Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
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By SimonSes 2019-10-19 02:56:09
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Asura.Elizabet said: »
You're thinking of Carmine Legs? RDM ain't on Adhemar. Also, I would think the dw on cape instead of the stp might be a better option to keep malignance legs, instead of carmine +1.

No, he was thinking about Adhemar. Its just typical Saevel. He comes try to be smart about something he didnt even check before posting, then explain some basic stuff like how occasionally attacks work with multi-attack even if none asked for it, then throw some made up terminology (there is no such thing like 100MA. Its simply + 1.0 avg attack per round. Also saying that
Asura.Saevel said: »
Also since QA, TA and DA are multiplied by each other, high amounts of one can devalue the others.
is totally confusing. This wording is totally off and if you explained how oax works with MA why havent you explained qa, ta, da too when its basically the same with priority of qa>ta>da>oax.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-10-19 03:55:41
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You guys do realize that Store TP has diminishing returns like everything else in this game. Don't swing the pendulum to much in the other direction. WS related damage is a balance between TP per hit and frequency of hits. I gave a very general conversion for comparison but its not absolute. Hell just add Samurai's roll and see what that does to the balance.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-19 04:21:57
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RDM has no such problems really. You only have one good tp set now, which is Malignance and multi-attack is covered by temper II. There is almost no slots when you would choose between stp or ma (beside maybe ring), unless single wielding or not using enspells.
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By Pantafernando 2019-10-20 19:39:18
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Hi.

Recently started to poke enspell on stuffs.

Got a few question on it:

1. Do crocea mors boost to enspell affects both hands?

2. Tried enspells on both mid and zone boss, and in both the dmg went down to 10% (20~40). Is that the resist effect or some native MDT on those bosses? Actually is it feasible trying to beat those bosses with enspells?

3. About the waist slot i know orpheus should be BiS but if i dont have it, is elemental obi an option? or the day bonus is granted regardless of waist?

Thanks in advance
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By Asura.Elizabet 2019-10-20 20:01:32
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1. No

2. you mean the big statue that trigger wave 2? You were likely seeing resist, enspells still need MACC and are otherwise subject to normal magic resist rules, on a per swing basis.

3. orpheus is not always bis. In general orpheus is a good bet. Obi beats orpheus if you are in the following situations:

a) You have double weather of the righht type, and your enspell is NOT weak to current day.

b) you have single or double weather AND current day matching your enspell element.

Obi gives you the boost and also the negatives according to the day/weather relationship. So for example, even if you have double wind weather but its iceday, you should orpheus for enaero until iceday has passed.
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By Asura.Geriond 2019-10-20 20:55:07
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Actually, unless you're using other sources of affinity (Pixie Hairpin +1 on Sanguine Blade, for example), point blank range Orpheus beats double weather or single weather + day because even without obi you still have a 33% chance of a weather/day proc.

Your average damage bonus with Orpheus and double weather is 1.15 x (1 + 0.333 x 0.2) = 22.67%. You need double weather + day for obi to have a higher average.
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By Asura.Elizabet 2019-10-20 21:21:06
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Code
10% bonus for magic of the day
10% bonus for magic matching single weather
20% bonus for magic matching single weather and day
25% bonus for magic matching double weather
35% bonus for magic matching double weather and day


Double weather is 25% with obi, you still beat Orpheus+proc.

Orpheus + proc (22.67%) beats single weather+day (20%) by 2.67%, a third of the time, I don't think that's worth it.

15+15+22.67 (1/3 proc) is still lower that 20+20+20.
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By Chimerawizard 2019-10-20 23:19:01
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The obi is better for double weather, but the the difference is negligible. That difference gets more pronounced with extra affinity gear like levante dagger.

sash
80*1.15=92
80*1.15*1.2=110 1.15*(1+.2/3)=122.67%
80*1.15*1.25=115 1.15*(1+.25/3)=124.58%
1.3*(1+.25/3)=140.83%

obi
80*1.2=96
80*1.25=100
1.15*1.25=143.75%

92+92+{110;115}={294;299}
3*{96;100}={288;300}
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By SimonSes 2019-10-21 04:34:15
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Asura.Elizabet said: »
Code
10% bonus for magic of the day
10% bonus for magic matching single weather
20% bonus for magic matching single weather and day
25% bonus for magic matching double weather
35% bonus for magic matching double weather and day


Double weather is 25% with obi, you still beat Orpheus+proc.

Orpheus + proc (22.67%) beats single weather+day (20%) by 2.67%, a third of the time, I don't think that's worth it.

15+15+22.67 (1/3 proc) is still lower that 20+20+20.

You misunderstood that. 22.67% is avg across all 3 hits. if you want to break it down in 2x non proc and 1x proc it would be:
15+15+38 vs 20+20+20.

