Random Politics & Religion #33: Donald John Trump Is The 45th And Current President Of The United States. All Of Your Viewpoints Are Invalid.

Throughout central and south America, Korea, Tiwan, Veit-Nam. We have overthrown democracies and installed brutal and murderous dictators.

Two word example: Augusto Pinochet.

I have not only lived through this sad history, I am educated in history.

I won't be happy till we make NK look like America. That is the ultimate goal. Turn every country into America.

That's our Foney....

All that is missing is Miss Dictator sash.

It's a door use it !

And yet here you are, posting nonsense and trying to get attention. At least Fonewear is amusing on purpose.

Look up the definition of "possibly". You can find a million theories of what could have happened. I'm not more likely to believe your scenario any more than the many others I've read from actual historians.

https://www.google.com/search?q=governments+the+us+has+overthrown&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Still can't even come close to competing to what China did on it's own

I'd rather we make it look like SK. Or at least make them all look like kpop stars.

Huh... we haven't overthrown anyone in Korea... much less a Democracy.

Korea's, or historically Corea's recentish history goes something like this.

There was a Corean Monarchy, Imperial Japan arrived and overthrew that Monarchy while installing their own Imperial governor and turning Corea into a Japanese colony with very brutal rules. Korean's are still very very VERY pissed at this. Later WWII happened, Japan used unarmed Koreans as foot soldiers, they had fake guns and would be forced towards the US soldiers during the various land actions against the Japanese in the Pacific theater. After WWII we forced Imperial Japan to give up all it's Imperial territories and those former colonies would be free Democracies.

Now we get into the semi-recent history. During WWII Russia placed one of their officers, responsible for leading the anti-Japanese forces, in charge of the Korean theater for the planned invasion of Japan. His name was Major Kim, Il Sung. Now the Allies, mostly the US, also staged troops in Korea for the same planned invasion. To define the Areas of Operations for each military force they drew a line on the map approximately around the 38th parallel, everything north would be under the command of the Russians under MAJ Kim, everything south would be under the command of the United States.

Now fast forward to the end of the war, the planned invasion of Japan never happened and those forces under MAJ Kim are still north of the DMZ. The agreement stipulating that former German and Japanese Imperial territories should become free democracies gets executed and runs into a really big snag. The Soviet Union has no inclination to allow free democracies into it's newly acquired territories, including the piece of land that is being held by MAJ Kim. MAJ Kim thinks that the previously occupied land of Korea should be a communist country similiar to those of the Soviet Union and China, under his leadership of course. Those not directly under MAJ Kim's control have no desire to go back under another tyrannical leadership and decline. Korea was now split into two governments both claiming to be the legitimate government of the whole. MAJ Kim is pissed but he's now called President Kim and Our Great Leader.

Several years go by and President Kim Il Sung convinces China that the Soviets are ~OK~ with him unifying the peninsula into a single country by swiftly beating the weak southerners and their capitalist allies, they weren't and he couldn't. The Korean War happened with the result being two countries separated by a DMZ. As there is no formal peace treaty North Korea, now under the rule of President Kim Jung Un, still technically claims to be the only legitimate government.

At no point in time did the US overthrow anyone, much less a democratically elected government. The most you can say is that they didn't allow a communist dictator to take over the entire country. The history is very funny here cause Stalin and Mao were very adamant that Kim Il Sung not risk provoking the Americans, they didn't want a war with the allies. Kim Il Sung asked many times if they would support him and finally only got permission from Mao by lying and saying that Stalin personally approved of his great plan. By the time Mao got around to verifying, Kim Il Sung had already started his invasion and it didn't matter anymore. Mao was pissed but had to support Kim Il Sung because there was no way he was going to allow an American friendly country on his border. The entire second half of the Korean War was US soldiers fighting Chinese soldiers until they both agreed to stop and let ***go back to the way it was before Kim stirred it up.

And vacuums suck.

As for those South American countries, these weren't democracies they were colonies of the Spanish empire. The link you provided supports this as while the US supported entities that would in turn support the US, there was no invasion from the USA. We can go all day long about attempting to apply morale's to non-moral entities like nations but it's pretty much wasting your time cause nations are going to do whats in their best interests.

