Bad players exist soley for me to make fun of
I enjoy watching people wipe... man those were the days... abyssa if its white its right... lets stop with the carebare attitude.
Dev Tracker - Discussion
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Dev Tracker - Discussion
Hell we used to have ls events where we'd pull up a chair at a reisen pop spot and just watch the fun.
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Afania said: » Leviathan.Andret said: » Okay sooo... The elite monk is the best player compare to the 95% utter trash and if none of the other 5% elite is playing. It's like you're rank 5th out of a 100 and 94 people don't really know how to play or just don't play? It's like I am the greatest Baker in town because nobody bakes anything in this town other than bricks. Just because one person isn't top 5%, doesn't mean that person is utter trash, lol. That's an extremely elitist pov about dd performance. Essentially saying you need rema AND every single hq/dm augments AND have different acc attk stp buff tier sets, always engage first every fight, ws at perfect timing 100% of time or else you are utter trash. Because if you don't have all of above listed quality, you will not make it to top 5%, nor beat a mnk with above listed quality. Say if a top end mnk is 20%(I don't know the exact number atm, since I haven't check their dps post update, but it should be the same range) behind a GS war in none zerg situations. In reality, you would see parse something like this, assuming player has similar quality as DD. WAR1: 22% WAR2: 20% MNK1: 17.6% DRK: 23% remaining=sc and support tanks. That's the real difference on parse between a DD that's 20% dmg behind another dd. You will not see a gigantic different like WAR 50% MNK 20% on parse between 2 equally skilled and geared player unless war pops MS. You can kick the mnk and invite another DD Like SAM, and maybe next parse would be something Like this: SAM 19% WAR: 15% WAR: 23% DRK: 20% You see, variations exist so in real practice it makes no real difference. That doesn't make these players "utter trash" or anything, and I think it's very extreme to claim that way. Also have to say that 95% of playerbase will not be elite to the point to have hq in every single slot, use situational sets for different acc, attack, stp tiers, thus not top 5%. If you think that makes them "utter trash", then you are pretty elitist, lol. So your 95% is not actually 95% but something else? What is this then? Afania said: » The "play properly" that you described, are actually the minority. The top 5%. 95% of "Rema DD" that I've pt with, will not out parse the elite mnk that I've seen. Then you see random ambuscade N pt reject MNK anyways, when they don't have top 5% 2h DD themselves. The point is not about elite or whatever. It's about comparing with yourself or your peers. You don't compare with people who are not similar to you and say they are better or worse. You don't compare professional and amateurs and say professionals have better skill. You don't compare elite monks with average players and say the elite monk wins. You don't compare the top 5% with the remaining 95% and say they are better. So it goes back to the core of the problem: monk is not a good job by itself compare to other jobs doing the same function. Can a player use monk as a DD? Yes. But so is DD Rdm if the player is just as good. Can Monk be used to clear most content? Yes. So is the average Whm with DD Trust. Monk is somewhere in the lower middle on the melee DD. Roughly the same as Cor (in terms of pure melee power) and Nin but higher than Pup and Bst without pets. That's not bad by itself but generally bad when you add in the fact that Cor has much stronger buffing power. Nin is probably closer to Monk than everything except that it can tank decently and MB if geared for it.
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I believe in the tough love mentality...
Examples Thanks for keeping the bottom of the parse safe.. How is the weather down there? Atleast your good at missing Dont hit the magic burst or ima kick you Afania said: » The "play properly" that you described, are actually the minority. The top 5%. 95% of "Rema DD" that I've pt with, will not out parse the elite mnk that I've seen. Then you see random ambuscade N pt reject MNK anyways, when they don't have top 5% 2h DD themselves. Leviathan.Andret said: » The point is not about elite or whatever. It's about comparing with yourself or your peers. You don't compare with people who are not similar to you and say they are better or worse. You don't compare professional and amateurs and say professionals have better skill. You don't compare elite monks with average players and say the elite monk wins. You don't compare the top 5% with the remaining 95% and say they are better. Unless elite ls is all everyone ever play with, why not? There will always be possibility that a career mnk wanted to join a random N or D PUG or something. In that case, the elite mnk IS competing with returning players who build a ragnarok on war first and gimp in every other slot. And all these "mnk suck" comment from elite community certainly don't apply here. I do not argue that if you are in the "elite ls of your server", you may not get to come mnk for a woc zerg because 10 other people has HQ warrior. Nor I ever argue that they should get invite in such scenerio. We do not compare professional with amateur irl, because when you are applying for a high paid job, you do compete with professional. But if you are applying for a volunteer or entry level position, then comparing professional with amateur is totally fine. This goes the same with PUG v.s top end ls. Job picking makes sense in Endgame ls when leaders know very clear who will parse top AND every member would have top end gears from merc/able to kill stuff. It makes no sense in PUG when you don't actually know people. And I certainly see many people rejects mnk without reason just because the job has a bad rep, even if that mnk has HQs v.s everyone else doesn't. Leviathan.Andret said: » Nin is probably closer to Monk than everything except that it can tank decently So can MNK, just saying. It's a job with Ken set access, highest hp and subtle blow. Survivability is one of MNK strength, just that elites don't give a damn about survivability because their support/healer is top. And they are usually most vocal people on forums. nin can also self multi step skillchain and mb for massive dmg!
