Dev Tracker - Discussion

Seems like bad bait. I'm on a small server and have a group that's going through the Odyssey clears now. It started as our group RPing together to get better at Sortie, to doing specific clears to improve max augment rank, to now getting v25 clears for everyone so we can RP pieces on our own if we want.

As Thorny said, its actually giving us incentive to gear and play new jobs (out of necessity) than our Sortie jobs, which is fun (minus the inventory woes).

As im sure most people have figured out, "if you build it, they will come". If someone wanted to start a group in their Linkshell to do v25 climbs, I'm sure thered be enough bites to do some clears.

People who don't do it keep calling them V25 clears. Which V25 clears? T1 and T2 are a joke, so can't be those. You can't get 6 people to drop a Xevioso or Kalunga in 2026 with Hoxne Ampulla available? Ngai doesn't even need a PUP any more. Mboze was always a damage check and ampulla blew it out of the water.

You can take a bog-standard Sortie group, add 1-2 jobs with overlap gear per person, and clear at least 14/17 of the NMs. Does your Sortie group not do new jobs? Do they just burst into flames if they step into Odyssey? Or, more likely, is it all multiboxers and you can't play your mules well enough to try?

Simple. The first 15 augment levels only ever give accuracy, and I don't care about them very much. So after I complete one piece and start moving on to the next I'm in no rush to get the first few levels ASAP. I just store my matters in my mog sack until the end of the week and buy whatever leftover shards I need when the market is favorable and they're on the cheap side. It takes time to run to the synergy furnace and make jewels, so I just do it when I can make a bunch of them and then trade them all in bulk.



If you recall ambuscade capes USED to work the same was too. You had to trade each individual resin, dye, sap, thread, and fiber and go through the series of confirmations almost a hundred times... per cape!. They changed it so that after you trade the first and set the path you can trade the next 4, 9, or 19 all at once. The furnace will allow you to accept however many jewels you've made and upgrade in the same fashion, but MAKING the jewels in bulk is impossible.

Gaol is the perfect shitstorm of why the ones that don't do it, don't do it.

Segments are obnoxious.
Failure is punishing.
You can't just run it back, you have to farm a new phone2.
No Sub job is a big handicap.
R0 is good enough for everything but doing more V25 (no reason to grow lol master trials)
"you need to get lucky to win" Auras, as the masses chant
No community, all boxes
No incentive to repeat
Most of the "strats" "require" non-meta builds / procs / wswalls (aka cant spam savage)
Lack of "good" whms, brds, plds in the pool who aren't done

Ask anyone who isn't doing it or quit, you'll get one of those answers. Or multiple.

SE has been adding bridge gear for almost 4 years now.

If I'm not mistaken:
Emp+3 Oct 2022
Gaol V25 Dec 2022


There isnt much gear released since then that usurps anything from those two sets. Theres some armor from Limbus that does and its gated behind 2.5 months of grind (not including freebies from data which is limited to the most haijin of players) per piece.

I'm not sure your point. They nerfed voidwatch within a year because Adoulin was coming out shortly after and it didn't need to keep people occupied. The length of time Odyssey has remained unnerfed is longer because they don't have a replacement for it.

Players aren't entitled to get all gear after N months. If/when they nerf Odyssey, there'll be a new carrot either released or on deck.

Gear is not the variable that needs fixing. Short of godmode. 50DT is basically handed out. The only lever to pull is add 1000 Meva or add 5k hp. They'll do neither.

Better DPS gear is just incentive to further ignore gaol.

But as they seem deadset on refusing to follow norms. Oh well.

The variable that needs fixing is perception. Players see it as impossible and see grouping as impossible and don't want to try it. The same group of 6 doing an 8boss Sortie could clear all V20s, T1-T2 V25, and start farming RP while attempting T3V25. They'll have their clears by the time their gear is approaching r25 for most of the NMs, and the sum time invested will be less than it'd take to get one prime.

Whiners have convinced people this content is impossible. It really isn't. You don't need aura luck. You don't need perfect gear. No subjob isn't a handicap when the content is designed around it, it's a reduction in duties.

If your only goal is winning, you can convert your amp RP back to segments. Let's say you reliably get to 40%, you're getting 2700 RP back and only paying 1800 a run. Your single 30 minute segment run pays for 6 attempts at the boss. You can even do those 6 attempts back to back on the one day a week your team's free time aligns if you want, because there's no restriction on how often you enter Gaol.

Perception is unfixable

Someone whos deadset on meva minus aura equals death isn't going to magically change their mind.

Gaol is one of the few events, maybe even the only one I can recall, that quite literally rewards you for failing, due to amplifiers and the RP bonus.

Yes, but that doesn't work at R25 cap going for R30

You get rewarded for failing, until you've failed 5~6 times. At which point failures are just failures.

I'm referring to t3 and t4. Should be obvious.

Like I said, the issue is finding a group willing to do them. How many groups do you know still doing v25s.

How many people that have already cleared them are will g to do repeats for others? Be honest.

All the v25s t2 and v20 t3 wins I have I had to box 2 or 3 because lack of people. That ***isnt fun, so no thanks. Thanks for playing the "skill issue" game though.

I could also full automate 6box them with my own bots, but that's just addiction at that point, why bother.

