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Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close
Shiva.Gib
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By Shiva.Gib 2015-01-16 08:04:33
By leo 2015-01-16 08:07:05
The local TV here just mentioned the hijacker gave up and released all the hostages.
A lot of maybes, might, could dos. Ending with a theory 120 others ready to strike. Scare time.
This is the sort of media that pisses me of, especially when it gets transferred to newspapers.
The big bold headlines will say something like 'Muslim terrorist holds hostages at gunpoint. With other cells ready to strike'
Then in small print tell you it's only a theory.
But not all people read small print or just see headlines as they pass.
I honestly don't pay much attention to that, because as you mention, it usually is exaggeration. And it's like a vaccine. You eventually build natural resistance to that kind of stimuli.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 08:10:02
Downplaying Muslim terrorists in light of things like IS and governments that are basically terrorist supporters.
The IRA is a terrorist organization. In my opinion many (not all, but many) "civillian militias" in the U.S. are terrorist organizations. There are all kinds of religious and non-religious terrorist groups worldwide.
Bad people are bad people and need to be stopped.
As horrible as the attacks in France are, there's far, far worse done on a daily basis that people don't get outraged enough about because it happens in "less important" places to them. I know for me going to news websites anymore is an exercise in anger management because of all the absolutely horrific things you read. This week in Nigeria there was a bomb strapped to a little girl and they put her in a marketplace where she and many others were killed.
What kind of sick *** does that? I'm pretty sure there isn't a single religion out there that condones that. What the *** is going on in your brain chemistry that says that's an okay thing to do? How can they even pretend it's about religion? Yet this was done by Boko Haram, a radical Muslim terrorist group.
Ugh. I don't even know where I'm going with this post anymore outside of "terrorism bad", but don't *** pretend there aren't plenty of Muslim terrorists. There are plenty of NON-Muslim terrorists as well, but it seems like you're going out of your way to prove they're somehow "not as bad" or "less of a threat" than the world thinks.
Agreed. While you're on the subject of Boka Haram; they're pretty much as looney as they come. Boka Haram literally means "westerners are haram(forbidden)". Its more like a Black Supremacist group with racist exclusionist ideals; Nigerians who hate "whitey", like many others in the world, Hijacking religion to enforce and oppress.
Now I put these points to you,
(I bet the few months of exchange between have actually lead to something tangible)
1.would you agree that religion should not be politicized, that politics should never have religions ambitions, and religions should never have political ambitions?
2.would you agree to an international law that banned the practice of using religion as a justification for war, oppression, favoritism, prejudice good or bad, discrimination, state provided benefits?
3.Would you agree that everyone is free to organize and assemble in their private life, outside of any political or state position, religious gatherings and sermons, providing that they were not political in nature?
If you do agree to those 3 we've arrived at a middle ground.
EDIT: Forgot to mention my original point;
Society and people everywhere would be better served if the media stopped grouping MASSIVE amounts of people together into 1 group.
Boka Haram would likely shoot me on site if they saw me within their neighbourhood or try to hold me hostage. I'm a Muslim with absolutely nothing in common with them other than the fact that my dad is black.
However, taking the above reality as context, there are way tooooo many people in this world that would consider me and Boka Haram one and the same. Even though my family is a mixture of european Nords and Arabs, and my values and principles while Islamic, are a different kind of "Islamic" than FOX news would have most people believe is "Islam".
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 08:15:51
There are a few points that could maybe be clarified better but broadly speaking, yes. I agree with those points.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 08:19:16
There are a few points that could maybe be clarified better but broadly speaking, yes. I agree with those points.
Awesome. The details could be hammered out in discussions and debate to arrive at a joint agreement, much like how 6 months ago we were at each others throats and today we can agree on things.
Now all we need is everyone in the world to accept tolerance and diversity as a situation that is never going to change, and see the beauty in it. Tall order.
