Veuglaire

I happened to be going through the hunt registry and i came across a NM that drops this gun "Veuglaire" and I was wondering your thoughts on this. I know our Hex Guns are trash maybe best used for pulling only but this one has a unique stat that no other weapon in the game offers
Magic attack not to get confused with MAB.

"wiki"
*Magic Attack is specific to the Blue Mage and Corsair jobs. For Blue Mage, it is applied via the Job Ability Convergence.Unlike Magic Attack Bonus, which augments the potency of all offensive magic,Quick Draw, and certain Weaponskills,Magic Attack is a direct percentage increase in magical spell damage. For offensive magical spells that are unaffected by the 7 primary attributes, such as Heat Breath and 1000 Needles, each point of Convergence adds a 5% direct damage increase, with a maximum of 25% additional damage under a fully merited Convergence.
The only item in the game that adds to a character's Magic Attack directly is Veuglaire, a Corsair's gun".



My question is how does this add up on QD vs corsair gun+1. Cor gun+1 is +7 more gun damage but Veug gives 5% more direct Damage percentage wise and +5 Macc. So which do you think does more damage on QD the +7 gun dam from C.Gun or the 5% M.att and +5 Macc from Veuglaire. Also does any 1 have this and tested it out supply
numbers if possible ty :)

Edit: Also would it be great for Lead Salute if not the best?(joytoy TP)

MAB+5 only adds 5% damage if you have no other MAB gear. I'm no COR but you should at least have Uggalepih Pendant, among other things.

That said, I think that DMG+5 and MAB+5 are pretty close to each other, so Veuglaire would have the benefit of M.ACC+5, whereas Corsair's Gun has the benefit of >.> Not completely sucking during regular ranged attacks. SO I guess if you're solo, Veuglaire. And if you're in a merit party or whatever, Corsair's Gun.

Then again, I could be completely off.

Fairly dependent on your QD gear and subjob really. Do the math

[2*(Gun DMG + Ammo DMG)*(1+MAB%) + (Corsair's Tricorne Bonus)]*(Staff)*(Day)*(Weather).

Come on Cors I want some input on this. :)

*I found this on another site math seems to be right*

[2*(Gun DMG + Ammo DMG)*(1+MAB%) + (Corsair's Tricorne Bonus)]*(Staff)*(Day)*(Weather)

For the sake of simplicity let's ignore everything but gun and ammo dmg.

Corsair's Gun +1 dmg 42
Steel Bullet dmg 70

2*(42+70) = 224

Veuglaire dmg 35
Steel Bullet dmg 70

2*(35+70) = 210 * 1.05 = 220

Now add in some common QD equipment, and for fun assume matching day and double weather.

Corsair's Gun +1
Steel Bullet
HQ Staff (15%)
Corsair's Tricorne (10 dmg increase)
Uggalepih Pendant (8 MAB)
Moldavite Earring (5 MAB)
Mirke Wardecors (4 MAB)
Denali Kecks (3 MAB)
Sea Obi (35%)

[[2*(42+70)]*1.20+10]*1.15*1.35 = 432

Replace Corsair's Gun +1 with Veuglaire again,

[[2*(35+70)]*1.20+10]*1.15*1.35 = 406 * 1.05 = 426

Its close but I think the numbers will differ
if more Mab gear is added like nov earing and /blm
/rdm or /blu
as Dav said earlier

any 1 wanna try this on Lead Salute?

It will definitely favor this gun alot more for leaden salute. For 1 as a magical ws weapon dmg is irrelevant. Actually that's it lol. That being said agi is huge in it see as it is counted twice. Assuming 100% tp each agi would add 2 dmg before magic attack/MAB/staff/day etc. So a peacemaker under some circumstances might be better idk have to do the math. Sadly even though from 100-200% ftp goes from 4.0 to 4.25 martial gun wont even compare to this unless the mob has almost as much or more than you have agi.