Yeah guys. Let me come MNK to SR ffs.
Asura.Zanosan said: » Yeah guys. Let me come MNK to SR ffs. Who cares about MNK when you have SMN?
Asura.Frod said: » Who cares about MNK when you have SMN? / My facts I don't like sense is tingling
Afania said: » WAR1: 22% WAR2: 20% MNK1: 17.6% DRK: 23% 22/17.6 = 25% Better And that's your bandwagon WAR vs super MNK. In actual game play it's somewhere around 30~40% better. Now something a bit more realistic WAR 50% MNK 36% SC 14% ~Only~ 14% behind so "not bad" right.. 50/36 = 38.8% better.  clearlyamule said: » Damn, thought that might have been the case. BGWiki led me astray. Asura.Saevel said: » Afania said: » WAR1: 22% WAR2: 20% MNK1: 17.6% DRK: 23% 22/17.6 = 25% Better And that's your bandwagon WAR vs super MNK. In actual game play it's somewhere around 30~40% better. I can see 30% better possible in shorter fights when everything is over in 2 min, and war got more benefit of warcry, while mnk doesn't get that much benefit due to lower weight in ws white dmg ratio.. 40% better without MS? I really really really doubt it. Maybe it's 1 min fight or less? If fight last longer like 3+ min I seriously doubt that's possible, lol.
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Afania said: » 40% better without MS? I really really really doubt it. That's because you don't understand damage mechanics. Damage in FFXI is about combining powerful WS's with extremely short average cycle lengths. Cycle lengths are determined by two factors, first is number of hits in the cycle (Store TP) and the second is average attacks per round (Multi-Attack). Any job with a large innate bonus to either of those two factors has a huge advantage over the rest. That leaves two jobs and one special mention a cut above everything else. First is WAR due to it's +33% natural DA combined with Retaliation (free attack rounds), second is SAM with it's +45 Store TP and free zanhasso multi-attacks. Thief gets a special mention because they can rock ridiculous amounts of TA but are hampered by those JA timers, yet when deployed properly they are insane SC closer's. DNC also gets a mention because of Saber Dance but are further hurt my JA delay so again tactical application. Now look at a job and ask the following questions #1 Does it have a powerful WS to exploit? #2 Does it have a natural bonus that reduces cycle length? #3 Does it have the gear to take advantage of those two above questions? That is the harsh truth of damage in this game. MNK fails badly at the first two and ends up at the bottom because of it. Yes 40% behind is realistic. Amazing melee damage, but this game hasn't been about that in years. E X P L O I T A B L E W E A P O N S K I L L S
Monk can do quite well in longer fights with the right buffs. It's at least more fun than bringing WAR to everything.
If it's a super short fight obviously WAR is better, but if you're that overbuffed you can bring literally any DD and win so who cares? Gear it and parse it yourself and see, it's not as bad as everyone seems to think. No its as bad as everyone thinks, i have a BIS mnk and its still behind my other DDs. Its not even close.
Also its not cool to gimp whatever pt you're in by comming a DD that will suck. My professional opinion is "You can polish a turd, but its still a turd. Its just now a shiny turd"
mnk is 60% useful compared to other dd's
according to this napkin math changemymind_meme.jpg Foxfire said: » mnk is 60% useful compared to other dd's according to this napkin math changemymind_meme.jpg Lakshmi.Darkdoom said: » Monk can do quite well in longer fights with the right buffs. It's at least more fun than bringing WAR to everything. Fight durations have zero effect on this comparison. A 60s fight ends up the same as a 60hr fight. |
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