By leo 2015-01-16 08:22:13
As someone who lives on a "pretty liberal" country I totally understand your point now, Blazed.
But you have to agree that back then (few months ago) when you were discussing this topic, you were not being very political and that was why people were being resistant to your comments.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 08:28:09
As someone who lives on a "pretty liberal" country I totally understand your point now, Blazed.
But you have to agree that back then (few months ago) when you were discussing this topic, you were not being very political and that was why people were being resistant to your comments.
I'll gladly say that I could do a better job at explaining myself and my thoughts, opinions etc, but I am lazy and more inclined to half *** things if I'm not getting paid for it.
More importantly, and seriously, I've done some growing (which is the goal for me, and why I do anything at all).
But I think many of you have done some growing too. The Hardliners (some) aren't sounding as crazy as they used to.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 08:36:09
I still maintain that the best solution is for religion to go away entirely. It wouldn't get rid of all the violence in the world, but it would take away a major source of conflict. But forcing that change upon people isn't any better that trying to force religion on people. Then you're just the opposite of IS; an atheistic terrorist.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 08:44:08
I still maintain that the best solution is for religion to go away entirely. It wouldn't get rid of all the violence in the world, but it would take away a major source of conflict. But forcing that change upon people isn't any better that trying to force religion on people. Then you're just the opposite of IS; an atheistic terrorist.
You and I differ on what we think religion is and what the cause of violence is.
You and I agree in condemning the violence.
You and I agree that we should aim for a world free of violence, even though it likely impossible.
You think Religion is a contributor, I think it is the easiest thing to Hijack as it can transcend ethnicity, skin color, age, sex, geographical locations and borders.
The question I have for you now, and what I think you need to ask yourself is;
Are you blaming religion because you don't believe in it from a faith standpoint or because you truly believe its teachings contributes towards the violence or is the "cause"?
But then again, I think if we're going to discuss religion, we should try to talk about each one individually, or at least group them into monotheistic such as the Abrahamic religions (christianity/judaism/islam) and the far eastern religions.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 08:49:27
I actually agree with you that it's an easy thing to hijack and isn't the "cause". But when you factor in that I personally feel religion is a bunch of hooey anyhow, I feel like, as a race, if we could all agree to set religion aside, you've got a MAJOR source of conflict removed.
Then, at that point, the crazies have no "divine justification" for their attrocities.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 08:54:16
Then, at that point, the crazies have no "divine justification" for their attrocities. Sure they will. "It's all a conspiracy!"
Personally, I believe that the removal of religion would remove a major source of conflict, but it wouldn't reduce the amount or intensity of conflict.
People will still fight, they just won't use "Well, my God is better than your God" as an excuse.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 08:57:09
Then, at that point, the crazies have no "divine justification" for their attrocities. Sure they will. "It's all a conspiracy!"
Personally, I believe that the removal of religion would remove a major source of conflict, but it wouldn't reduce the amount or intensity of conflict.
People will still fight, they just won't use "Well, my God is better than your God" as an excuse.
But it's far easier to unite people against and wipe out a group of horrible war criminals when you don't have a potential religious dilema.
I'm not saying it would get rid of all the problems.
I'm just saying it would help.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2015-01-16 09:03:11
Then, at that point, the crazies have no "divine justification" for their attrocities. Sure they will. "It's all a conspiracy!"
Personally, I believe that the removal of religion would remove a major source of conflict, but it wouldn't reduce the amount or intensity of conflict.
People will still fight, they just won't use "Well, my God is better than your God" as an excuse. Religion is merely an excuse.
People will always find a reason to hate, be jealous and kill. Religion has become an excuse to manipulate people into doing it, much like our states are the same thing.
States make their whole country believe there is an enemy out there when there isn't (speaking of situations when the sole purpose was money, like Iraq, Libya and so on).
As much as religions are merely a way of life that a lot of people who aren't religious follow, too, it would be replaced by something as soon as you remove it.