Tried and tested, by myself, a friend and I've read a few threads with tests on forums. Corsair's Gun is still the superior option for damage and spike, but this gun might be better for consistency if your other QD gear is lackluster. That is to say, if your accuracy isn't giving you consistently high draws, or if you're using it on high level monsters, this gun could be better. Note it says COULD be better, it depends entirely on your setup. Individual parsing might be necessary to really find out one way or another, but mathematically it works out less damage pretty much all the time due to the very high difference in dmg (for base weapons and the stat all calculations are based around, 6 is a huge difference.)

A good rough guideline to use would be to say MAB is +X% of damage on every quick draw, whereas the base damage of a gun is +Y+X%, Y being the base damage of your quick draw that the MAB is then being calculated as a % of. Compare it to STR on weapon skills before modifier calculation. You will always have higher results raising the base than raising your total by a percentage of the base.

Throw some random (totally fictional) figures in just to prove this:

1000 (base) + 10% (100) = 1100.

1000 (base) +100 = 1100, plus 10% (110) = 1210.

Obviously these were made up off the top of my head, and apply to nothing in reality. Just to give an example of this kind of thinking.

Remember Quick Draw's calculation bases everything damage wise around the base damage of your gun, with MAB being the modifier. With a lower base but a higher percentage boost, you have to be getting seriously epic increases to warrant a big loss (6 base damage is quite a big difference) in the base. Unless Magic Attack is infact MAB on steroids, +5 will not make up for this. The accuracy, however, might in situations where without if you'll be getting consistently resisted shots. Hard to think of a situation where +5 Macc is really going to make or break you, but it's food for thought nonetheless.

However, presuming COR is your only job and you're a perfectionist, this gun (Veuglaire) is the best option for accuracy only dependent shots (Light & Dark). For somebody like me who doesn't main COR all the time and uses it in limited circumstances, I could care less about 5 Macc for Light & Dark shot and I'd sooner spend my time more constructively.

Also, leaden salute: Who really cares? It's pretty but Slug Shot is the superior WS for damage more or less all the time. Anything you can't Slug Shot you shouldn't be going DD (DD in the shoot bullets / melee to WS sense, not QD sense) COR to because you won't be TPing it anyway.

PS. In calculations, keep it simple by not adding weather bonuses or anything in. We want to know which gun is better, not which gun is better under the perfect scenario. You could say X item is better because on Y day when Z is equal to or bigger than B, is better. But really who cares? The base without all the fancy modifiers is what matters and what these modifiers are based off of, and doing the QD equations without all those modifiers, DMG wise Corsair's wins. Because with the same % calculated, the one with the higher base will win. That's pretty simple logic. Same percentage being calculated for both items since why would you intentionally use a weaker/stronger MAB set when finding out which is better?

PPS: Irrelevant to the topic, but I lol'd anyway:

This seems dense. Ice Shot could break bind so why would you risk breaking it (if it's a bind worth augmenting) to make it strong?

As far as the math goes since it is all multiplied all those other things at the end don't matter and only really need [2*(Gun DMG + Ammo DMG)*(1+MAB%) + (Corsair's Tricorne Bonus)]. So Figuring we wukk always have tricorn and we know the base dmgs just need to find out how much MAB is needed to make them equal.

So:
Veuglaire dmg=35
corsiar+1 dmg=42
steel bullet+1=70
Tricorne bonus=10

[2*(Gun DMG + Ammo DMG)*(1+MAB%) + (Corsair's Tricorne Bonus)]=[2*(Gun DMG + Ammo DMG)*(1+MAB%) + (Corsair's Tricorne Bonus)]*1.05

2*(42+70)*(MAB)+10= 1.5*(2*(35+70)*(MAB)+10)