Europe and Canada universally loathed Donald Trump, didn't stop him from getting elected or having a successful Presidency (so far).

No, we established a US military government and when we bacame unpopular we installed Syngman Rhee.

Not all of the governments we have installed have been murderous dictatorships, not all of the governments we have overthrown have been democracies, and sometimes, as in S Korea, we install into a vacuum.

Huh...

You have a very distorted understanding of Korean history, cartoonishly bad.

Prior to WWII the leaders of the Japanese colony of Korea where those Korean's who worked with the Japanese. Thus while the Governors were typically Japanese, many of their appointee's were from prominent Korean families. Those families still exist and collectively control most Korean's economy. Those families also produced almost all the government representatives.

Now for the fun part, Kim Il Sung, being the communist revolutionary, did the same thing all the other communist revolutionaries did, brutally murdered those working with the Japanese government along with their families. Anyone found supporting or working with the Imperial Japanese government found themselves dead after Kim Il Sung and his people got a hold of them.

So it should extremely obvious, even to a blind fool, why those Korean families occupying positions of power in the South would absolutely not want to have anything to do with someone who wanted to murder them. Those same Korean families are the ones who ran the Provisional Government, who later got elected to various positions of power, and who made friends with the military super power who didn't like Kim Il Sung.

The only time the US ever had anything to do government wise in South Korea was the handful of years while they formed their first government. Again you failed to read the link you posted, it kinda provides the time table.

And if your going to mark individuals that US supported, you would be vastly better off discussing President Park. The dude who's both a villain and a national hero depending on who you ask. They liked him so much that his daughter was able to use that to get elected President. Of course he also became a dictator while the USA just kinda watched and did nothing. There's actually a whole discussion, that kinda shows how national leaders don't have the luxury of morale's.

/headdesk

1954: Guatemala
In a CIA operation code named Operation PBSUCCESS, the U.S. government executed a coup that was successful in overthrowing the democratically-elected government of President Jacobo Árbenz and installed the first of a line of brutal right-wing dictators in its place.

1961–1964: Brazil
When the president of Brazil resigned in August 1961, he was lawfully succeeded by João Belchior Marques Goulart, the democratically elected vice president of the country.[88] João Goulart was a proponent of democratic rights, the legalization of the Communist Party, and economic and land reforms, but the US government insisted that he impose a program of economic austerity. The United States government implemented a plan with the code name Operation Brother Sam for the destabilization of Brazil, by cutting off aid to the Brazilian government, providing aid to state governors of Brazil who opposed the new president, and encouraging senior Brazilian military officers to seize power and to back army chief of staff General Humberto de Alencar Castelo Branco as coup leader.[89][90] General Branco led the April 1964 overthrow of the constitutional government of President João Goulart and was installed as first president of the military regime, immediately declaring a state of siege and arresting more than 50,000 political opponents within the first month of seizing power, while the US government expressed approval and re-instituted aid and investment in the country.[91]

1971: Bolivia
The US government supported the 1971 coup led by General Hugo Banzer that toppled President Juan José Torres of Bolivia.[117][118] Torres had displeased Washington by convening an "Asamblea del Pueblo" (People's Assembly or Popular Assembly), in which representatives of specific proletarian sectors of society were represented (miners, unionized teachers, students, peasants), and more generally by leading the country in what was perceived as a left wing direction. Banzer hatched a bloody military uprising starting on August 18, 1971 that succeeded in taking the reigns of power by August 22, 1971. After Banzer took power, the US provided extensive military and other aid to the Banzer dictatorship as Banzer cracked down on freedom of speech and dissent, tortured thousands, "disappeared" and murdered hundreds, and closed labor unions and the universities.

1973: Chile
The democratically elected President Salvador Allende was overthrown by the Chilean armed forces and national police. This followed an extended period of social and political unrest between the right dominated Congress of Chile and Allende, as well as economic warfare waged by the US government.[128] As a prelude to the coup, the chief of staff of the Chilean army, René Schneider, a general dedicated to preserving the constitutional order, was assassinated in 1970. The regime of Augusto Pinochet that came to power with the coup is notable for having, by conservative estimates, disappeared some 3200 political dissidents, imprisoned 30,000 (many of whom were tortured), and forced some 200,000 Chileans into exile.