Reminds me of Equilibrium. Any human community that doesn't follow a mentality that is similar to the Japanese one is literally bound to have members that are cancer. And even then, Japan has cancer, too. I'm saying this because there are things happening there that you would never imagine to happen outside of it.
All you can do for your ideals and your pleasure of living is to follow your own path and not pay attention to this crazy world. The less you care, the better it gets, just like video games.
By charlo999 2015-01-16 09:07:38
I'll agree that religion is a basis for a huge amount of evil and bloodshed in the world.
But I believe it's a direct result of man using it as such. Also to control and divide people.
Which is the biggest sadness I've seen, because at its core teachings, are good values and love.
I can see how it's an easy thing to blame on a whole given the state of the world. And how atheism can be an easy chose. I was myself for as long as I can remember until I gave the scriptures some time.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 09:11:27
The concept of religion is to control, nothing else.
Religion promises life after death without basis of argument. It creates the illusion of "follow my path and you shall be saved! If you don't believe what I believe, I will kill you for purification of society!"
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 09:12:27
Which is the biggest sadness I've seen, because at its core teachings, are good values and love.
I would debate that, but it's somewhat inappropriate to the thread and I just don't have the time today.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2015-01-16 09:15:34
I don't think you choose Atheism.
Even people who are born within religion may get out of it one day, because they simply do not believe in all of that or not the same way. Also, people who are born without any specific religious influence may convert to a religion.
I wouldn't say it's a choice though, it's more a matter of sharing values with a religion, or not, and wanting, or not, to be active within/related to it. But you don't suddenly choose to believe in something, that kind of stuff would only work for people who are really weak minded, or brainwashed.
There are a few religions that did strike me as familiar, but if I became Buddhist or Muslim tomorrow, it wouldn't really be choosing to be religious, it would merely be me saying "yeah, so, this religion has the same values as I do, might as well brand myself to make it official".
Blaming is a waste of time anyway, time is better spent trying to find a solution or doing things enjoyable.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 09:20:11
I don't know about that. I share many, many of the more common beliefs with Christianity. I just don't believe in, or see the need for, some all-powerful man in the sky to enforce those beliefs.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 09:22:21
I'll agree that religion is a basis for a huge amount of evil and bloodshed in the world.
But I believe it's a direct result of man using it as such. Also to control and divide people.
Which is the biggest sadness I've seen, because at its core teachings, are good values and love.
I can see how it's an easy thing to blame on a whole given the state of the world. And how atheism can be an easy chose. I was myself for as long as I can remember until I gave the scriptures some time.
I have a few atheist friends. The biggest problem that they have, is being unable to separate religion from God. Of course, I guess religious people have that issue too. I love Christopher Hitchens, in fact, I agree with every single thing he says. I also believe in a higher entity. The only way that I can agree with Chris Hitchens, and believe in God, is if religion has nothing to do with God.
Religion is a man-made construct. It's a belief set dictated by doctrine. For that reason, it will be just as imperfect and screwed up as the men that make it. Whether or not God exists has nothing to do with religion. You can drop a nuke on the whole world and completely kill every human being, thus killing religion at the same time, and that has no effect whatsoever on whether God exists or not.
Believe what you think is right. If you are making a decision about God on scientific evidence, then youre an idiot. The existence of God is not something science can ever prove or disprove. Science is designed for natural observable phenomenon, which God is not.
The proof? Think of it this way, if God does not exist, then you atheists are right, there is no evidence for God. However, if God does exists, then every single thing from the farthest galaxy to the smallest sub-atomic particle is not only evidence but proof. You just have to figure out whether you think he is there or not.
Sorry for the sermon. Religious people give God a bad name. Unfortunately, people convert to atheism because they can't tell the difference between religion and God.
Edit: I don't understand what people find so unrealistic about a consciousness existing in higher dimensions than ours. We humans have it covered up to the 4th dimension (Time). Why do we think that this is as far as something "alive" can go?
