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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
By Argisto 2023-09-20 08:16:10
If you are not using Stymie for something else, Stymie Frazzle III is probably better since Stymie bypasses resistance ranks.
Stymie does not bypass resistance ranks, it just give you a 100% land rate (with the exception of Resist! traits procing) of your next enfeebling spell as long as your target is not immune to the spell. Resist states from resistance ranks are still factored into the spell duration of your Stymie powered spell.
Using Stymie with Frazzle will not change the fact that it is guaranteed a half resist on Shinryu because of its darkness resistance rank.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Shiva.Seraphione 2023-09-20 13:29:54
Stymie does not bypass resistance ranks, it just give you a 100% land rate (with the exception of Resist! traits procing) of your next enfeebling spell as long as your target is not immune to the spell. Resist states from resistance ranks are still factored into the spell duration of your Stymie powered spell.
Using Stymie with Frazzle will not change the fact that it is guaranteed a half resist on Shinryu because of its darkness resistance rank. Testing on lv10 bat (dark resistance rank 30%) shows you are right. Even when powered by Stymie, Frazzle III still keeps getting half resisted.
It seems its effect is indeed to prevent full resist of enfeebles (with the exceptions you mentioned), which takes priority over the forced full resist by rank 5% mobs, but does not influence the forced resistance level +1 from ranks below 50% (which is why we always get at least half resisted no matter how high our Macc is).
It probably also does not affect the floored magic hit rate forced by rank 10% mobs, but for two-state enfeebles such as Frazzle there is no difference since the worst case situation outside full resist is half resist.
So if Shinryu is indeed rank 50%, there seems to be no way to get around the guaranteed half resist.
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 Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10136
By Asura.Sechs 2023-09-20 14:18:36
So if Shinryu is indeed rank 50%, there seems to be no way to get around the guaranteed half resist. Rayke!
But realistically no, no way.
It's not even a big issue tbf, I was just wondering why and now I got it, so it's all good.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Shiva.Seraphione 2023-09-20 14:50:15
On jp wiki there is a theory posted about how enfeebling magic that can immunobreak has its own resistance ranks separate from elemental resistance ranks when it comes to enemies. This could possibly explain why Blind lands consistently for full duration while Frazzle, having to rely on elemental resistance ranks, is guaranteed a half resist. If you translate the page it's under Abnormal Satus Resistance.
The above lines up with personal experience but I have not been able to find any testing to support/refute it.
Edit: half, not full resist I did a more thorough (and safer XD) test to verify this theory.
Target: lv 42-46 skeletons (dark resistance rank 50%)
Spell: Sleep and Sleep II
Results:
(1) when wearing Chironic Hose to cast these Sleep spells, it always lands after one immunobreak
(2) when not wearing Chironic Hose to cast these Sleep spells, it always lands after two immunobreaks
This clearly confirms that skeletons' sleep resistance rank is 5%, deviating from their dark resistance rank 50%.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Shiva.Seraphione 2023-09-20 16:42:28
My test on skeletons led to another interesting finding: after the required one or two immunobreaks, sleep lasted for the full duration!
I then tried Blind on another skeleton. Consistent with Sechs' experience in the Shinryu fight, Blind lasted for the full duration.
Then I tried Stymie + Sleep II on another skeleton. This time, I got half resisted.
Finally I tried to Sleep and Blind on the level 10 bat. Both spells lasted for the full duration. For a monster with dark resistance rank 30%, it is unlikely that SE is so kind to set the resistance ranks for both Blind and Sleep at above 50%.
Putting these together, my theory is that, for the special resistance ranks associated with immunobreak, the normally guaranteed half resist does not exist even if the resistance rank is below 50%. This is why Blind can last for the full duration against all these different dark resistant mobs. Similarly, when immunobreak downgrades the skeleton's sleep resistance by two levels, Sleep can also land for the full duration without any issue.
On the other hand, the floored magic hit rate at resistance ranks 5% and 10% still apply. This is why, when forcing a Stymie powered Sleep on the skeleton against its original 5% rank, the spell is half resisted because that is the only possible outcome when full resist is prevent by Stymie while the magic hit rate is floored by its resistance rank.
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 176
By Asura.Yottaxa 2023-09-20 18:14:56
This would explain when I would do Odin how my immunobreaked silences would always last full duration, but a stymied silence would always seem to wear off in 1/2 the time.
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10136
By Asura.Sechs 2023-09-21 11:51:12
Btw which of Shinryu's TP moves apply amnesia?
