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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-16 06:59:53
Surely based on the existing complaints from the JP community they wouldn't limit the access like this. Or maybe they would /troll.
Bold of you to think they'd give a ***. Sortie basement bosses are pretty limiting on possible job combos too. Their design philosophy now seems to be to herd us into curated party compositions and intentionally throttle accessibility. On one hand it allows tighter tolerances on monster difficulty. On the other hand it's anathema to the core philosophy of the job system. They probably no longer have the time to even try to have both.
One could also argue, I suppose, that the flexibility of the job system is what enables them to have NMs that require certain jobs to take down since you don't have to make a whole new character or something in order to execute different strategies. Swings and roundabouts.
 Asura.Jokes
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 182
By Asura.Jokes 2022-12-16 07:20:21
I’d love to see a video of the devs clearing the bosses in pre-release tests, if they even did…
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2521
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-12-16 07:38:03
Not to white knight for SE or anything but like...do all these cynics think that all content released in the last 20 years has been able to be cleared by complete coincidence and luck?
I mean, AV and PW are possibly exceptions, imho, but every other boss and piece of content ever released in the history of the game has been killable, including all the most recent content they created. Yet still there are people who espouse the idea that SE does no testing, validation, or game design when they create this content.
Do you all think they're just THAT lucky, or what?
Asura.Jokes
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 182
By Asura.Jokes 2022-12-16 07:46:15
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Not to white knight for SE or anything but like...do all these cynics think that all content released in the last 20 years has been able to be cleared by complete coincidence and luck?
I mean, AV and PW are possibly exceptions, imho, but every other boss and piece of content ever released in the history of the game has been killable, including all the most recent content they created. Yet still there are people who espouse the idea that SE does no testing, validation, or game design when they create this content.
Do you all think they're just THAT lucky, or what?
I think they tested it and I'd love to know what setup and tactics they planned. For V25 but also for V15/V20, and if it was different to the ways we actually cleared the content (which i'm guessing it is).
Bahamut.Belkin
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Bahamut.Belkin 2022-12-16 07:47:19
I think they tested it and I'd love to know what setup and tactics they planned. For V25 but also for V15/V20, and if it was different to the ways we actually cleared the content (which i'm guessing it is).
I mostly certainly wish to see the video of the devs doing Mboze and Bumba on V25. I am not insinuating that they couldn't do it, but I want to see what the intended methods were.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-16 07:52:59
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Not to white knight for SE or anything but like...do all these cynics think that all content released in the last 20 years has been able to be cleared by complete coincidence and luck?
I mean, AV and PW are possibly exceptions, imho, but every other boss and piece of content ever released in the history of the game has been killable, including all the most recent content they created. Yet still there are people who espouse the idea that SE does no testing, validation, or game design when they create this content.
Do you all think they're just THAT lucky, or what?
I think they tested it and I'd love to know what setup and tactics they planned. For V25 but also for V15/V20, and if it was different to the ways we actually cleared the content (which i'm guessing it is).
They didn't test squat, they observed how we were fighting them then looked to see what Giant *** Wrenches they could throw in to make it more "challenging". Then released it to us with the understanding that if things didn't work out as planned, they could just dial it back in six to twelve months.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2521
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-12-16 08:00:10
They didn't test squat, they observed how we were fighting them then looked to see what Giant *** Wrenches they could throw in to make it more "challenging". Then released it to us with the understanding that if things didn't work out as planned, they could just dial it back in six to twelve months.
Interesting theory. Could you give some examples of content which was released, nobody cleared it for 6-12 months, and then SE released a patch to change the content so that people could clear it for the first time?
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-16 08:05:41
We know that they at least had an idea of how they wanted us to clear odyssey fights since they said that our method of killing mboze didn't align with their intentions. So at the very least there is deliberate design and tuning being done.
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 829
By Asura.Iamaman 2022-12-16 08:37:12
Valefor.Prothescar said: »We know that they at least had an idea of how they wanted us to clear odyssey fights since they said that our method of killing mboze didn't align with their intentions. So at the very least there is deliberate design and tuning being done.
Where did they say that? I must have missed it, because during the AMA the question was asked about whether or not the strategies used in Ody aligned with expectations, their response was that they did. I believe you are right when you say that the strat we used didn't line up, but I'm just curious where they said it.
The AMA answer was a surprising response, though, specifically because of Mboze. I have a hard time believing they considered a non-ilvl BST pets TP drain move as the predominant strategy there, but I also don't know what they expected people to do when you throw an AoE death move that the mob uses at the end of a fight and give it a ton of magic resistance. It either tells me there is a mechanic we're missing or it is yet another disconnect between what they think people will do and what we will. This one in particular I would love to see the devs fight with the intended strat.
I feel like with Bumba they are using moves like Rampart and Valiance to resist Denounce, then using what little time it buys you to proc.
It's also somewhat possible they expected people to do multiple KI runs at earlier levels, but I don't see how that would solve Mboze who can one shot the whole party at 1k TP below 25%
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Interesting theory. Could you give some examples of content which was released, nobody cleared it for 6-12 months, and then SE released a patch to change the content so that people could clear it for the first time?
pandamonium warden got nerfed, I think another ToAU boss did also IIRC? To be fair though, they got a lot of negative press over that one because of people getting physically ill after fighting it for 12+ hours
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-16 08:40:36
Idr where they said it, I don't think it was in the AMA. They were surprised by the strat we were using at the time and claimed it wasn't how they thought we'd fight it, and people were asking how they did intend for us to fight it (was a lot of confusion since I believe we already had the tp denial and pld/water ele strats). That's all I remember. Could've been a freshly picked or an interview or something, no idea.
