a better America because you will no longer exist.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 09:29:44
No, I don't. I don't advocate anarchy. But you do. Your very posts signify it.
Quite inversely, KN supports and desires a very rigidly defined social stratification with limited mobility between said striations. That kind of system requires a good many rules and regulations, and people to enforce them.
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-04-22 09:30:30
I think people who have kids because society tells them they should is a bad thing. I never heard of that excuse before. Is that real? It is real.
It was most evident right after WWII when we had movies like "I Remember Mama" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" as propaganda to get women out of the factories and back into their "proper" roles as wives and mothers.
Mid century advertising was FULL of images of happily compliant women.
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Seraph.Ramyrez
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Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 09:33:52
I think people who have kids because society tells them they should is a bad thing. I never heard of that excuse before. Is that real? It is real.
It was most evident right after WWII when we had movies like "I Remember Mama" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" as propaganda to get women out of the factories and back into their "proper" roles as wives and mothers.
Mid century advertising was FULL of images of happily compliant women.
I suspect for so many it's just so commonplace and such a common concept that they honestly don't even realize and would tell you you're wrong when you point it out.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 09:35:21
Quote: Siren.Lordgrim said: Your a prime example Kingnobody of someone who wants the US to fail in everything that it does.
No, I don't. I don't advocate anarchy. But you do. Your very posts signify it. Quite inversely, KN supports and desires a very rigidly defined social stratification with limited mobility between said striations. That kind of system requires a good many rules and regulations, and people to enforce them. Actually, the only real growth we can have in a nation is a fluid social stratification, as not all people in a specific social group (aka the wealthy) actually deserve to stay there. That's why most rich families do not stay rich for more than 3 generations.
I actually welcome a larger middle and upper class, and the only way I can see it is through my ideas of a freer market and stronger innovation. Something that you cannot see in today's political spectrum in the US.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 09:36:04
I think people who have kids because society tells them they should is a bad thing. I never heard of that excuse before. Is that real? It is real.
It was most evident right after WWII when we had movies like "I Remember Mama" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" as propaganda to get women out of the factories and back into their "proper" roles as wives and mothers.
Mid century advertising was FULL of images of happily compliant women. But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 09:38:38
as not all people in a specific social group (aka the wealthy) actually deserve to stay there
Well they're going to as long as we keep seeing things going the way they are; dying protections for the middle and lower class, virtually unlimited golden parachute scenarios for those with millions+.
I mean, ***. Look at Donald Trump. Who lets that guy handle anything? All he knows is how to protect his personal money from his outrageously large corporate blunders.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 09:38:56
But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones.
It still happens...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 09:44:39
dying protections for the middle and lower class Name some.
virtually unlimited golden parachute scenarios for those with millions+. Golden parachutes are only used very rarely. Nearly all scenarios are never exercised.
Do you even know how they come to being?
I mean, ***. Look at Donald Trump. Who lets that guy handle anything? All he knows is how to protect his personal money from his outrageously large corporate blunders. He created his wealth. He did not inherit it, he created it.
If you think he is an idiot, then go ahead, think that. Don't blame me if you continue to stagnate while others grow and pass you by, because you think businessmen/businesswomen are idiots.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 09:45:07
But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones.
It still happens... As people said already, not as often as it used to.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 09:46:33
But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones.
It still happens... As people said already, not as often as it used to.
Oh ffs nevermind. On both topics.
It's always talking in circles with you.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 09:47:51
But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones.
It still happens... As people said already, not as often as it used to.
Oh ffs nevermind. Also, like I said before, I will take your word for it, but I wanted to point out that Chanti was using a past ideal for a present remark...
Garuda.Chanti
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Posts: 11137
By Garuda.Chanti 2015-04-22 10:33:47
But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones. It still happens... As people said already, not as often as it used to. Oh ffs nevermind. Also, like I said before, I will take your word for it, but I wanted to point out that Chanti was using a past ideal for a present remark... It still happens King. Not as blatant as when I was a kid, but it still is out there.
As a prime example today just look at the tabloid TV show "Teen Mom" ....
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-04-22 10:42:42
Lets try to rerail this thread.
Quote: The low wages paid by businesses, including some of the largest and most profitable companies in the U.S. – like McDonald’s and Wal-Mart – are costing taxpayers nearly $153 billion a year. Are you happy with this status quo King? Is anyone save the .01%?
One hundred and fifty three BILLION of our tax dollars in public assistance because people aren't paid a living wage.
And it isn't just burger flippers and Wall-mart greeters. There are non coms in the military on public assistance too.
P. S. If the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation it would be over $15/hour even with the way the government calculates inflation.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 10:51:23
Lets try to rerail this thread.