By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-01-16 09:23:03
That source failed to mention that Brian Kilmeade almost immediately followed up trying to clarify what he meant.
C'mon, dude
"bold, provocative soundbite followed by miles of half-assed caveats" is like, the oldest trick in the book
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 09:29:51
I'll agree that religion is a basis for a huge amount of evil and bloodshed in the world.
But I believe it's a direct result of man using it as such. Also to control and divide people.
Which is the biggest sadness I've seen, because at its core teachings, are good values and love.
I can see how it's an easy thing to blame on a whole given the state of the world. And how atheism can be an easy chose. I was myself for as long as I can remember until I gave the scriptures some time.
I have a few atheist friends. The biggest problem that they have, is being unable to separate religion from God. Of course, I guess religious people have that issue too. I love Christopher Hitchens, in fact, I agree with every single thing he says. I also believe in a higher entity. The only way that I can agree with Chris Hitchens, and believe in God, is if religion has nothing to do with God.
Religion is a man-made construct. It's a belief set dictated by doctrine. For that reason, it will be just as imperfect and screwed up as the men that make it. Whether or not God exists has nothing to do with religion. You can drop a nuke on the whole world and completely kill every human being, thus killing religion at the same time, and that has no effect whatsoever on whether God exists or not.
Believe what you think is right. If you are making a decision about God on scientific evidence, then youre an idiot. The existence of God is not something science can ever prove or disprove. Science is designed for natural observable phenomenon, which God is not.
The proof? Think of it this way, if God does not exist, then you atheists are right, there is no evidence for God. However, if God does exists, then every single thing from the farthest galaxy to the smallest sub-atomic particle is not only evidence but proof. You just have to figure out whether you think he is there or not.
Sorry for the sermon. Religious people give God a bad name. Unfortunately, people convert to atheism because they can't tell the difference between religion and God.
Edit: I don't understand what people find so unrealistic about a consciousness existing in higher dimensions than ours. We humans have it covered up to the 4th dimension (Time). Why do we think that this is as far as something "alive" can go?
So basically you're an agnostic, disbelieving in religion, but keeping open the possibility of some greater cosmic being who put into motion everything we observe.
I don't really have a problem with that. I don't necessarily agree, but as long as it gels with observable scientific facts I can't say you're wrong, either. Hell, I guess maybe I AM the same as you in that regard. But my acceptance of the possibility of some greater cosmic entity doesn't mean much in the scheme of the day to day here on our little blue planet. The idea of the Bible's "Jehova", so to speak, is utterly ridiculous, as are the contents/implications of every other "holy book" out there.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 09:33:04
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 09:35:06
Sorry. Coincidentally, I don't believe in reading VG Cats, either. Though that has less to do with spirituality and more to do with my feelings on web comics and the people who write them and the ethics of their "business".
But I digress.
By charlo999 2015-01-16 09:35:39
The concept of religion is to control, nothing else.
Religion promises life after death without basis of argument. It creates the illusion of "follow my path and you shall be saved! If you don't believe what I believe, I will kill you for purification of society!"
I don't know about that. I share many, many of the more common beliefs with Christianity. I just don't believe in, or see the need for, some all-powerful man in the sky to enforce those beliefs.
This is what I used to think but.
You need to look at it from a different point of view.
Look at god as a father. It is easier to do this if you are a father yourself.
His teachings are to aid us not confine us. As any father would do to a son. And for the same reason we teach our children morales and good. Why is this?
To enforce a happier life. Not matter how much your child rebels.
Also to respect your father is to learn humility. Something lost in the current world of self importance.
Think of scriptures as learning tools for our own benifit. And not tools for controlling us.
Do you not tell your children to do something's and they do it on the faith they have that your doing right by them. Even if you have to use tough love.