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Ragnarok.Bepe
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 202
By Ragnarok.Bepe 2022-12-16 08:44:48
We tried Gigelorium V25 last night with WHM RDM BRD PLD WAR MNK. Now I'm thinking it was a bit overkill with WHM RDM and PLD. We got it to 50%, making good time, but we had slept the add on top of the boss. When the add woke up, gigelorium did tail thwack and the add followed up immediately with an AoE spin, in a 1, 2, Wombo combo that dropped both DDs! We learned our lesson!
I am also glad to hear there is a regen hp lock. Might have to do a B team for gige.
Side Note: Master level sub jobs abilities keep throwing me off when I make parties. I'm so used to nice and relaxed Sortie now, when I go to Odyssey and think "Oh the RDM can just use Curaga III, we don't need a WHM!" then I remember about the sub job lock and my soul is crushed.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-16 08:51:25
PUP + SMN combo is still my fave for gige. Maybe use PLD for team a pup smn for the kill if you can't swing it in 1 lockout
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 08:52:51
Did a B-team Gigelorum chip run earlier where we took it to 74% then basically played footsies with the add for the remaining 12~ minutes (we did not kill the add).
What setup did you use for B team? I was thinking RUN/SCH/GEO/DNC/BLU/something (SMN? BST?) but I was wondering how effective that team would be at milking boss from 100% to 74% but if you are saying you had a B team get him to 74% in like 3 minutes, you could definitely get him to the 49% threshold to lock that in whilst still ignoring the first add.
Then heck, you could use Phone 2 real party to even kill the first add if you were so inclined and still have enough time to kill the boss from 50%. Or you could simply continue to ignore both adds.
I'm really glad you mentioned HP threshold lock, seems like that will come in handy.
B team was - RUN COR DRK DNC BST WHM. On a subsequent run, we swapped DNC out for BLU, just because of the job comp and we wanted to test some things out.
DRK was using Club and doing the majority of the damage with Judgement
BST applied Purulent Ooze and Corrosive Ooze at start, and used Beast Killer Instinct prior to fighting. Switched back to Raaz and used Sweeping Gouge. Ready moves are not walled
DNC used steps, Haste Samba (didn't have Ambu H2H at the time, so he just tanked the add and healed the group with Waltzes where necessary).
PUP or SMN would have been immensely useful here, as robot could tank the add entirely without ever breaking normal routine on main boss and SMN can do Blood Pacts, which are not walled from WS either. Plus apply buffs, favors, etc. BLU definitely has play here, can heal, enfeeble if Ooze is down or not getting reapplied, Mighty Guard. The Ambuscade H2H would have been helpful on DNC as well.
We simply used what we had available in the group.
Longer context below
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- After getting it to 74%, we pretty much stopped doing any meaningful damage to it, as you're just counteracting the Regen and timing out from there and the objective was met. I think a B team strat has the potential to do more damage to the add or main boss than we did, possibly killing the add, we just didn't particularly care to focus that hard on it. The first setup ended with the add at 83% from just the DNC attacking it, and the main boss was back up to 78%. The add also does not have a WS wall nor any weapon resistances, so the DNC was able to do full damage from Climactic Rudras with the limited buffs he had (basically level 10 box step and that's it).
Anyways, I do want to reiterate that you do NOT need a B team setup to do any of the T2 bosses; On our first few runs using MNK WAR PLD RDM BRD COR, we took Gig to sub 20%. It was a learning experience and the initial trial runs helped a lot. We ran into a few problems like capping hate on Gig and it ended up turning and hitting people with Debilitating Spout (seriously, F this guy). Also, there was some positioning, communication and otherwise strategy mishaps that we ran into just based off of inexperience that we ended up working out. After a few attempts, we felt confident we could clear it using 2 runs.
The winning strat involved swapping out COR for GEO and ride Fury+Barrier, using Bolster at 40%, and alternating between WAR's MS Judgement and MNK's 3k TP Footwork TKs. Also popped HF at 40%. Communicating who would do damage at what point also helped tremendously to not have the damage lopsided any one way, where that particular DD might take hate and lose all of his buffs from Debilitating Spout. It was more balanced this way.
We certainly could have used the winning setup in 1 phone and cleared the boss once we learned how the fight works. We just happened to win doing it in two fights. The advantage of taking the boss down from 76%->0% is much more favorable than doing it from full health. The only boss that we used 2 phones for was Gigelorum because he's PITA, every other fight we used 1 phone and cleared it without much trouble. I will say that Gigelorum is an absolute beeeyooootch and I foresee many groups having issues on him.
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Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 08:57:13
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Idr where they said it, I don't think it was in the AMA. They were surprised by the strat we were using at the time and claimed it wasn't how they thought we'd fight it, and people were asking how they did intend for us to fight it (was a lot of confusion since I believe we already had the tp denial and pld/water ele strats). That's all I remember. Could've been a freshly picked or an interview or something, no idea.
