Why Does Zenith Hate Us?

Yeah I was talking about AF pants >.> SCH gets boosted to 271, 5 skill less than A+, though RDM can still get more gear.

Edit: Enhancing skill is pretty worthless for Stoneskin.

Well yeah but I think rdm pants get that much skill anyways lol and relic hands get anotehr 15... or vice versa idk I rarely use it. And yeah about the only thing good about enhancing skill for stoneskin is it means you need less +mnd... but really mind has a bigger effect anyways and its rediculously easy for a rdm to cap it anyways

wow that didn't take long ...

Phalanx (II) and Bar-spells are the only genuine use of enhancing skill.

Which is a same, as yes RDM sit around with all this skill and nothing to use it on.

RDM can reach a higher skill (if you have all the relevant gear) but I can't see why a RDM would bother. Phalanx II is more driven by the number of merits than the amount of skill, and being a single target makes its use pretty limited.

A good SCH is a powerful force, and if they have the right gear (and the intelligence to use it) then they can get close to/match a BLM in nuking situations and get close to/match a WHM in healing situations.

But I do get annoyed with a lot of SCH that have crappy gear sets and no idea how to macro gear that then come along and say they are a better nuker than my BLM or a better support/enfeebler than my RDM just because they are a SCH and according to a few blogs 'SCH is the top mage'.

SCH takes more work than any of the mages to make it 'work' and gear to support each function. If you have the gear/skill/knowledge then you will be good (possibly better than my traditional jobs), but no you not better just because you are a SCH.

(General purpose rant, not directed at any one here, but I have had to many SCH say they are amazing, just because SCH is amazing and have turned out to be fail at their job... New term: Bandwagon SCH?)

P.S I think the Morrigans BLM had earth weather (or earthday) proc against his nuke, which would have put him back up to about 1600.

Edit: that should fan the flames (although that wasn't my intention)

Lol I think it started roughly 2 minutes after you mentioned it.

You started it!

I understand your point and yes, SCH is a job that's very hard to play WELL.

That being said, if you know what you're doing, it's a force to be reckoned with even without good gear, because you get the base 50% or so increase in nuke damage without having to buy/get anything at all, other than the spell.

And yeah, I had said on a previous page that it was earthday and he most likely got a negative proc for his Thunder :P But EVEN SO, I'm a SCH and if a SCH with average gear gets even CLOSE to a BLM with almost perfect gear, then you can't write it off as a worthless job right off the bat, let alone if the SCH surpasses the BLM.

I agree with Argettio, the job of sch depends entirely on the person behind it as do other jobs. It takes alot more for sch than other jobs to be at the same level because they are trying to be at the same level as so many jobs at the same time. I know this cause I am a sch/rdm/blm. Though I can't say anything about whm since I don't have it leveled and SE has made attempts to make whm even better.

Also about the remake about our Enhancing being a D ranking I'm not certain but I think that is without any Arts on and sch isn't ment to go without any Arts on....

Sch has the ability to get close to if not match a blm on tier IV but blms can always come back with AMII. Sch has the ability to keep up with most whms when healing but whms have Cure V, Protect V and Shell V not to mention the new spells Esuna(but that is limited in usefulness). Also Sch can AoE Gravity, Bind, and Dispel which no blm or rdm can do and AoE -na and Cure any group while whm is limited for the most party to only doing that to its own party.

Now for schs weakness... amoung many is the limitations of strats.. I've always thought the merit should have been -2 secs on strat recharge instead of Dark/Light Arts... or the mythic have some -time on strat recharge which is the main part that effects how useful a sch is..

And the question of gear is not that we should get everything we want but that SE has in the past added jobs to equipment and as of right now Sch has no reason to do Sky, Salvage or even most ZNMs... I even stopped trying for Morrigans robe partly because I rarely exp or do events on anything but sch(because I love the job) so I have no reason for them. Also if your all right that sch is just a 2nd rate job because it can't "match" blm/whm/rdm than what is the harm of giving us some more options?

Also it isn't just Sch its the other recently added jobs... sch may have one of the most useful relics but we don't get lvl 70 JSE or the lvl 50 JSE ring and Earring... they don't have to be ground breaking or anything SE could make them very situational for all I care but still would be nice to atleast get some of what everyone else was given... should short change us just cause we were added last...

As someone said, Sch is the 2nd in everything.
Really dont understand how ppl still can say is the best healer, best buffer and best nuker >.<
Cure V, curaga IV, enhanced Barspells, Pro/shell5, R3, Haste, Refresh, Devotion, Esuna. Where have sch all that?
Whm is best healer and bufer, rdm is best bufer and debuffer, blm is the best nuking and they have stun, thing that schs is missing also.
A whm heals by far better than a sch, and you cant say that sch is better buffing than any job when is missing the 2 more important buffs, refresh and haste.
Also as said, think in stun, the importance of stun , thing that the blms usually do besides of nuking harder than schs in endgame.
everyone shows pics of dmg in pudings, even my rdm does dmg unresisted in pudings >< try in something where you have to sacrifice potency to get the skill that blms get easily. There is where blm will win, besides of having stun.