Quote: The low wages paid by businesses, including some of the largest and most profitable companies in the U.S. – like McDonald’s and Wal-Mart – are costing taxpayers nearly $153 billion a year. Are you happy with this status quo King? Is anyone save the .01%?
One hundred and fifty three BILLION of our tax dollars in public assistance because people aren't paid a living wage.
And it isn't just burger flippers and Wall-mart greeters. There are non coms in the military on public assistance too.
P. S. If the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation it would be over $15/hour even with the way the government calculates inflation. Are you asserting that, if these companies mentioned above actually increased their wages by whatever % you want to increase it by, the amount of money paid to them will decrease? All you would be doing is increasing nominal wages, not real wages, inflation will catch up very quickly and then, these people will require more support from the government to "survive" (meaning live a good lifestyle while providing minimal effort).
Walmart greeters and burger flippers jobs are not there to support a family. People who work those positions with the intention of "supporting their families" off of those jobs are doing it just to get on government assistance. Can't you realize that there are people out there not even willing to give the minimal effort to support their families because they expect others to do it for them? Or are you going to ignore that fact because it's detrimental to your argument?
You do realize that to qualify to receive government assistance, you have to make less than a certain amount of money per year, and most welfare recipients actually stop working when they are coming close to that amount.... Why bother working for the extra buck when you can get somebody to give you a few extra thousand dollars just to live?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 10:53:14
As a prime example today just look at the tabloid TV show "Teen Mom" That's actually a great example.
Why bother graduating high school when you get just get knocked up?
You could further the example with the trend today, that parenting is a full time job. Where parents who let their kids play away from where they live are called 'free range parents.'
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 13:04:54
I think people who have kids because society tells them they should is a bad thing. I never heard of that excuse before. Is that real? It is real.
It was most evident right after WWII when we had movies like "I Remember Mama" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" as propaganda to get women out of the factories and back into their "proper" roles as wives and mothers.
Mid century advertising was FULL of images of happily compliant women. But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones. Actually, you'd be surprised. The number one question that gets asked of me by my co-workers and other people I work around is "Do you have kids?" When I say no, they inquire as to why. If I opt to point out that I'm gay, they almost always say that I could adopt. There really is a weird cultural undercurrent saying that all reasonably adjusted adults should have kids, it just doesn't have much in the way of government propaganda anymore.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 13:07:07
I think people who have kids because society tells them they should is a bad thing. I never heard of that excuse before. Is that real? It is real.
It was most evident right after WWII when we had movies like "I Remember Mama" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" as propaganda to get women out of the factories and back into their "proper" roles as wives and mothers.
Mid century advertising was FULL of images of happily compliant women. But not today. You are advocating the past actions, not present ones. Actually, you'd be surprised. The number one question that gets asked of me by my co-workers and other people I work around is "Do you have kids?" When I say no, they inquire as to why. If I opt to point out that I'm gay, they almost always say that I could adopt. There really is a weird cultural undercurrent saying that all reasonably adjusted adults should have kids, it just doesn't have much in the way of government propaganda anymore. Adopting is never a bad decision though. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Having kids because society tells them they should is something different though. At least, that's the way I understand it.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 13:09:17
Can't you realize that there are people out there not even willing to give the minimal effort to support their families because they expect others to do it for them? You do realize that to qualify to receive government assistance, you have to make less than a certain amount of money per year, and most welfare recipients actually stop working when they are coming close to that amount.... Why bother working for the extra buck when you can get somebody to give you a few extra thousand dollars just to live?
For someone who really likes to give me ***for wanting union/regulatory protections for workers because I don't trust corporations to not all be like a few really big, bad apples...you really, really love to not give anyone on the dole the benefit of the doubt, don't you? As if people want to scrape by an existence on less than $14k/year (number could be off, I'm arbitrarily picking a low wage) + a pittance in food stamps and section 8 housing.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 13:10:03
Adopting is never a bad decision though. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Having kids because society tells them they should is something different though. At least, that's the way I understand it.
He's not attacking adoption in the slightest. He's attacking the idea that there's a societal feeling that, unless you're a freak, you absolutely must have kids.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 13:16:21
Walmart greeters and burger flippers jobs are not there to support a family. People who work those positions with the intention of "supporting their families" off of those jobs are doing it just to get on government assistance. A tangential question arises.
I should point out that I have a lot of family members, myself included, who do work or have worked with the disabled. My brother and I both have a lot of experience working with people who have Downs syndrome and similar permanent intellectual impairments. Pushing a broom, saying hello to customers, or flipping burgers may be literally all that they can do to support themselves.
Is it right that they cannot? I suspect the likely answer I'll get is, "Well, the government ought to be assisting people in those kinds of situations." Should it? Wouldn't that run counter to the whole idea of big government hand-holding us? If someone with trisomy 21 (Downs syndrome) is capable of maintaining a household and job, as many of them are, but simply cannot master the skills necessary to move above the bottom-most rung of labor, what ought to happen? Should we let them sit on the dole all their lives, should we drown them at birth, should we actually let them have an independent and happy life by encouraging employers to pay them adequately for the service they can give?