It may not have been as it sounded, but I did take it the same way you did. It could, however, have been interpreted as "Oh, that's creative, didn't see players doing that to beat the boss. We thought people would do it THIS way". I assume they wanted people to use BST, SMN, and DRG pets to have extra bodies in range to eat Tiiimbeeer damage. In either case, SE definitely adjusted a lot of mechanics in V25 that were not present in the lower tiers, so they clearly felt the need to throw as many obstacles in the way to deter strategies that they didn't properly think through as being an effective clear method.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-16 08:58:30
Well if it's possible for it to actually not regen it's HP between fights like before, then I can see using weaker teams to work it's HP down then a final push with the strongest DD's to kill. Depending on how much HP the adds have, this might be a better idea then trying to kill the first, though that massive regen + 10s WS Wall still becomes an issue.
Serveur: Valefor
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Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-16 08:59:03
PUP or SMN would have been immensely useful here, as robot could tank the add entirely without ever breaking normal routine on main boss and SMN can do Blood Pacts, which are not walled from WS either. Plus apply buffs, favors, etc.
Yeah. To expand on my previous post, both smn and pup working together makes this nm so much easier. The puppet doesn't care about zombie or dispel, and this is one of those fights where Pacifying Ruby is busted. A 20s BP smn can ensure that the boss never breaks off of the auto. Doesn't help for the adds of course, but nullifying the main boss still has perks.
Bahamut.Belkin
Serveur: Bahamut
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Posts: 474
By Bahamut.Belkin 2022-12-16 08:59:49
Thanks for the reply Buukki!
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 09:04:32
Valefor.Prothescar said: »PUP or SMN would have been immensely useful here, as robot could tank the add entirely without ever breaking normal routine on main boss and SMN can do Blood Pacts, which are not walled from WS either. Plus apply buffs, favors, etc.
Yeah. To expand on my previous post, both smn and pup working together makes this nm so much easier. The puppet doesn't care about zombie or dispel, and this is one of those fights where Pacifying Ruby is busted. A 20s BP smn can ensure that the boss never breaks off of the auto. Doesn't help for the adds of course, but nullifying the main boss still has perks.
Yeah, I have underestimated gearing my PUP to max level for years now, and I don't even have SMN at level 99. I would agree that these two jobs are small heroes that people probably wouldn't consider in Odyssey, but they have enormous play. As it turned out, nobody in our group had either job, or if they did, it would leave us absent of some other essential job in our main group.
I now have to get my PUP ready, because I can see PUP being essential for a few fights at least on a B-team, particularly Ngai or Arebati.
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Serveur: Valefor
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Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-16 09:05:47
Yes, pup is outstanding on ngai. Can control an add and still contribute to dmg on the boss. Due to the WS wall it might even be able to contribute a little more than usual relative to the blu or mnk that you'd have as a main DD since verethragna's white dmg would still be pretty good.
Also can't discount how good overdrive can be to shave some life off of a boss. The puppet can do multiple damage types, doesn't need an entire party to support it (maybe toss it your GEO or COR), and isn't affected by the WS wall so it can be used to soften the target. Won't be outrageous damage don't get me wrong, but it'd be at minimum similar to purulent ooze.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 09:15:58
It is easy to accept that I am bad at game, but that bad that we could not move it from 40%? You just 100% to 0% Henwen in a single phone ignoring both adds?
What exactly was the setup on Henwen then? We were PLD/MNK/WAR/BRD/COR/WHM. You must've had a different setup. MNK was Verethragna white damage only, WAR was Judgment every 10 seconds.
Forgive me, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this based on what I just witnessed first hand.
You are going to want to swap that COR for an Idris GEO, as Fury would be stronger than Chaos roll, and SAM's roll is devalued with the 10s wall. Chaos simply cannot compare to Bolster Fury under the 40% push, where you need all the dps you can get. Could do Rogues if you were dead set on a COR, as JA reset enhancements are helpful. I felt the GEO was a better option than COR for the clears. Also, MNK does not need to only do white damage. During Footwork and Bolster, Tornado Kicks skyrocket for more than judgment can do, so not using that you are missing out on a lot of damage. You should alternate opportunities to maximize the most dps possible. Like MS should be only WAR on Judgment, but HF should be synced during your Footwork so you get the enhanced kick damage, attack speed, kick rate, and higher effective TP Tornado Kicks.
By Serjero 2022-12-16 09:30:40
The problem is we can't even be sure what SE intended due to how many mechanics have changed. The WS wall really only made sense if you were looking only at Bumba especially since two of the Tier 3s have an aura that's only removable from multi-step skillchains and one that you have to spam multiple WSs in a tight window where the wall just flies in the face of what the game is telling you to do. Originally on the V20s if you killed the add in one run and re-entered it would respawn making that strategy completely worthless so the only way to actually win was by just powering/healing through it or having something like RDM or BRD deal with it.
As far as Mboze goes, I'm not really sure what SE expected. With a move like timber you only have two options, either survive it, or prevent it and both strategies were utilized between V15 and V20.
Shiva.Thorny
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2777
By Shiva.Thorny 2022-12-16 09:43:58
Do we know if a valiance element works on timber? It's been ages since the early threads and I don't feel like digging through them, but someone recently commented on JPs using it for denounce. That wouldn't be too hard to maintain for most of a run with a COR present. Of course, multiple runs for adds is still going to complicate things..
Given that regen doesn't matter, the optimal configuration for many of these is probably to run a zerg setup to get it to 40%, second setup to clear both adds, and third setup to choke down the remaining 40%.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 09:49:08
As far as Mboze goes, I'm not really sure what SE expected. With a move like timber you only have two options, either survive it, or prevent it and both strategies were utilized between V15 and V20.