Also afaik this:
Asura.Elizabet said: »
So for example, even if you have double wind weather but its iceday, you should orpheus for enaero until iceday has passed.
is only true for Hachirin-no-Obi, but not for single weather/day obis, but I don't think you would want to farm them again and lose inventory slots.
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By Pantafernando 2019-10-21 08:27:00
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Hi.

Just another newb question. I was playing with filters so i didnt notice but do enspell procs even on a missed hit?

Thanks in advamce
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-21 08:45:21
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No because that would be beyond broken. Could you imagine whiffing with a kraken club and still pumping out 1000+ AE/round and not landing a hit to feed any tp to the monster ?

Diff topic: Anyone can share their CDC set? I went back a dozen or so pages and didn't see any. Also not on front page but maybe I missed it in first post I see the set, but is it up to date? Thanks
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By SimonSes 2019-10-21 08:56:09
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
No because that would be beyond broken. Could you imagine whiffing with a kraken club and still pumping out 1000+ AE/round and not landing a hit to feed any tp to the monster ?

Diff topic: Anyone can share their CDC set? I went back a dozen or so pages and didn't see any. Also not on front page but maybe I missed it in first post. Thanks

Not really understand what you mean here :) You suggest that En spell damage doesnt wake up slept mobs?

You can do exactly what you described already with dual wielding daggers doing 0 damage. They don't wiff, but give 0 TP to a mob and with Temper II you have almost as much attacks per second as with single wielding Kclub (or maybe even more actually).
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By Pantafernando 2019-10-21 08:59:26
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Lol, aside bosses, dmg wasnt that terrible even wih lv4 dagger and no acc buffs.

Gonna try new buffs to see if i can get enough accuracy next dyna event.

Anyone know how much evasion mobs and bosses have in dyna div?

Thanks in advance
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By Torzak 2019-10-21 11:03:51
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SimonSes said: »
Not really understand what you mean here :) You suggest that En spell damage doesnt wake up slept mobs?

The difference is that with D1 Daggers hitting for zero, you need physical accuracy to match to the content. The question Buukki was answering was if the enspell dmg still comes into play on a whiff.

Simple Answer @Panta: No, enspells don't work if the physical hit flat out misses.

Edit:
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
..CDC set?.. ..but is it up to date? Thanks

If you're looking at the set that looks like 4/5 Taeon, I'd say that no, it's not up to date, but it's also not terrible if you don't have any strong need for accuracy.

I use:
Main: R15 Almace
Sub: Ternion+1 (acc isn't a problem) or Tauret (you want more acc)
Ammo: Yetshila +1
Head: Taeon
Body: Ayanmo+2
Hands: Malignance
Legs: Viti Tights +3
Feet: Thereoid
Neck: Fotia
Waist: Fotia
Back: Ambu
Ear1: Sherida
Ear2: Mache +1
Ring1: Begrudging
Ring2: Ilabrat

You could swap in Malignance Chapeau if you wanted more accuracy in the CDC set. If you wanted even more of an accuracy boost in the set, you could use Ayanmo+2 Feet.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-21 12:11:46
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Excellent! I have most of that stuff. thx a bunch
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By Aerix 2019-10-21 17:41:26
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Tauret offhand also has a solid amount of DEX/Atk which will boost CDC more consistently than Ternion+1. Tauret also has a lot more DMG with similar Delay for offhand white damage. All of that together should slightly beat out the TA+4%, unless you're always in a high buff situation.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-22 10:16:35
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Which is better for your refresh duration set: Grapevine Cape (flat 30 seconds) or Ghostfrye (+18-20% Enhancing duration)?

The guide shows Grapevine in the set, but in the feet slot it shows Empyrean+1 over Inspirited Boots (15 second increase) in a similar situation. I assume this is because the empy boots 30% give a larger duration bonus than the 15 seconds on inspirited, but I don't know where in the calculation those bonuses are applied (at the base spell duration value or after multiplying all modifiers/composure). So it's hard to tell.

Also, how close is Grapevine to Ghostfrye (assuming 20% aug) for Refresh duration (? If its only a few seconds off, i'll skip it.
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By Chimerawizard 2019-10-22 11:28:31
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if you don't merit enhancing duration, ghostfyre is easily ahead.
if you do merit it, grapevine is like 6 seconds ahead.
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By Asura.Elizabet 2019-10-22 11:42:11
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Ghostfyre can also get +enhancing skill, which makes it better for temper and enspells etc. But another alternative is the ambu cape it gets a +20% duration in its vanilla state and you'd likely have at least one of those.

For me, I don't even have a slot for the Grapevine Cape anymore because Refresh 3 last so long anyways that +/- anything around 10sec for refresh only is not worth the inv slot.
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By Torzak 2019-10-22 11:52:26
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Aerix said: »
Tauret offhand also has a solid amount of DEX/Atk which will boost CDC more consistently than Ternion+1. Tauret also has a lot more DMG with similar Delay for offhand white damage. All of that together should slightly beat out the TA+4%, unless you're always in a high buff situation.