I won't even get started on all the shitty looks and remarks these people get because they're trying to support themselves.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 13:16:23
Can't you realize that there are people out there not even willing to give the minimal effort to support their families because they expect others to do it for them? You do realize that to qualify to receive government assistance, you have to make less than a certain amount of money per year, and most welfare recipients actually stop working when they are coming close to that amount.... Why bother working for the extra buck when you can get somebody to give you a few extra thousand dollars just to live?
For someone who really likes to give me ***for wanting union/regulatory protections for workers because I don't trust corporations to not all be like a few really big, bad apples...you really, really love to not give anyone on the dole the benefit of the doubt, don't you? As if people want to scrape by an existence on less than $14k/year. When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.
If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts.... just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-04-22 13:17:42
That's why I said that it's not something that solely affects women. There have and still are certain places where it's important to not only have a marriage but to have kids as well to be looked at as normal/wholesome and might even effect job advancement.
That idea of how things should be has faded though.
Think of it like this... when you have abuddy who is a stay at home dad and the mom is out making all the moola the first thought that seems to come into many peoples minds is not usually a positive one for the man lol...
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Americans are spending $153 billion a year to subsidize McDonald’s and Wal-Mart’s low wage workers
The Washington post
And because its behind a paywall....
Quote: The low wages paid by businesses, including some of the largest and most profitable companies in the U.S. – like McDonald’s and Wal-Mart – are costing taxpayers nearly $153 billion a year.
After decades of wage cuts and health benefit rollbacks, more than half of all state and federal spending on public assistance programs goes to working families who need food stamps, Medicaid, or other support to meet basic needs. Let that sink in — American taxpayers are subsidizing people who work — most of them full-time (in some case more than full-time) because businesses do not pay a living wage.
Workers like Terrence Wise, a 35-year-old father who works part-time at McDonald’s and Burger King in Kansas City, Mo., and his fiancée Myosha Johnson, a home care worker, are among millions of families in the U.S. who work an average of 38 hours per week but still rely on public assistance. Wise is paid $8.50 an hour at his McDonald’s job and $9 an hour at Burger King. Johnson is paid just above $10 an hour, even after a decade in her field. Wise and Johnson together rely on $240 a month in food stamps to feed their three kids, a cost borne by taxpayers.
The problem of low wages and the accompanying public cost extends far beyond the fast-food industry. Forty-eight percent of home care workers rely on public assistance. In child care, it’s 46 percent. Among part-time college faculty—some of the most highly educated workers in the country—it’s 25 percent.
Ebony Hughes is paid $7.50 an hour as a home care worker in Durham, N.C., and has a second job at a local KFC. While the home care industry has the fastest growing number of jobs in America, these workers are some of the lowest paid in the country – earning, on average, $13,000 a year. To get enough hours to pay the bills, Hughes works from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. But she and her daughter still rely on public assistance to make ends meet.
UC Berkeley’s Center for Labor Research and Education, which I chair, has analyzed state spending for Medicaid/Children’s Health Insurance Program and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, and federal spending for those programs as well as food stamps and the Earned Income Tax Credit.
We found that, on average, 52 percent of state public assistance spending supports working families (defined as working for at least 26 weeks a year and 10 hours a week) – with costs as high as $3.7 billion in California, $3.3 billion in New York, and $2 billion in Texas.
In recent months, the substantial public cost of low wages has prompted elected officials to take action. Legislators in California, Colorado, Maine, Oregon, and Washington are considering increasing the minimum wage to $12 an hour. In Connecticut, a proposal currently moving through the state legislature would fine large companies that pay low wages in an effort to recoup the costs imposed on taxpayers.
When 73 percent of people who benefit from major public assistance programs live in a working family, our economy isn’t operating the way it should – and could – be. From 2003-2013, inflation-adjusted wages fell for the entire bottom 70 percent of the workforce. Over the same time period we have also seen a large decline in the share of Americans with job-based health coverage.
Today – on Tax Day – underpaid workers are striking and protesting in cities across the country and around the globe to call for $15 an hour and the right to form a union. Their success would increase family incomes for tens of millions of adjunct professors, fast-food, home care and child care workers, among other underpaid workers. Raising wages would also generate significant savings to state and federal governments, and allow them to better target how our tax dollars are used.
Public assistance programs provide a vital support system for American families. But when Americans like Wise, Johnson and Hughes are working as hard as they can and are still paid too little to get by without public support, we need action to raise wages. On Tax Day it is a good time to take a hard look at the high public cost of low wages in the United States.
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