2*112*MAB+10= 1.05*2*105*MAB+10.5

224*MAB+10= 220.5*MAB+10.5

3.5MAB=.5
MAB=.1428 And considering base MAB is 1.0... the mob would need some serious MDB to make your MAB which is really a MAB/MDB factor that low. And by serious MDB I mean like 7 times whatever MAB you have. So like at least +600

after finding inconsistancies with formulars online and the results i was getting, i decided to do some testing with verying factors.
Corsair's Gun+1 & Steel Bullets is what i used throughout the whole thing & did 3 shots on the same lvl range of mobs (la thain platue) & these are the results i got

Base damage with nothing: 224

+Corsair's Tricorn only: 234 (+10 increase)
+HQ Staff only: 257 (+15% increase)
+MAB+30 only: 291 (+30% increase)
+single weather bonus or day only: 246 (+10% increase)

+Corsair's Tricorn & MAB+30: 304 (+10 & then +30%)
+Corsair's Tricorn & HQ Staff: 269 (+10 & then +15%)
+Corsair's Tricorn & MAB+30 & HQ Staff: 349 (+10 & then +30% & +15%[doesnt matter which way you add those %'s, comes to same result)

this is the formular on wiki
[2*(Gun base DMG + bullet base DMG)*(1+(MAB/100))+Corsair's Tricorne bonus)]*(staff bonus)*(Day/Weather Bonus)

so using that formular i should be(not using weather/day bonus): [224*1.30+10]*(1.15)= 346

which was not the 349 i was seeing

so i belive the formular should be (putting the cor hat in a diff place):
[2*(Gun base DMG + bullet base DMG)+Corsair's Tricorne bonus]*(1+(MAB/100))*(staff bonus)*(Day/Weather Bonus)

using the revised formular it is: (224+10)*(1.30)*(1.15) = 349

exactly what i was getting


getting back to the topic though, the decreased DMG on Vauglaire deacreases the effectiveness of each MAB since 5% of 35 is 1.75, yet 5% of 42 is 2.1

even with no other sorce of MAB, even NQ Corsair's Gun is better for damage than Veuglaire
NQ Corsair's Gun: 2*(41+70) = 222
Veuglaire: 2*(35+70)*1.05 = 220
so even without any other type of MAB, NQ cor gun still beats the veuglaire

that being said, i do have a Veuglaire for light/dark shot as the Macc+5 is nice, and it was fun to solo the NM as cor, gave me something to do in my spare time (and its fun to cruise around with a rare/ex gun)

(sorry if something is off, its 5am when i did this)

Its still close nq beats it by 2 but Veuglaire gives you +5 macc so id think on HNM NM ect with high resistance the +5 macc from Veug would beat out the nq.corsair's gun.

It isn't quite that simple.

Simply put, lowering the base of the gun lowers the numbers of the entire formula; so your accuracy is raising accuracy of smaller possible damage, smaller minimum damage, etc. The whole result(s) of your formulas are going down as a result. In order for the accuracy to compensate for a considerable difference in base (6 damage between this gun and Corsair's Gun), the accuracy has to make up the missing averages from the base difference.

5 Magic Accuracy on the gun? Just won't cover that. 50 MACC, maybe. On its own, 5 MACC won't make that much of an impact. Other gear doesn't come into it; the other gear is consistent on both guns.

As I said, unless Magic Attack is MAB on steroids, Corsair's Gun will more or less all the time beat Veuglaire. "This gun has more accuracy, it must be better"; nope. Quick Draws isn't like meleeing.

Look at macc formulas. 5macc can indeed make a significant difference especially considering a resist is 1/2 dmg at best. And the dmg difference between them isn't huge

Well you should be worrying about more than 5 Macc on a gun if your accuracy is that bad.

If by that bad you mean not capped sure... really though what else should you be worrying about if all you doing is buffing and QDing?

I mean gear wise. If your accuracy is that bad that you need to seek out accuracy on the gun, thus sacrificing the damage, then you're either in need of some work gear wise, or you're QDing the wrong things.