Remember the saying, there can be no love without trust/faith.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 09:36:20
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 09:42:40
Think of scriptures as learning tools for our own benifit. And not tools for controlling us. Except that's not how it worked in human history, nor how it works in current history (with Islam).
There has been many wars and campaigns (also crusades) where the main goal is to expand religion. Heck, the Mayans were eradicated because of the expansion of Christianity.
The Romans did it. The Greeks did it. The English did it. The French did it. The Germans did it. The Russians did it. The Chinese did it. The Japanese did it (somewhat).
In fact, it is historically proven that the church had more control and power at various points in time than the state had.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 09:42:56
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 09:51:19
Think of scriptures as learning tools for our own benifit. And not tools for controlling us. Except that's not how it worked in human history, nor how it works in current history (with Islam).
There has been many wars and campaigns (also crusades) where the main goal is to expand religion. Heck, the Mayans were eradicated because of the expansion of Christianity.
The Romans did it. The Greeks did it. The English did it. The French did it. The Germans did it. The Russians did it. The Chinese did it. The Japanese did it (somewhat).
In fact, it is historically proven that the church had more control and power at various points in time than the state had.
I've already stated that I agree with everything you say here. That humans have done a great job of using religion as a weapon
But there are good religious people too.
But when would that ever make the news, can you imagine.
Fred helps Margery across the road and buys her some food.
Or Sam houses a homeless man until he recovers from illness.
Etc.
Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2015-01-16 09:52:43
labels help people assign emotions to what is going on. if you just say some guy has a hostage then yes that is bad but people wont be talking about it for days. The news is the real terrorist. they use buzz words, labels and selective reporting to get ratings and money.
also to control public thought and mask the movements of the Illuminati.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 09:55:10
Think of scriptures as learning tools for our own benifit. And not tools for controlling us. Except that's not how it worked in human history, nor how it works in current history (with Islam).
There has been many wars and campaigns (also crusades) where the main goal is to expand religion. Heck, the Mayans were eradicated because of the expansion of Christianity.
The Romans did it. The Greeks did it. The English did it. The French did it. The Germans did it. The Russians did it. The Chinese did it. The Japanese did it (somewhat).
In fact, it is historically proven that the church had more control and power at various points in time than the state had.
I've already stated that I agree with everything you say here. That humans have done a great job of using religion as a weapon You believe that the scriptures are a tool for learning, but it's really a tool for control. That's why I pulled that one sentence out to show you that you cannot say that religion isn't used for control, but humans used religion as a weapon...
Quote: What percentage of terror attacks in the United States and Europe are committed by Muslims? Guess. Nope. Guess again. And again...
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.” How many times have you heard that one? Sure, we heard Fox News’s Brian Kilmeade say it, but to me, that was simply part of the Fox News plan to make their viewers dumber, as we saw again this past weekend when its terrorism “expert” Steve Emerson was caught fabricating the story that Birmingham, England, is closed to non-Muslims. But more alarmingly, even some reasonable people have uttered this statement.
And that comment is often followed up by the question: Why don’t we see Christian, Buddhist, or Jewish terrorists?
Obviously, there are people who sincerely view themselves as Muslims who have committed horrible acts in the name of Islam. We Muslims can make the case that their actions are not based on any part of the faith but on their own political agenda. But they are Muslims, no denying that.
However, and this will probably shock many, so you might want to take a breath: Overwhelmingly, those who have committed terrorist attacks in the United States and Europe aren’t Muslims. Let’s give that a moment to sink in.
Now, it’s not your fault if you aren’t aware of that fact. You can blame the media. (Yes, Sarah Palin and I actually agree on one thing: The mainstream media sucks.)
So here are some statistics for those interested. Let’s start with Europe. Want to guess what percent of the terrorist attacks there were committed by Muslims over the past five years? Wrong. That is, unless you said less than 2 percent.
As Europol, the European Union’s law-enforcement agency, noted in its report released last year, the vast majority of terror attacks in Europe were perpetrated by separatist groups. For example, in 2013, there were 152 terror attacks in Europe. Only two of them were “religiously motivated,” while 84 were predicated upon ethno-nationalist or separatist beliefs.