So as someone said already,
If you want a healer get a whm
If you want a buffer get a whm or a rdm
If you want a debuffer get a rdm
if you want a nuker get a blm

Sch can do all, but never will be better.

Right ...

Who posted this flame bait within the second post?

Judging from this forum's history where did you think the conversation was gonna go from there?

The thing that annoys the ***out of me about this right here... is what if it's a 6 man event or something like salvage where you want to low man it.

Yep i want a healer/buffer... so i invited a whitemage... lets see refresh and enfeebling would be nice... invited a red mage... i really want some BLM damage in there as well... i invited a black mage.

Lets see i have Whitemage Redmage Blackmage... this leaves me room for only 3 more people.

If you have a well geared SCH and someone who knows what they are doing, a SCH and BRD-or-COR will be far superior in setup choice depending on the situation.

In short Nobody cares who has the better job. If you want to go 2004 and argue what job would win in a brawl just got back to the whole RDM/NIN is the best job in the game argument.

It's about being efficient and allowing a more universal approach using a single job in varying situations. It's not about being the "better" job.

I love you guys keep repeating that if you want this crap what if you don't want to burn 2 spots in a party to have both whm and rdm in a party did you every think of that... whm will always be best at healing yes that cause its its only job but it can't refresh itself so to keep one going with refresh you need to either rotate or burn a spot on rdm or brd. While a Sch can go alone and can keep a full party of melee alive while against Odin/Einherjar without burning through the mp whms do cause of thinks like AoE SS and Phalanx

and as for the damage part I'm sorry I'm just gonna state it since I didn't screen shot it cause never thougth the instance would come up where I would have to prove myself but I have on numerous occasions match my LS blms while on Sch against Tier 3 ZNMs... Yes I say match them but I also came out with less resists then they did and most of them have ok to good equipment

I stopped reading at WHM and RDM in the same party.

A bard or Corsair, makes your PT way better/more efficient.

Cool story though. Any good WHM these days should sub /SCH for MP efficiency and a RDM can't use refresh during sublimination. If anything RDM+Bard.

My point still stands if you are doing low man or 6 person parties a SCH and BRDorCOR is so extreme from what i have personally experienced this far in. I have both WHM and BLM 75 and use both more than i care to, and i already know that once SCH hits 75 i'm going to easily replace them in 1 shot.

Also gotta love how this started about how sch and maybe a few other jobs would like gear like Zenith nothing about sch vs others or who is best at what but it was other mage that jumped in and spread the ever ending grudge to this topic

Well it's only natural since if SCH could use zenith or morrgian it would be completely overpowered as they are already amazing, and then everyone had to chime in and say in a nutshell "SCH aren't that great" or "can't compare".

I just hit 65 SCH yesterday and i'm already feeling like i want to sell off my nobles/blessed and redo all the ACP/MTK gear towards it. I probably won't but the point still stands that i feel like i'm combining my BLM and WHM in 1 fell shot. While true SCH can't Raise III or AM like WHM/BLM but in terms of sheer MP efficiency and the ability to switch on a whim, i think i'm pretty sold.

Well if your target at the end is puddings then maybe SCH out do BLMs, but for hnm SCHs don't have access to blm's Elemental skills or whm's Enmity - gear. Hence why i'll always have a member come whm or blm if we don't have one, and SCHs if we have anough of both.

When in the corner i guess throwing the "you do great WS on colibri but suck at hnm" argument is always an ace in the sleeve.

You are 100% right. I'm throwing the skill arguement coz it's a fact, and repeating what i said with another example is another an ace in the sleeve.

I didn't say "SCH isn't that great".

I said that some SCH's have an over inflated self worth based on the 'job being awesome, and so they must be awesome players, because they are on an awesome job'

I have been in mana burn merits partys @ puddings with SCHs and 1-2 of them were really good, I struggled to keep up with their damage and they could always go for 1 more mob than me before resting. This guys was firing out 1600 nukes regularly and keeping weather on the party, and made 1-2 of the BLM in the party look really bad. But this guy cared about the job, thought about how he would use his stragiums and had some pretty good gear (within the limited choices SCH has).

But I have also had SCH turn up in full AF (for nuking) and honestly believed that they were out doing the BLM (despite the log showing they barely broke 1k) because "SCH is the best mage according to X blog and Y person posting on Z forum".

That's not a problem with the job, that's a problem with the some of the players that play the job. Same as Full Hachiman SAMs honestly thinking they are ***hot just because they are a SAM and therefore instantly the best DD in the game.