Just my opinion either way, I never had many problems with resists on Kirin, but I could have gone much more useful jobs.

we not talking if you have enough Macc we're comparing gun for gun only. My point is gun for gun the damage difference is only +2 in favor of C.gun but on high resistant mobs. Where as you would get resisted 2 out of 5 shots are resisted meaning dam cut in half V. gun might have you resisted 1 out of five then V.Gun might win.

5 Macc does not equal 20% accuracy, lol. I think you're presuming Macc is having a bigger effect than it is in this comparison.

Well I was given the impression QD acc depends on Macc not Racc.

What are you on about? lol

1/5 = 20%.

So 1/5 compared to 2/5 is 20% difference; 5 Macc is the only difference, and it's not 20% accuracy increase in a million years.

Actually it is agi... and maybe macc. Also above 50% hitrate 1macc gives +1% hitrate. Below 50% it is only .5%.

5% more often more 1/2 resist would lower dmg by 2.5%

QD acc i have found to be effected by macc aswell as agi, not sure to what extent, but definatly both do help alot

i dont have many problems with landing unresisted shots, main key is to use shots weak to the mob ur fighting, in 4 Ouryu's i only had 2 half resissted wind shots, and to the best of my knowlage that thing is quite resistant

even my Elvaan friend who duo's things with me gets very few resists(more than i do though), and elvaan have the lowest AGI in the game

I dont care what anyone says about mag acc, mag attack, etc etc, best QD gun ever, best for whatever, blah blah blah, I want this gun! I will suck *** for it. Let's arrange this.

Yet Corsair's Gun is the better gun for about 50k? That doesn't make much sense. =\

I augmented my corsair's gun. It has vit+1 and mnd+2. Epic I know. GO GO valley of sorrows.

Accuracy seems to have a pretty low 'cap' on quick draw... Resists are only really noticeable on the 90s monsters if you don't have a good AGI & MACC build. For example, if you land 99/100 unresisted Wind Shots on Kirin, you win the game; because it's nearly impossible to do that even with oodles of accuracy due to his high level.

I seem to have noticed that around 120+ AGI any additional AGI is superfluous. Parsing at 119 AGI on Kirin and 146 the following run (with the aid of a BRD song) and there was a <1% difference in overall damage over the period of an hour. Same for a friend as well in a similar situation.

Though, with regards to levels, it seems, to us at least, that you can't hit 95% accuracy on Kirin whatever you do. BRD songs, Warlock's Roll, good accuracy build, and you still get a load of resists.

In our opinion, this is to essentially stop COR from becoming a broken DoT DD. We could be completely wrong, but our COR's are very well geared for this purpose.

A friend got DMG+1 on his. Shame it wasn't +1, although it saved him 500k-1m.

My best augment on a Corsair's gun was I think +1 M.Acc, was hoping for M.Atk but guess I shouldn't be complaining.

Didn't really save him any gil. NQ corsair's gun is fine in my book unless your a hardcore cor nm soloer with W legs and your making despot your *** in sky as we speak.

well if you are lucky to get mab+2 on augmented C.gun thast different lucky its only 20k on my server so i'm going invest maybe 100k in 5 guns in hopes i can catch a mab+2 but Veug still looks better and its the best hex gun hands down so i'll get 1 just to say i have it ect ... lol

just go solo the NM, can be done easy without the aid of any move speed, even mediocor QD set is enough to bring this thing down, its easy to kill PH's & easy to kill the NM, just takes time

i do alot of QD soloing as cor, just because its fun, these are ones i have done: Despot(+PH), Mahishasura(+PH), Cookieduster Lipiroon(+PH), Boompadu, Chigre, Wulgaru, Brass Borer, Anantaboga, Aquarius

some easier than others, some NM's i have tried to solo have ended up in failure, but fun to try none the less

Jetu's posts helped me a lot.
Anyway, I've done my own testing with Veuglaire on QD and agree with the posts already made, what it lacks in damage it makes up for in Macc. It's mostly useful for light and dark shots.

I'm wondering about Leaden Salute though. If the magic attack doesn't affect that either, Peacemaker would still be the best cause of its +5 AGI, no?