Or what about the (dare I mention them) Jewish terrorists? Per the 2013 State Department’s report on terrorism, there were 399 acts of terror committed by Israeli settlers.
We are talking about groups like France’s FLNC, which advocates an independent nation for the island of Corsica. In December 2013, FLNC terrorists carried out simultaneous rocket attacks against police stations in two French cities. And in Greece in late 2013, the left-wing Militant Popular Revolutionary Forces shot and killed two members of the right-wing political party Golden Dawn. While over in Italy, the anarchist group FAI engaged in numerous terror attacks including sending a bomb to a journalist. And the list goes on and on.
Have you heard of these incidents? Probably not. But if Muslims had committed them do you think you our media would’ve covered it? No need to answer, that’s a rhetorical question.
Even after one of the worst terror attacks ever in Europe in 2011, when Anders Breivik slaughtered 77 people in Norway to further his anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, and pro-“Christian Europe” agenda as he stated in his manifesto, how much press did we see in the United States? Yes, it was covered, but not the way we see when a Muslim terrorist is involved. Plus we didn’t see terrorism experts fill the cable news sphere asking how we can stop future Christian terrorists. In fact, even the suggestion that Breivik was a “Christian terrorist” was met with outrage by many, including Fox News’s Bill O’Reilly.
Have you heard about the Buddhist terrorists? Well, extremist Buddhists have killed many Muslim civilians in Burma, and just a few months ago in Sri Lanka, some went on a violent rampage burning down Muslim homes and businesses and slaughtering four Muslims.
Or what about the (dare I mention them) Jewish terrorists? Per the 2013 State Department’s report on terrorism, there were 399 acts of terror committed by Israeli settlers in what are known as “price tag” attacks. These Jewish terrorists attacked Palestinian civilians causing physical injuries to 93 of them and also vandalized scores of mosques and Christian churches.
Back in the United States, the percentage of terror attacks committed by Muslims is almost as miniscule as in Europe. An FBI study looking at terrorism committed on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 found that 94 percent of the terror attacks were committed by non-Muslims. In actuality, 42 percent of terror attacks were carried out by Latino-related groups, followed by 24 percent perpetrated by extreme left-wing actors.
And as a 2014 study by University of North Carolina found, since the 9/11 attacks, Muslim-linked terrorism has claimed the lives of 37 Americans. In that same time period, more than 190,000 Americans were murdered (PDF).
In fact in 2013, it was actually more likely Americans would be killed by a toddler than a terrorist. In that year, three Americans were killed in the Boston Marathon bombing. How many people did toddlers kill in 2013? Five, all by accidentally shooting a gun.
But our media simply do not cover the non-Muslim terror attacks with same gusto. Why? It’s a business decision. Stories about scary “others” play better. It’s a story that can simply be framed as good versus evil with Americans being the good guy and the brown Muslim as the bad.
Honestly, when is the last time we heard the media refer to those who attack abortion clinics as “Christian terrorists,” even though these attacks occur at one of every five reproductive health-care facilities? That doesn’t sell as well. After all we are a so-called Christian nation, so that would require us to look at the enemy within our country, and that makes many uncomfortable. Or worse, it makes them change the channel.
That’s the same reason we don’t see many stories about how to reduce the 30 Americans killed each day by gun violence or the three women per day killed by domestic violence. But the media will have on expert after expert discussing how can we stop these scary brown Muslims from killing any more Americans despite the fact you actually have a better chance of being killed by a refrigerator falling on you.
Look, this article is not going to change the media’s business model. But what I hope it does is cause some to realize that not all terrorists are Muslims. In fact, they are actually a very small percent of those that are. Now, I’m not saying to ignore the dangers posed by Islamic radicals. I’m just saying look out for those refrigerators.
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