All of these fights have a theme and allow for different jobs, so it's more than likely that SE designed Mboze to be a collaborative-effort type of fight with pets involved. I don't even think they thought about Rampart specifically. There aren't a lot of pet-oriented fights in this game anymore, so I believe Mboze was their way of allowing at least one of these fights to have an advantage if using extra bodies in range of Tiiimbeeer. It just so happened that players realized they could completely neutralize the move by TP reduction. I don't even give SE the credit of knowing that a TP-denial strategy is a thing in the modern game; we also use the same thing on Aminon. The probably had no idea people would circumvent their design in that way in favor of a more consistent approach.
I am not on Mboze V25 yet, but if I had to take a wild guess into the future, I would say that SE probably nerfed TP Drainkiss, Mew, or TP reduction in some way on Mboze or other bosses to force people back into the intended strategy they had in mind. Because if they didn't people are probably going to use that same method for V25 Mboze (Though I think a pet-focused fight would be fun for a change)
By Serjero 2022-12-16 10:01:29
There are what 5 pet jobs in the game. Two of them has a pet on a 20 min CD, another is limited to 2 JAs one on a 20 min one on a 5 Min CD. Which leaves you with SMN and GEO as respammable pets to absorb damage after the first Timber kills everything else if canopierce already hasn't not to mention out of these jobs only 2 of them have slashing capabilities. They already nerfed BPs and mewing into the ground so if they did nerf the BST TP denial strat then I don't know how people would actually get past Mboze outside of just absolutely perfect luck. Even now the TP denial strat is a bit questionable due to WS wall limiting how much damage the COR/BRD/BLU can contribute. Oh and Mboze has a native regen that heals past specific HP thresholds so GL trying to do multi-entry.
Edit for clarity: Mboze regen might not actually be moving his HP threshold up and might just be naturally healing back up as soon as you enter. Haven't tested it super seriously since V20s initially dropped either way it's not good for multi-entry. But I could also either be wrong or they could have changed it.
Lakshmi.Armaddon
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33
By Lakshmi.Armaddon 2022-12-16 10:07:11
Might be missing something/this might be repeat info now, but as far as HP regen between fights, our group observed in V20 that as long as you take the bosses down below any 5% threshold, that most recent threshold is where their HP will start on the next fight, even if they regen back up above that amount throughout the fight/after a wipe/etc. E.g.: Take boss to 64%, wipe, let it regen to 78% or w/e, re-enter and it'll be at 75%. We took advantage of this while double-shotting a couple fights to help make them a bit less stressful (Ongo, Mboze, Arebati). Our B team was actually able to take Mboze pretty far down on fight 1, even with the pet thwacking away.
If you take them below the 75% threshold and re-enter, they'll open immediately on pull with an SP, pet spawn, and aura. If you take the V25 bosses below 40%, they'll open with their first SP/pet/aura, then as soon as that first SP wears, they'll immediately follow up with the second SP/pet/aura re-roll. We also saw on Gagmagog that our BLU was unable to land Subduction on the boss or the first pet until after that first SP wore, which was fun... Might just be an anomaly, of course, but after the SP wore he had zero issues getting gravity on boss/pet/second pet when it spawned.
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Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 10:18:18
Two of them has a pet on a 20 min CD, another is limited to 2 JAs one on a 20 min one on a 5 Min CD.
You can sing songs in the lobby and entrust max duration Nitro Marcato songs to your DRG, and Empathy your wyvern. Include everything from Scherzo to Carols, Bar spells, Stoneskin, rolls etc. The buffs don't wear on entry if they are on the wyvern, so technically you can get every buff you can fit on your Wyvern and then have a COR random deal for your Call Wyvern back. With Spirit Link and the Empyrean head and a few other pieces, along with all these prebuffs you can keep your wyvern alive decently enough. Spirit Bond also allows you to use Restoring Breath to heal the wyvern also, and you can take some of your pet's damage if you need to keep it alive. DRG can also use Naegling for Slashing, and it's one of the strongest Savage Blade users in the game.
BST can use Bestial Loyalty in the lobby and reset it with RD. My Call Beast Timer is closer to 3:50 with merits and Acro gear, not 5 minutes, and im not even using a perfect set. Unleash also resets the timer on Call Beast to resummon infinite pets for the duration. BST also has Slashing options in Axe + Sword and can inflate it's damage (and the DRG's) a lot with Killer Instinct. Maybe Randy's damage is slashing? That aside, Reward basically can full heal most pets, or at least buy enough time until the next Call Beast is ready.
I don't know much about Summoner and their damage types. Are there any Slashing-damage pets they use?
I think the puppet has a slashing-damage frame that can be utilized as well, so there's at minimum 3 pet jobs that have slashing damage associated with it. Even still, that doesn't mean you can't include other non-pet slashing users in the setup. I was just saying that Mboze may have been designed specifically with extra bodies with pets in mind, whether they are disposable or not.
By SimonSes 2022-12-16 10:25:45
Even now the TP denial strat is a bit questionable due to WS wall limiting how much damage the COR/BRD/BLU can contribute.
This. I think TPing on add and only WSing Mboze is no longer possible, because you wont be able to outpace regen. Probably the only TP denial method will be killing both adds, but most likely we will end up killing first add, then ignoring second add and just zerging Mboze down with Rampart/Tusk/SoulEnslavement/KillerInstinct etc.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2521
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-12-16 10:26:03
SMN has slashing, blunt, and piercing options for their BP:R. Also: PUP pet may not die from Tiiiiimber, they have a ton of DT and a decent pool of HP. If they do die, however, they have Dues Ex Automata to bring it back with a 1 minute recast. There are some caveats here, but it's not impossible to think that many of these jobs can keep their pets alive. DRG also gets Steady Wing, which wasn't mentioned.