I've seen Barfire/Baramnesia suggested to avoid Amnesia, but I can't see any of his moves Applying amnesia, at least according to BGwiki.
Because in that case I'd rather Barblizzard/BarPara, which is the only debuff that (very rarely) lands on me from Gyre Charge.
By Lili 2023-09-24 05:53:30
Because in that case I'd rather Barblizzard/BarPara, which is the only debuff that (very rarely) lands on me from Gyre Charge.
I also have never seen amnesia land from Shinryu on my RDM (I checked the logs!), but yesterday by complete chance I was reading logs from my BRD alt and there it is, amnesia expiring:
Code
01:44:26 Shinryu destroys the Luopan.
01:44:27 Othercharacter's amnesia effect wears off.
No indication as to what move might be causing it, tho I'm inclined to think it's Protostar since it resets JAs. This BRD idles in this set:
Code
sets.Idle = {
main="Daybreak", sub="Genmei Shield", range=Idle_Linos, ammo=empty,
head=Fili_head, neck="Bathy Choker +1", ear1="Infused Earring", ear2="Eabani Earring",
body="Ashera Harness", hands=Fili_hands, ring1="Stikini Ring +1",ring2="Defending Ring",
back=Meva_cape, waist="Flume belt", legs=Fili_legs, feet=Fili_feet }
I wonder if it's something ultragimmicky like "if you fully resist the paralyze from Gyre Charge you get Amnesia instead". I mantain that this fight has some extra gimmicks that nobody ever explored - would explain why I have seen no doom at all for three weeks straight.
By Argisto 2023-09-24 22:03:02
Shiva.Seraphione said: For a monster with dark resistance rank 30%, it is unlikely that SE is so kind to set the resistance ranks for both Blind and Sleep at above 50%.
I disagree with this sentiment and it contradicts your statement on the last page about Odin
Shiva.Seraphione said: Odin seems to be another good example. His wind resistance rank is 70% but it always takes some immunobreak before Silence can land. I just went in Odin D with /blm to do a small test. Unsurprisingly, an Elemental Seal Silence got fully resisted. I think this confirms that his Silence resistance rank is indeed either 5% or 10%.
Enfeebling magic that can immunobreak operates on a different resistance check separate from elemental resistance ranks and is clearly evidenced by a Stymie powered silence landed on Odin without immunobreaks is guaranteed to last for half duration. This would not be the case if silence was operating on Odin's wind elemental resistance rank (70%). There is no reason it cannot work the other way for (most) bats who have a high resistance to dark but sleep and blind last for full duration.
Shiva.Seraphione said: my theory is that, for the special resistance ranks associated with immunobreak, the normally guaranteed half resist does not exist even if the resistance rank is below 50%.
This may be the case and is what the jp wiki states is the case on their resistance rank chart but there needs to be some testing and verification done.
One inconsistency I see is listing skeletons as A+ rank against sleep in their example. You can land a full duration Stymie powered sleep on a skeleton with just one immunobreak without Chironic Hose equipped. If an immunobreak only moves a status effect rank down one level then going from A+(5%) to A (10%) should still result in that Stymie powered sleep lasting for half duration.
Is the A+ rank listed incorrect? Does immunobreak move these resistances more than one rank without Chironic Hose? Does the fact that an immunobreak occurred remove the guaranteed half resist for all attempts at that spell afterwards until it lands?
I have so many questions and would love to be able to find the testing for how they came up with this theory.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Shiva.Seraphione 2023-09-25 13:54:49
Shiva.Seraphione said: For a monster with dark resistance rank 30%, it is unlikely that SE is so kind to set the resistance ranks for both Blind and Sleep at above 50%.
I disagree with this sentiment and it contradicts your statement on the last page about Odin
Shiva.Seraphione said: Odin seems to be another good example. His wind resistance rank is 70% but it always takes some immunobreak before Silence can land. I just went in Odin D with /blm to do a small test. Unsurprisingly, an Elemental Seal Silence got fully resisted. I think this confirms that his Silence resistance rank is indeed either 5% or 10%.
Enfeebling magic that can immunobreak operates on a different resistance check separate from elemental resistance ranks and is clearly evidenced by a Stymie powered silence landed on Odin without immunobreaks is guaranteed to last for half duration. This would not be the case if silence was operating on Odin's wind elemental resistance rank (70%). There is no reason it cannot work the other way for (most) bats who have a high resistance to dark but sleep and blind last for full duration.