It takes 11 amp-only runs to get a piece to R25 on V25. T3s have several worthwhile pieces. You can still cash out the RP for segments if you really don't want any of them. You're going to get rewarded for failure until you win.


People who are willing to organize a group of 5 and carry the hopeless whiner to victory? Probably just Maletaru.

People who are willing to attend a group led by someone friendly putting effort into organizing? A lot higher than you'd think.

Yeah, okay. Thanks for playing. I don't even bother. I will piss on the design though, cause it's ***.

You talk a lot about grouping up Thorny, but didn't you bot your v25 wins with 6box? Isn't that hypocricy?

Kind of? It'd be hypocritical if I said nobody should 6box their wins. I'm not saying that though, I'm saying that the wins are attainable. I can see a valid criticism of myself for it, but it still just amounts to ad hominem. The validity of my argument doesn't rest on anything relating to my own behavior or character.

It is baffling to me that so many people think a MMO asking for a group of 6 is too much. Doubly so if you acknowledge the content itself isn't that hard (it isn't).

You can continue to augment gear until you reach the cap, which it's not a foregone conclusion that everyone attempting a V25 already has capped gear. Failing quite literally makes the player stronger over time. Besides that, you can convert RP into Segments, to the point that the amplifier cost is free and it's a net-gain of segments (off of the amplifier). I'm sure you wouldn't know this at all, but just pointing it out.

Also, I don't want to get philosophical or anything, but failures should be a lessons-learned. The group can easily talk out what went wrong and make the needed adjustments and then try again. So between all three of these factors, not only is your character naturally getting stronger by means of upgraded gear, you get "refund" points (so the loss is diminished), your group should be able to weed out errors in the strategy and get "better" with more practice.

The point you made that "failures are just failures" couldn't be any more inaccurate when it comes to Gaol.

And yet, they do not continue to try, so weird. Whatever could the reason be. I wonder. Gee. It's a tough one.

Yeah that generalized statement is just inaccurate. I am a living example who did Arebati V25 probably over 30 times (like 15 in one night) and repeated the exact same process I described above, and then finally our group became pros at it. People DO continue. You think people are going 1/1 on all 7 V25 T3/T4s? So clueless.

Talk about clueless. Comparing a no lifer example to people who gave up already.

Ask them why they gave up. There's thousands of them. I bet you can find one.

they listened to people like you for too long and internalized failure

Edit: I don't actually think that many people have made real attempts, gotten close, and then subsequently given up. It makes no sense to me that you could smell victory on a fight you only have to clear once and then decide you can't possibly adjust anything and retry. I see 'giving up' as something that happens after getting your clock cleaned once or twice while thoroughly unprepared, or before even entering.

I don't do odyssey at all. Ever. There are no "people like me".

I just know what the people tell me. What they spend their gil on and why. (spoiler, it's odyssey clears and rp runs, not better gear to keep trying)

If what you consider to be a "no lifer example" is someone who wanted to clear the hardest available content (besides ML), so they tried it as many times as they needed to until they got it, then that audience has to be considered for the example you gave in your initial post. If you're including random people who tried it a couple of times and said "this is dumb, im out", then that's a silly argument and a false equivalency. Gaol isn't designed for people to pop in and win and then dip. That's actually a problem with the players, not the content itself.

I more than once have joined a PUG shout for V15/20/25 only to have the party leader turn around and ask ‘ok who can pop it / bring us in?’, and of course no one in there can.

I see your point Thorny, not discounting that.

My point is, that while the content itself is attainable, it is still ***, punishing just for the sake of being punishing, and needs a nerf.

Bring on the salty tears from everyone that cleared them "the hard way" just like when Cop 6-4 level cap was raised. All those tears shall feed my soul through winter.

You also need to recognise that person that forgoed grouping up in favour of 6oxing advocating for others to team up and clear them is. You know what that is.

So your example is the group of people who are only interested in bypassing the content and not playing the game? That's who is "trying and failing and never doing it again...? Good grief Eiryl.

The content that I have no interest in / haven't actually truly attempted needs a nerf because people on the internet said it's too hard

I don't disagree that they could add something to make clearing it a little easier (they nerfed master trials at some point so top-end acc wasn't necessary). But those who cleared it "the hard way" (I assume you mean back when it was fresh) had to struggle WAY MORE than those who attempt it today. All of the strategies and unique comps are all ironed out, gear is much better than it was then, and most players have a naturally higher average ML than they did years ago when the content was new.

I wouldn't say anyone doing a Gaol T3 clear now is doing it anywhere close to "the hard way". Bumba v25 is another story, it's massive ***.

People want to do the content. The much bigger issue is people aren’t willing to do the V0/5/10/15/20/25 progression because of the skip / catch up mechanics. I’ve literally had returning players with barely V0 tier gear refuse to aid others with V10 Bumba because ‘I’ll wait until v20-25 Bumba runs for more RP’.

I want some form of option like provides to United Concord where you can help but not lose points / get a reward. Let people help others with V clear without it costing segments. Those with higher tier limit access would be more willing to aid imo.

I think SE should allow players to unlock higher vengeance levels with segments. If players had access to the content, there would be a lot more players participating in the content.