All that said, I'm still not SURE that it's possible, but I do think it's possible that some pet cheese is possible.
There might also be some strat involving a NIN with lots of subtle blow and Migawari?
Does Sacrosanctity block Tiiimber? Could do Rampart -> Sacro -> RD -> Rampart -> Sacro -> WC -> Rampart -> Sacro -> RD -> Rampart -> Sacro.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-16 10:32:37
I wasn't saying you could beat Mboze V25 with pet setups, I was merely talking about what devs may have been thinking with that fight.
I had stoneskin empathy on the brain, but Steady Wing is probably better, good call out.
Ninja for sure has a lot of play in Mboze. I used it in some V20 cheese strats with Trusts and one other buffer. Migawari allows you to walk through all of his threatening moves. Only problem with NIN is it is heavily attack starved. I haven't given much thought about how to include a NIN in an Mboze setup, but I think it would be a good option nonetheless.
Bahamut.Belkin
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Bahamut.Belkin 2022-12-16 10:37:52
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Does Sacrosanctity block Tiiimber?
The problem with Sacro is that it would wear off after Mboze auto attacks since they are magic damage. It only soaks the first magic damage hit, which could be any number of things. Stonega, auto attack, TP move other than Timber.
Hmmm...
Initial Speculations:
Looks like they took components of Walk of Echoes (setting), and Elemental Circles and brought it together.
They must of learned new ideas through the Lilith HTBF and how they can play with those elemental fetters to create unique battlefield environment and apply further stress with them..
Instead of Abyssea, this may be a Walk of Echoes 3.0? Anything iLvl 140+ .. We are ready!
Keep this thread clean, hoping to post critical details and discuss strategies.. Eventually I will create a Node on this with full details.. We can then update BG-Wiki with information that we gather..
Those of you who play on Nasomi.. Please don't post on here, you have a Fafnir to camp.. so get back to work.. This is isn't Bubbly Bernie version 3.0. He will be OG 1.0 forever on Nasomi.. ^_^
Sorry about the delay on updating this as I have been slammed with a lot of work since COVID-19 defense ramp up procedures at my hospital facility.
I have barely had time to update and barely any time to explore this content myself. I appreciate everyone's work so far. I will update this OP Thread with some resources and information that people have found across all servers including videos and screenshots..
Keeping this as a basic vital post highlight source so as new posts with vital information emerges I will just pin it here so it is all in one space and no need to jump around different pages..
To Begin.. The Basic Release Info from SE:
Some First Initial Basic Discoveries:
looks like you enter through Rabao
And you have 30 min to kill a bunch of trash mobs. Probably a boss at the end too.
More Initial Entry Discoveries Pinned:
About to enter Odyssey for the first time.
I'll report back. Setup is PUP, COR, BLU x2, SMN, RDM
Ok, it's looking like they made this content specifically to prevent BLUs from cleaving through this content.
Only main target took full damage. Surrounding targets took 90% reduced damage (main targeet 15k, all others 500 or less)
All mobs can be fully enfeebled (Sleep, Silence, Slow, Para) but standard rules apply for mob types (we saw Skeletons, couldn't Blind them)
I can very easily see a RUN or PLD tank running in and aggroing the group of mobs, with a BRD sleeping them all. 2 DDs kill one by one with proper support. SMN Bloodpacts were doing full damage on single mobs (same rules for BLU applied for SMN when we tried Thunderspark for lulz)
At the end, we found a group of mobs (bats) with a Fetter and a group of untargetable Yagudo. We cleared the bats, then killed the Fetter. Once the Fetter is killed, the Yagudo become targetable. For killing all of the Yagudo, you get 10 Izzat.
In total, we farmed 20 Izzat. We'll try using them tomorrow on boxes, maybe even spawn an NM. After we killed the fetter, a conflux spawned that gave us the opportunity to spawn a monster for 10 Izzat. We were low on time, so we just chose to exit.
Player with Trusts.. First Experience Testimonies:
Went in with trusts. Was able to 1 shot most things with leaden.
Yield: 31 scales and 3 scale boxes (from the chest).
Edit: Chests gave 11, 13 and 16.
More Vital Data Testimonies Discovered:
Random info:
-Killing trash gave izzat and lustreless scales
-Using 10 izzat to pop chest gave 2 scales and a box
-Killing fetter made untargetable yagudo killable, giving 10 izzat killing them all
-Popping NM with 10 izzat from ethereal junction spawned a red morbol that did blood weapon and dropped 2 boxes of scales
-Not sure what items you need to trade to junction to spawn monsters
-Was unable to use the thing at the start after killing fetter/yagudos/morbol, may have to kill all trash? I looked around and missed a pack, timed out before I could kill them all
-Moogle keeps track of trash killed, physis, and chests, and the power of your alter egos while in odyssey (Moogle Mastery)
More Testimonials and Discoveries..
Does anyone know what is needed to clear the RoE for Sheol A?