The examples we have seen so far seem to indicate that the special resistance ranks asoociated with immunobreak generally make it harder for the corresponding enfeeble to land if it differs from the elemental resistance rank. This seems to be the case for both Odin and skeletons. JP wiki also states that the abnormal status resistance rank is basically the same as the elemental resistance rank, although it may differ in some cases such as skeletons. The questions is whether this seemingly exceptional situation could also work the other way around. I fully agree with you that the this possibility certainly exists (and I did not say it is impossible), but I do not think the probability is high.
Shiva.Seraphione said: my theory is that, for the special resistance ranks associated with immunobreak, the normally guaranteed half resist does not exist even if the resistance rank is below 50%.
This may be the case and is what the jp wiki states is the case on their resistance rank chart but there needs to be some testing and verification done.
One inconsistency I see is listing skeletons as A+ rank against sleep in their example. You can land a full duration Stymie powered sleep on a skeleton with just one immunobreak without Chironic Hose equipped. If an immunobreak only moves a status effect rank down one level then going from A+(5%) to A (10%) should still result in that Stymie powered sleep lasting for half duration.
Is the A+ rank listed incorrect? Does immunobreak move these resistances more than one rank without Chironic Hose? Does the fact that an immunobreak occurred remove the guaranteed half resist for all attempts at that spell afterwards until it lands?
I have so many questions and would love to be able to find the testing for how they came up with this theory.
I might have a theory to answer this. One thing that is not mentioned on the JP Wiki but is mentioned on the BG wiki, is that there seems to be a distinction between A+ and A rank:
Quote: At a rank of 10%, in addition to the additional resist state listed above, magic hit rate is automatically floored on them regardless of magic accuracy.
At a rank of 5%, all magic effects are forced to be resist level 4, regardless of any other factors. So at A rank (10%), magic accuracy rate just gets floored. BG wiki does not seem to mention the specific value of the floored magic hit rate, but ffxiclopedia says it is 5%. Based on the hypotheses that (1) the old information is still correct (2) Stymie prevents full resist from the A+ rank and (3) the special resistance rank indeed does not have the normally guaranteed half resist above C- rank (50% to 5%), then a Stymie powered sleep would only be dealing with the floored magic hit rate against the A (and A+ rank) mobs. In that case, it seems possible to have a 5% chance to land a full duration sleep.
Ir might be possible to verify this by first incurring one immunobreak on low level skeletons without Chironic hose, and then see whether a normal sleep spell could land and if so, observing its duration. If after one immunobreak Stymie is still required whereas it could land for a full duration, then I think the mystery level will increase.
I hope I can get some time to do more testing in the near future. As you said there are so many things to be tested, so many hypotheses and so many questions:p
Update: just did a small test on Apex Bat with the help of a GEO. The GEO's magic accuracy is decent, but it generally still required at least one immunobreak (without Chironic) for both sleep and blind to land on the Apex Bat (sleep sometimes needed two). Since immunobreak only occurs as of rank 40%, the bat family's blind and sleep resistance ranks are probably both 30%, same as their dark resistance rank (but blind might be 40%).
On the other hand, RDM landed a full duration sleep in one shot without immunobreak. This confirms that for the special resistance ranks associated with immunobreak, the normally guaranteed half resist as of rank 50% indeed does not exist.
What is left is skeleton's precise sleep resistance rank and the mystery of the full duration sleep after one immunobreak. This requires a lot of samples so will take some time XD
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By Argisto 2023-09-26 14:28:36
Shiva.Seraphione said: At a rank of 10%, in addition to the additional resist state listed above, magic hit rate is automatically floored on them regardless of magic accuracy.
At a rank of 5%, all magic effects are forced to be resist level 4, regardless of any other factors.
Thank you for pointing this out! :D For some reason I was thinking ranks 5% and 10% operated alike but that is not the case. This indeed confirms A+ rank against sleep for skeletons.
There is also the the interesting claim that Threnody has no effect when attempting to land spells with the immunobreak status. So many mysteries!
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10136
By Asura.Sechs 2023-09-27 10:16:48
Today I was experiencing something I can't explain.
We said before that Cataclysmic Vortex is a TP move that does magic-based damage, 100% of your current HP with Wings closed, 150% with wings spread.
Can be reduced with xDT.
With this said I noticed that on my character it was usually doing up to ~800 damage in one mode and up to ~1500 damage in the other mode.
But today those values were more around 1000 and 1800 respectively.
How can that be?