It has been proven that currently SCH gear is limited, and that limit is the only thing stopping them full steam rolling BLM out of nuking partys. And that gear is coming (slowly), I am not sure why a SCH would want zenith gear though.

* Head is a crappy nuke piece, only really use is MP (and sorc ring activation)
* Body is only good for refresh (SCH should be using Relic for sublimation)
* Hands are good but matched by Vicious
* Leg are lol
* Feet are lol

If I was a SCH I would be looking to get my hands on Nashira, Shadow, Morrigans or even Marduk.

(or get your own EG gear from whatever EG event WotG gives us)

Ok say everything you guys love to say about us is right then tell me what is wrong with us trying to better the job that we all enjoy playing and get more equipment options for that job?

(Which is why I play it I love playing sch I don't get bored playing it like I do on rdm or blm and in this case its better to have some play the job they enjoy playing than forcing someone to play a job they hate... When I'm scholar at events and something changes like "Oo ***whm went down need more healing power" well there I'm pop light arts and I'm there and then whm is back up then I can hit Dark Arts and I'm back to nuking... And it can go the other way I'm healing and we need more damage I can hit Dark arts.. and I can do that all with out have to go switch jobs...)

Or our you all threatened by what may happened if we were given said opportunities?

But we forget that HNM is but a small fraction of the game and that not everyone cares either. Nor does that make anyone a noob, moron, less experienced, bad at their job, or whatever you choose to tag in front of it.

And as i mentioned before i was talking about low man events not full blown 18+ HNM events where it's more than obvious you'd want RDM BLM WHM respectively. I want to assume you skipped over the entire thread and just replied to the last few things.

I find no joy in waiting on HNM's to pop for hours or being on call to any linkshell to be their *** so that their leaders and friends of leaders can line their pockets and come across with such an attitude of superiority.

I find no skill or huge achievement in throwing 30+ people at big things and consider yourselves superior to anything anyone else does.

Case in point: HNM is a very small percent.

Coz SE is trying to make it a balanced game as much as they can, and giving armor access to all jobs will ruin that, and become like lolWoW.

for example WAR or SAM being able to equip Homam.

What the ***? lol. Your post doesn't indicate any type of sarcasm or hidden whoosh so i want to assume that you know SCH cant equip any of that right?

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=107167

That's as good as nuking gear can get (Credit to Eternitus)

EDIT: also the head has INT+4 i'm unsure why you say its a horrible nuking piece.

Simple fact, as soon as SCH gets a relatively easy to assemble HNM/God set then BLM is out of a job. It has been shown the SCH can nuke on HNMs already, give a few more pieces of gear and they will fully over run BLM.

If you only used SCH as nukers you remove the need for a BRD or COR refreshing them (although it would help, its not as essential as for BLM party), which would allow you to bring another SCH (in place of the support) and increase you magic DD by 20%.

IMO that is wrong, but there is nothing I can do about it. Except level SCH.

I think SE planned to make SCH into a job that could enhance a BLM party (with weather) and support in the nuking while providing the support. But they didn't quite get the balance right.

Idiot

I was talking about the gear sets that SCH can't wear but would be an advantage to be able to wear

The OP was talking about 'I want to be able to wear Zenith on my SCH' I am saying *** Zenith, if you want to ask for gear ask for something useful (see my list above).

edit: sry for double post, but some things need relying to.

edit2: zenith head has 3 INT on it (NQ) which is less that your lvl 60 AF hat, that enhances sublimation!

Fixed to End game*

That's right. If I have to choose between 5 BLMs/BRD , or 3 BLMs 2 SCHs and BRD, I would go def. for the second option.

HNM does not =/= The definition of endgame. It's ONE of the endgame activities. People do still actually do Dynamis Limbus Salvage Einherjar ZNM and Sky Gods.



You didn't clarify that at all. You simply said "I want to level SCH, BLM is out of a job, if i level SCH i want to get my hands on xyz". Which is why i put I want to assume you know in front of my statement.

With Eternitus's gear set it pretty much gives INT+38 as much MAB as possible. It's equally important to know the inside workings of a 75 WHM and 75 BLM and understand full differences and know how to adapt gear sets. SCH will never have access to anything you listed for obvious reasons. (Idiot)

Personally my ideal Nuke party is 4 BLM, 1 SCH, 1 COR.

BLM need obis to make it truly worth while for the SCH to use strats on giving weather.

COR can then roll evokers + wizards or warlock (situational).

Sound about right.

I know full well SCH will never get added to any of those sets... I was simply can't understand why people who are SCHs (or SCHs in the making) want a gear set that has limited/zero use for their job.

Every part of that set is beaten/matched by other gear that is pretty easy to get.

And it worries me a lot that you:
A) are talking about gear you evidently don't know the stats of
B) don't know that you AF hat (that you get 15 lvls earlier) the gear in question.