You need to run (can do on sneak/invi, only trasnparent mobs are true sight/sound) to last floor (A7) using confluxes. On last floor there is Otherworldly Vortex mentioned in RoE quest. You need to touch it (it lets you leave Odyssey too) to complete the quest. Credit for that info goes to Mischief from Bahamut. Here is a video of my first experience with Odyssey:
YouTube Video Placeholder Tried exploring, found more information
- I didn't realize there was a conflux on each floor to move up
- Each floor increases in mob level, capping at 131, and general nastiness of monster family (manticores, giants I remember on last floor)
- Translocators bring you down to previous levels, so the first floor one doesn't work until you find the higher level ones
- One character got stuck on a floor and couldn't move up, nor did they get the RoE objective upon someone else reaching the top
So for soloers, seems like it's best to stick to lower level floor to farm scales, more experienced parties can move up to desired difficulty for more scales. First time in would be best just getting the RoE objective and unlocking translocators.
Initial Video Detailing Climb to 7th floor for easy RoE Completion for Augment Unlock on Gear:
YouTube Video Placeholder
More Info about Moglophone KI's:
Anyways did a solo run this morning and got about 100 scales from just killing trash in first floor. Wondering what others are getting from parting up vs solo.
edit: Also can you hold one Moglophone KI on you, and then have the moogle hold one?
I was wondering this too. I picked up my KI last night and am holding it until later today and going to see if I can run two times in a row.
You can. I used my ki after few hours yesterday and when I checked moogle timer was at 15h, so it was going down while I had KI on me.
More Testimonial Higlights:
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Maybe Mischief will post about it, he figured it out on his mule. I'll try and post what i know, but it seems like we skip everything and just kill the fetters, mobs around the fetters, and sometimes the UNM near the fetters. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »and if u get to the final thing upstairs, personal chest for everyone. Not sure if someone said it already, but you CAN store a KI. So only need to farm every 2 days! I am confused on how people move up using sneak and invisible, in this run I explored everything, vortexes just said "you can't use this yet", or let me summon an NM but never move somewhere else, even after i killed the fetter, all the guards, the NM, opened one chest, and killed about 90% of all the mobs. If anybody can spot where in this video I should have been able to "move up" it would really help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9GhE5nO3I
thanks At the mandies in your run. Just hug left wall and you'll find it. It took me a while to find the first flux as well, but the rest were less "hidden". A video was posted a couple pages ago showing the route.
YouTube Video Placeholder Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »vortexes just said "you can't use this yet" Need to click Shimmering lights for access to some portals or not have aggro iirc. I may be wrong though Bahamut.Lexouritis said: » It rewarded me again with a box + 50k gil.
did u kill a fetter? Seems like 50k per Fetter and 1 box per fetter (per character). The big Box from RoE seems to be just 1 time thing. The smaller boxes seem to be fetter based?
Killing all 4 fetters netted us about ~70 scales per run per person after touching otherworldy vortex.
Edit: With RoE quest being completed in a run, was more like 110-130. So how many scales is it per upgrade? Didn’t see on Bg-wiki and don’t feel like shifting through posts on here. Should be just under 12 stacks to max. Based on scales only being worth 5rp instead of 10 :/ Clip to the top and nab the box, in and out, 5 minute adventure.
For realsies? SE let content like that out after the mass-ban clipping/duping-alex adventures get onto the live server? Thought they learned their lesson since the AMAN trove boxes can't be scouted via Hex IDs. The box he means is the one from completing the RoE once. You can walk to it in 6-7 mins without speed hacks anyway. The big deal about completing the RoE is you can start augmenting your gear at that point. Well if dude already finished a piece few days after update, there isnt much time gate here it seems.
Probably just the appetitizer was released (im on a work trip, cant "enjoy" the new content till weekend...)
He finished because he bought scales or have legion of mules. Regular player with 1 account will need realistically around 10-14 days for one piece farming daily. Traded 5 Emperor arthro shells to vortex (dunno how many it took from inventory, might have only taken 1 of the 5). Summoned Brachys, a crab that had a high ass counter rate and instantly killed me on my thf in one attack round. 500+ damage counters with no DT set. Likely not advisable to spawn mobs solo with trusts. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill featers and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 featers solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill fetters and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 fetters solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming.
I'm not sure if you need to just kill the fetters or the fetters + all the semi-invisible beastmen around the fetters.
It's possible to kill a fetter without aggro from the semi invisible beastmen that are sight aggro like Yagudo and Orcs. I'm assuming Quadav will sound aggro which makes them easier to gather in a group.
On the first day, when I duo'd with my cousin on RUN and me on COR with a THF4 set, we killed 1 fetter but stopped killing the semi-invisible beastmen because they were not dropping anything. Not all of the beastmen aggro'd. Only the Yagudo beastmen that were in sight of us or each other aggro'd us. Care needs to be taken by support in this case as support will get aggro'd if they rush in too early before the tank has claim on everything. These mobs hit very hard.
Definitely go in with at least th4 if solo farming just trash mobs.
Go in with a full, balanced party to maximize drops from fetters. The fetters are easy to kill. The beastmen hit hard and have a little more hp than common trash mobs. Helps to sleep them too as they can easily overwhelm even the toughest of tanks. Me and a group of peeps went in yesterday, to do some testing.
Killing a fetter + beastman group rewards 10 izzat, no special drops were seen, we did not have a thief, just a range using bounty shot.
Gonna test farm some nms tonight. i tried to spawn 1 today with my alt using unity items, turns out 1 is not enough. My second run of this is probably the best I can do.
Went in, killed all normal monsters, Feters and Beastmen, killed all of the Yaguado. I had 20 Izzat, spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob that died in a 4 step SC. This NM used Blood WEapon, the NM I tried yesterday used 100 fists and rek'd me.