Day was Iceday, for what it's worth. Don't think day has anything to do with it.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Shiva.Seraphione 2023-11-12 06:20:28
This would explain when I would do Odin how my immunobreaked silences would always last full duration, but a stymied silence would always seem to wear off in 1/2 the time. Our discussions in September have brought me great success for the V1VD Ambuscade this month.
I have basically killed the frog using the Odin strategy. At 51% HP I wait for Silence to wear off and get in one immunobreak with Chinoric Hose. Then, I force a Silence to land with both Stymie and Saboteur active. So far, that Silence always lasts for the remainder of the fight, seemingly to allow me to completely avoid Kaustra.
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Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10136
By Asura.Sechs 2023-11-22 16:16:23
I have a plethora of questions for other RDMs who engaged on Aminon.
1) Care to share your Black Halo set?
2) Which would you prioritize between SlowII and ParaII?
3) Do you feel Blind2 and Poison2 ever made a difference? Should we bother to land them or not?
4) Which Group2 merits do you use for Aminon? 5/5 Enf duration for sure I guess, but then Macc 5/5 or Immunobreak 5/5?
5) Anything else you found useful other than keeping Haste2/Refresh3/Phalanx2 up on everybody in the party?
In the end I settled up to lock my MH to Maxentius and my shield as well so that I do not lose TP.
That's very annoying but there's really no other way around, is there?
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 Bismarck.Drakelth
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 739
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2024-01-25 16:05:24
Super niche question but if one was doing ws trials with an offhand KC would temper II help or hinder the tp gain?
By drakefs 2024-01-25 16:43:39
This question depends heavily on what your max enhancing skill is.
Average attacks per round with the Kclub is 3 (well 2.91) 4.05 with ~70% of the distribution being 3,4 or 5 attacks.
Max Enhancing skill is 700+, so 40% TA from Temper.
Very doubtful Temper II is lower TP gain, since it also affects the main hand and when it does proc for the off hand, it is on the low end of the distribution for number of attacks. I am sure someone could math it out... just not me.
Bismarck.Drakelth
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 739
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2024-01-25 17:05:46
This question depends heavily on what your max enhancing skill is.
Average attacks per round with the Kclub is 3 (well 2.91) with ~70% of the distribution being 3,4 or 5 attacks.
Max Enhancing skill is 700+, so 40% TA from Temper.
Very doubtful Temper II is lower TP gain, since it also affects the main hand and when it does proc for the off hand, it is on the low end of the distribution for number of attacks. I am sure someone could math it out... just not me.
668 enhancing so not that good compared to cap I guess, just getting back from a break. but I think that works out to a 36% ta rate.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 2685
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-01-25 17:19:43
Average attacks per round with the Kclub is 3 (well 2.91) with ~70% of the distribution being 3,4 or 5 attacks.
? Source?
BG Wiki lists 4.05 attacks/round, and the data some guy on ffxiah posted lists 3.82 attacks/round.
Either way, KC will have its TP reduced *Slightly* but your MH will gain a massive amount of TA. Temper 2 is worth using in pretty much any realistic scenario on RDM, unless your enhancing skill is TERRIBLE. This is even more true when your KC acc isn't capped.
If you have a KC, definitely cast Temper II at all times.
Bismarck.Drakelth
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 739
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2024-01-25 17:28:13
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Average attacks per round with the Kclub is 3 (well 2.91) with ~70% of the distribution being 3,4 or 5 attacks.
? Source?
BG Wiki lists 4.05 attacks/round, and the data some guy on ffxiah posted lists 3.82 attacks/round.
Either way, KC will have its TP reduced *Slightly* but your MH will gain a massive amount of TA. Temper 2 is worth using in pretty much any realistic scenario on RDM, unless your enhancing skill is TERRIBLE. This is even more true when your KC acc isn't capped.
If you have a KC, definitely cast Temper II at all times.
Thanks for a definitive answer. I was leaning this way but was curios as I was doing mythic trials lol
Odin.Lawii
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 62
By Odin.Lawii 2024-01-26 08:51:41
This will get you 702 Skill at M50 with a little over 22 mins of duration.
Pukulatmuj +1
Forfend +1
Staunch Tathlum +1
Befouled Crown
Viti. Tabard +3
Viti. Gloves +3
Atrophy Tights +3
Leth. Houseaux +3
Incanter's Torque
Mimir Earring
Andoaa Earring
Stikini Ring +1
Stikini Ring +1
Ghostfyre Cape
Olympus Sash
Bismarck.Drakelth
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 739
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2024-01-26 13:19:13
This will get you 702 Skill at M50 with a little over 22 mins of duration.