1991: Haiti
Eight months after what was widely considered the first honest election held in Haiti,[citation needed] the newly elected President Jean-Bertrand Aristide was deposed by the Haitian army. It is alleged by some that the CIA "paid key members of the coup regime forces, identified as drug traffickers, for information from the mid-1980s at least until the coup."[188] Coup leaders Cédras and François had received military training in the United States.

https://www.google.com/search?q=governments+the+us+has+overthrown&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

1945–1950: South Korea
As the Empire of Japan surrendered in August 1945, under the leadership of Lyuh Woon-Hyung committees throughout Korea formed to coordinate transition to Korean independence. On August 28, 1945 these committees formed the temporary national government of Korea, naming it the People's Republic of Korea (PRK) a couple of weeks later.[24][25] On September 8, 1945, the United States government landed forces in Korea and thereafter established the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGK) to govern Korea south of the 38th parallel north. The USAMGK staffed the governing administration with Japanese governors and many other Japanese officials who had been part of the brutal Japanese imperial colonial government and with Koreans who had collaborated with it, which made the government unpopular and engendered popular resistance.[26] USAMGK refused to recognize the PRK government, which had been formed to self-govern the country, and the Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea, which had been based in China during WWII and had fought against the Japanese, and then the USAMGK by military decree outlawed the PRK government.[27][28] In October 1948, USAMGK sent units to attack Koreans who were seeking Korean independence, and carried out several mass atrocities, including the killing hundreds of Korean civilians on Jeju Island who were suspected of supporting those in favor of independence.

Same source

Then read the Syngman Rhee link.

Those are all conspiracy level ***, outside of Guatemala which I agree was some dumb level stuff. The reset were about as "democratic" as Venezuela or Cuba and overthrown by their own Armies.

Did you even bother looking at time lines and who was actually running those governments?

That's like your fake Korean history knowledge, superficial only from a handful of sites that probably praise Che Guevara as a representative of freedom and democracy.

You do know who your talking about right ...

That's North Korea, and your now quoting from multiple unverified sources.

Literally, that "Based out of China" was *** Kim Il Sung's government. How exactly did you think he was going to take control over an area where he didn't have soldiers stationed? There was no elections held, it was a bunch of Kim's revolutionaries looking at each other and agreeing that they should form the new government.

Here I'll say it again


The actual "Japanese" had long since evacuated to Japan proper, those left were their appointed Korean leaders, who just happened to also have Japanese names and spoke Japanese cause that's what happens when a big Imperial power colonizes smaller powers. These are Koreans in Korea who only speak Japanese or Chinese, they are very old. Have you met them cause I have.

To think, a Democrat would support North Korea.

Now quick, google your way into a deeper hole to dig out of. Not like your attempting to argue with someone who has actual hands on experience with the subject matter, knows the culture and has had this conversation with actual Korean historians.

By Chanti's logic, North Korea is a "democracy" because some people "voted" on something. Hell Iran's a "democracy" too.

Have we ever needed a topic change more than we do now?

This is fascinating please go into more detail I"m ready to learn professor.

When you are done with South Korea tell me everything you know about NK China Japan India Cambodia Vietnam Philippines and fried rice.

Here's something, in South Korea the People's Republic of Korea is still outlawed as a communist organization with North Korean and Chinese ties.

People's Republic of Korea = North Korea
Democratic People's Republic of Korea = Also North Korea

When the PRK had a dispute with Kim he formed the DPRK, got "elected" and removed the remaining RPK leadership.

The PRK was nothing but the local resistance cells, mostly lead by Kim and all trained by China, voting themselves into power. It was not a national movement, not a national vote, and an attempt by the Chinese to preempt any capitalist country forming on it's southern border. The country was far too disconnected and poor after the Japanese occupation to have any sort of actual vote. That's what the whole provisional government idea was about which was the exact same Japanese appointed Koreans doing what they were doing prior to the Japanese surrendering.

She's mostly wiking stuff and taking what is the cliffs notes version without the deeper info. The argument was lost the moment she argued the PRK as a legitimate democratic government. That's like calling the DPRK such since the Workers Party does hold elections, and of course a Kim always gets elected.