I got 90 Izzat from Monsters and 22 from the 2 boxes that I got from NM and a chest I used them on. The only thing I didn't do on Floor 1 was spawn the Junction that said "Item can be used to pop something here" I had 3 Sarama Hides, 2 Thuban Things and neither worked, nor did a combination of them work.
All of my drops were done with TH2 from Gear. Few unanswered questions:
How is the augmentation to Trust power in Odyssey earned? I believe the requirement must be more than simply killing sets of trash mobs and making it to the otherworldly at the end.
Rewards upon reaching end were:
360k gil from a group that killed everything on first floor, 2 NM's popped.
100k gil for solo killing 2 groups (4 izzat) worth of scrubs and reaching end.
On another run I also got 100k gil for solo killing more scrubs (4 sets I think. Seems like the NMs from either spawn point will be one of the 119/122 unity NMs with similar mechanics, but not exactly the same as my morbol didn't go through 3 stages and only did blood weapon. May be a good ideal to either focus on repeatedly killing one to raise its kill count for the moogle or killing all of them at least once. Can't wait for Pandemonium Warden v3 in the future lol Yep. Surprised the hell out of us.
But as I said I was getting 100k for just clearing a couple of easy rooms and heading for the exit solo for the RoE.
Thinking about it, we did a bit more than the first floor full clear on that run, did a second fetter and agon mobs and popped another NM at least. spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob
What method did you use to spawn this nm?
So there seems to be 2 spawn methods, Unity Item (I think 5 minimum) or Izzat once you have killed a fetter.
In terms of the invisible mobs I don't know if its a coincidence or not but every time they have aggro'd they go after my GEO and no other character. Dunno if the bubble is causing something funky to happen.
It should be possible, to kill fetters on all floors + escape as low as 3 man, I cleared everything in my run and had about 3 minutes to spare but a lot of it was goofing about looking at chests etc. I'd say 4 man would be the most optimal though as you can't really AOE.
Only flaw would be is that the fetters on floors seem to be placed randomly so you could get screwed over on travel times but imagine if you wanted to eat some taco's and take that risk you could and do it no probs. My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.) Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »My findings thus far:
As stated multiples times already here, you can sneak/invisible to maneuver around the mobs here. However..
The invisible mobs appear true sight and/or sound, so you have to be cautious of them.
Appears that killing fetters gives personal loot. We all got a box.
You can solo for the RoE if you want following the guidlines above.
Competing RoE gives you 1 large box.
Clear is NOT party wide and each person must touch it individually for credit. (Also recieved 60k gil, we cleared 1 fetter/quadavs, and the mob family near it)
Didn't notice until after fetter and invisible mobs were dead, but one or the other gave 10 izzat.
Have tried a few different unity mats for unm 119/122 and traded 5 to pop a NM. NM that spawned was of the same mob family as items traded. Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull and kill regular mobs, until you see opportunity where nothing is close to fetter (there is always a moment when there is max 1 mob close to it at some point). Kill fetter fast (It's easy to kill. One good 2 step SC will kill it), then kill remaining mobs. I wouldn't try to aggro more than few mobs in general when solo or duoboxing, especially if you dont have Malignance set on COR. Something of note to add was that our rng and cor were doing 0 dmg to the fetter from distance and had to move much closer to do any damage. This may relate to how aoe does much reduced damage. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III.
Do you need to touch the flux on the top floor to get the gil? Or when does the gil actually get distributed to you? Yes, you have to leave personally to get it, and as always if other party members are fighting its locked out. My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.)
Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull/kill regular mobs with ranged attack. Run in to fetter with max 1 or 2 shadows aggro. Kill fetter > kill the rest. Just look out what you aggro. Aggroing BLM mob that stand close to middle will probably result in mass link eventually. Regular mobs dont link at all, but transparent mobs (before and after killing fetter) do. Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Not sure if it was mentioned, but looks like you can't pop the same NM twice from UNM mats in the same run. Popped once on first floor, and later on the 4th floor it gave a message saying we couldn't pop the same NM again. Sharing Shamgi's notes posted in the BST forum for relevant details:
Ok, just went into an Odyssey and discovered some things:
1. You can charm things in there. Things seemed to be fairly simple to charm, and Charm+ gear meant that my dhalmel stayed charmed 15+ minutes.
2.Charmed pets seem to be quite strong. Beyond the normal HP, they seemed to have fairly high damage, hitting other mobs in their own pack for 4-600 a swing, with crits as high as 900. My Dhalmel once used Berserk and those numbers got pretty big, same with their Sound Wave move. My record was a crit for 1500 or so. This is with NQ food and no other pet related buffs. I had one crawler end up at 74% when it killed another crawler in the pack, likely benefiting from all the DA and Haste.
3. Pets seem quite effective at killing the Halos. They hit hard already, but notably, they aggro nothing, not even the Beastmen around the Halos when doing so. The Halo produces a damaging AOE every couple of seconds that was hitting for 200 or so, but the pet, with it's 40k+ HP, doesn't care at all. Indeed, I left the pet to it's own devices and killed other packs with trusts while it worked the halo down itself, which actually seemed quite nice. When it died, the Orcs around it didn't aggro, so it was easy to pull them one by one, as they don't link either.
4. Mob spawns are random, which can hurt this strat, but from two runs a majority of the packs seem charmable, and many of them are often pretty powerful. Given the strat above, I feel like a monk style pet would be best here.