Pukulatmuj +1
Forfend +1
Staunch Tathlum +1
Befouled Crown
Viti. Tabard +3
Viti. Gloves +3
Atrophy Tights +3
Leth. Houseaux +3
Incanter's Torque
Mimir Earring
Andoaa Earring
Stikini Ring +1
Stikini Ring +1
Ghostfyre Cape
Olympus Sash
just need to +3 the boots it seems and grind some ml so not terrible lol
By drakefs 2024-01-26 18:56:11
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »BG Wiki lists 4.05 attacks/round, and the data some guy on ffxiah posted lists 3.82 attacks/round.
Mistake on my part, missed a row when totaling total hits.
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Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 181
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-08-31 06:31:11
Aminon question:
Been throw the last few run into RDM (I’m the backup plan and can’t find one. So, so far performing as, hmmm, “expected”… ).
Looking for absorb TP sets and some spell explanations (my enfeeb was 611 and told I need 625 afterwards, and yet can’t find why). I do not have the regal gem but everything else should be accessible.
Also misc tips and I value information
Why did I volunteer for a job I never played, that is the question?!? /laugh
By Pantafernando 2024-08-31 06:43:17
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »Why did I volunteer for a job I never played, that is the question?!? /laugh
The same reason why employees work for a job they probably would never want to do.
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10136
By Asura.Sechs 2024-08-31 06:51:54
625 is the amount of enfskill you need to cap Frazzle III potency.
610 for Distract III.
Don't think there's any other (relevant) enf spell requiring that much to cap.
Realistically you need a certain amount of ML to be able to reach 625 without too many sacrifices in your gear slots.
Since some slots are kinda bound on "Enf Potency" stat, and on the rests you want to put as much Stat for potency and then as much Macc and Enf duration as possible.
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Sylph.Drlove
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Sylph.Drlove 2024-08-31 06:52:08
I've never done Aminon personally, but the reason behind the 625 skill for enfeebling is, Frazzle III cap. Distract III caps out at 610.
There is a break down on BGs community RDM here
Keep in mind the sets and can vary widely depending on your Master Level, and augments. Some of the sets could probably use updating to add in +3 armor, but it has all the skill caps and Dint/Dmnd broken down as well.
With absorb being Dark Magic, I wouldn't worry about enfeebling magic in the sets, I would probably lean towards Lethargy +3, and just got absolute bonkers on MACC/INT
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 Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1627
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-08-31 07:04:33
You need 625 enfeebling magic skill in your frazzle 3 mid cast to cap magic evasion down. Preferably with empy hands for the bonus to saboteur.
This set works when you are ML 47+:
Code sets.midcast['Frazzle III'] = {ammo="Regal Gem",
head={ name="Viti. Chapeau +3", augments={'Enfeebling Magic duration','Magic Accuracy',}},
body="Lethargy Sayon +3",
hands="Leth. Ganth. +3",
legs="Leth. Fuseau +3",
feet={ name="Vitiation Boots +3", augments={'Immunobreak Chance',}},
neck={ name="Dls. Torque +2", augments={'Path: A',}},
waist={ name="Obstin. Sash", augments={'Path: A',}},
left_ear="Malignance Earring",
right_ear="Snotra Earring",
left_ring="Stikini Ring +1",
right_ring="Stikini Ring +1",
back={ name="Sucellos's Cape", augments={'MND+20','Mag. Acc+20 /Mag. Dmg.+20','MND+10','Weapon skill damage +10%','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
}
Distract 3 only need 610 skill, but it's Frazzle you're chasing for absorb-tp.
If you need more acc for Black Halo and m.acc at the same time, you can upgrade this beauty Deliverance +1
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Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 181
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-08-31 08:24:36
- frazzle 3=625, got it. Got most of locus set, don’t have the gem nor the second stikini. Can probably compensate with the DI earring and some ML. Totally miss the small box on the side of BG that state the 625.
- still looking for an absorb set, I believe I nailed one down, just one try/day for a failed attempt is always good exercise for team building lol.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 137
By Asura.Chendar 2024-08-31 10:21:23
If you need more acc for Black Halo and m.acc at the same time, you can upgrade this beauty Deliverance +1
Speaking of shields there's also Forfend +1 which you might already be carrying for enhancing skill+ sets for non-dw situations. 1 more macc, but like 10-15 less acc.
I'd say the tolba one has more use overall, but fighting tolba kinda sucks and if you really need the acc, you really need the acc. so yeah.. Ammurapi is still ideal for straight macc ofc.
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