The comparison of the two weapons is actually pretty fun/complex.

I don't disagree a whole lot with what you're saying, but the TA+4 affects WS dmg (randomly) and it affects Almace's dmg (Triple DMG), it affects enspell damage, and more importantly, it affects WS Frequency.

I've tried both weapons in parse offs against myself, and time and time again, I find myself using Ternion +1 more often than Tauret in the offhand.

Ternion also comes with a bonus bit of Subtle Blow.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-22 12:20:58
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i always forget ambu cape has 20% enhancing duration
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By Torzak 2019-10-22 12:23:10
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Ghostfyre's 19 is better than ambu's 20.
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By Aerix 2019-10-22 12:52:39
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Torzak said: »
Aerix said: »
Tauret offhand also has a solid amount of DEX/Atk which will boost CDC more consistently than Ternion+1. Tauret also has a lot more DMG with similar Delay for offhand white damage. All of that together should slightly beat out the TA+4%, unless you're always in a high buff situation.

The comparison of the two weapons is actually pretty fun/complex.

I don't disagree a whole lot with what you're saying, but the TA+4 affects WS dmg (randomly) and it affects Almace's dmg (Triple DMG), it affects enspell damage, and more importantly, it affects WS Frequency.

I've tried both weapons in parse offs against myself, and time and time again, I find myself using Ternion +1 more often than Tauret in the offhand.

Ternion also comes with a bonus bit of Subtle Blow.

I tend to always have Samurai Roll from a COR mule, so my damage is usually weighted more toward WSs (where DEX/Atk are important). So Tauret consistently parses higher for me than Ternion+1. I guess if you only have Trust buffs then Ternion+1 could be a better choice, but generally the TA+4% on it is somewhat devalued due to Temper II.

Then again, I suppose with Malignance we are somewhat low on TA now. So I'll have to reparse it at some point.
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By Torzak 2019-10-22 13:01:26
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Honestly, the TA+4's value has increased with access to Malignance Set, if anything.

Edit: You've edited your post to say basically the same sentiment I've said in this one. You can disregard my comment here.
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By Aerix 2019-10-22 13:03:34
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Yeah, I mentioned that in an edit before you replied. Either way, Crocea/Daybreak are so far ahead right now that I haven't been able to use my R15 Almace for most content. It's a bit of a shame, really.

In any case, Tauret probably still pulls ahead when using our old multiattack setups without Malignance for fodder mobs. But that's relatively niche.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-22 13:29:44
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Aerix said: »
Either way, Crocea/Daybreak are so far ahead right now that I haven't been able to use my R15 Almace for most content. It's a bit of a shame, really.

I dont think it's shame, it's actually cool that the best RDM melee setup is based on enspells and elemental WSs, instead of some general multi jobs builds.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-22 13:51:42
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SimonSes said: »
Aerix said: »
Either way, Crocea/Daybreak are so far ahead right now that I haven't been able to use my R15 Almace for most content. It's a bit of a shame, really.

I dont think it's shame, it's actually cool that the best RDM melee setup is based on enspells and elemental WSs, instead of some general multi jobs builds.
While I can feel the pain of people who R15ed their Almace etc, I have to wholeheartedly agree with Simon on this.

I agree RDM is different like that instead of yet another melee that shoots physical WSs.
I hope it's gonna stay.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-22 14:17:32
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I mean people argument against it is probably only about this build is based on weapon that you can buy from ah. I would kinda understand it if mythic, empy or relics beside gils require you to make something significant on RDM (doing 1000+ weapon skills doesnt count). Actually Crocea is the weapon that kinda force you to play RDM. You need to get to master to even use it and then it's generally better to save gils and get 25 rank by playing the job in Dynamis.
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By Aerix 2019-10-22 14:30:54
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Just did a quick parse to confirm:

Identical setup for both:
- Red Curry Bun +1
- Rostam Crooked Samurai Roll 11 / Chaos 11
- Idris Indi-Fury + BoG/EA Frailty
- Dia III
- Joachim/Ulmia/Yoran-Oran

TP:
ItemSet 369270

Debating whether to use Ilabrat over Petrov in general, but at Attack cap Petrov should win.

DW cape with Brutal+Windbuffet+1 is also very solid and likely a DPS gain. I opted to use Reiki+Eabani due to the extra HP, Magic Evasion, Accuracy and very slightly better Delay, but it's situational.

WS:
ItemSet 369271

R15 Almace/Tauret:



R15 Almace/Ternion+1:

(Forgot to check WS avg before resetting--sorry!)

Ternion+1 is very clearly ahead.
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