Overall, I'm super interested in trying this with a full group where you can use the pet to deal with adds while you work on a pack yourself and to safely kill Halos while you clear other things.
One issue was Sic, the recast was way worse than I remembered, and my lua isn't set up at all to deal with it. My best guess is to just set up my gearswap to always produce a physical damage set for Sic and then just use pets who focus physical damage with their TP moves. If it's a buff move, then no big deal, if it's physical then it's the right set. They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far). Do not link with the Fetter though, found this out by trying to range attack the fetter down, only to realize the fetter is immune to auto-range attacks. They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far).
Well its kinda expected. Orc, Yagudo and Goblins are all sight aggro/link. Quadavs are sound aggro/link and it's how they are in Odyssey too. They arent immune to ranged attacks you just need to be stood in the fetter to do damage.
So not immune to ranged attacks, but immune to any attacks from a range. XD As with all farming things it's more efficient to solo, if the kill speed is high, like 119 content. 6 solos have 6x more chances for boxes.
Luck's definitely a factor; and yeah I think solo probably is best.
I think a lot of it has to do with people finding each other, people needing to sneak/invis themselves, and having to stagger the flux (so it doesn't glitch out). Was a lot of wasted time there.
Was just curious if other groups were experiencing it as well. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. As group you are suppose to kill Fetter at floor 1,3,5 and 7 and run to otherworldy vortex at the end. You should get 4 PERSONAL box from otherworldy that way and I think one more personal box from killing beastman kings at floor 7 (they are around Fetter there).
So thats 5 personal chests
At least 40 Izzat to open chests
Probably at least 40 single scales from killing trash around fetters if you take at least TH4 with you.
Small boxes are on avg around 13 scales?
So probably around 70-80 scales at least per person, maybe more if you have time to farm more.
Very good geared solo player on specific job like COR, can get more with luck, but it might be other bonuses from killing fetters and NMs that we might dont know about. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them.
No, you need to kill Fetter AND beastman mobs around it to get credit for personal box at the end and 10 Izzat. I assume you killed only Fetters. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »THF can pick the locks/chests in odyssey, in case no one mentioned, or knows about it yet. However some times mimic will pop out. Unsure how hard they are, as it opens with deathtrap, and his mule has sparks gear (and it got one shot). Credit goes to mischief
"Either gave a 'however it has no effect' message and consumed the tool, opened the chest, or a mimic popped out" I made a quick map of Odyssey to make ease to hit the fluxes.
Etheral Junctions, Fetters and camps change apparently random.
EDIT: all maps have North heading the upper border.
Aegypius NM:
Bird
Popped using 5 Abyssdiver feathers
Uses Broadside Barrage and Damnation Dive
Uses Perfect Dodge at low HP and gains an Encumbrance aura that stays for the rest of the fight Carbuncle.Papesse said: »Beware of the Treant NM Ptelea and its dangerous Leafstorm AoE. Leafstorm is hybrid wind based. It can crit, miss, be absorbed by shadows and Elemental Sforzo. One For All, Gelus Valiance and Baraero substantially reduce damage. As far as getting these telepoints, mentioned on BGwiki's Odyssey page that you're supposed to be able to travel between to get to further levels of Odyssey, does anyone have any info on the requirements to gain access to these? Do you have to kill all of the fetters to go up a floor? Also, has anyone tried going in with a group of six and then disbanding and everyone using their own trusts to expediate the process of both killing enemies on every floor, taking care of all the fetters on a floor and then popping the nm's so that you might progress to these tele-points if those happened to be the requirements? I know some players might have found that they can farm higher amounts of the Lustreless Scales solo rather than teaming up but if you go in with 6 and then make you're own parties with trusts.. and there are multiple telepoints with up to say 15 sets of mobs and fetters then the possibility of having a high return still might be worth it. Another thing i noticed maybe means nothing but i saw some pixels floating out of nowhere that seemed like a mobs name. Maybe a glitch? Or the others maps? Or a random mob?
 I'm sure people regularly killing fluxes/beastmen already knew this, but AoEs that would have hit the untargettable/invisible beastmen will still generate enmity on them, so people should watch for that if they're sleepgaing or horde lullabying fodder. We spawned an NM in today's run.
Brachys: Crab NM (PLD/MNK)
Had a pretty decent (25-30%) Counter rate. Bubble Curtain's Shell effect reduced enspell (RDM with Crocea Mors) dmg to 0 unless it was dispelled. Used Invincible at 25%. Easily landed enfeebles (Slow, Para, Blind, Frazzle, Distract) Pretty easy fight overall.
It was spawned using 10 Izzat after we killed Fetter + Beastmen mobs surrounding it. Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »I have Moogle Mastery III, not sure what's doing it. Status report has:
Nostos killed: 306
Damysus: 2
Salmandra: 2
Cynara: 1
Chests: 3
Seems I ranked up when I killed an Agon Bruiser. The augment system is “tiered”. I’m working on my alts Emeici +1.
Ranks 1-5 give +2 damage. Ranks 6-10 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc. I assume ranks 11-15 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc, +2 crit rate.
That’s a neat way to do it, it incentivizes the more expensive ranks. Just had a bad solo experience... turns our not all popped NM's are soloable. Do not recommend popping the nm's for 10 izzat.
Got a cactus who would constantly triple attack and did 600 normal / 1200 crit per attack round. August got insta-KO then healer then myself within 7 seconds. YouTube Video Placeholder
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