IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-25 21:52:10
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/54265-Monk-Suggestions-to-make-it-more-party-efficient-and-attracive?p=608782#post608782

Head on over to OF if you feel like supporting the suggestions I outlined, or comment feedback on what you like/don't like. I specifically tried to stay away from "Fix WS Damage" because that's the obvious fix they aren't going to do, and I feel like Monk needs a bit more going for it to warrant bringing along to anything. If Damage is the true issue, then people will just bring other jobs along that can do it better.

Anyways, I posted it beneath in the spoiler. If anyone is fluent in JP and feels like translating for those forums, please do so. Or I might just copy/paste it into JP OF anyways just because.

edit: I pasted it in what I think is the JP forums MNK page. Let's hope doing that won't get me banned, but whatever.
Thanks


I decided to translate this over to JP using google sguiggle. I read it over using the chrome translate feature; hope it sounds good to a JP. In the short time it's up, its been viewed almost 3x as much as the NA forums, back when it was in english. Figured with that many eyes on it, might as well translate it now before it gets deleted or something.


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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-07-27 10:47:56
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I was curious about monks other potentual outside of direct dmg (which it lacks).

As a inspiration after seeing a guy on youtube by the name of genomeffxi, a player who back at level 75 had a exceptionally high guard rate for said level
So i tested its guard potentual at our current level with w/e gear that I had,
-Fighting Apex frogs in Woh's gates with BG wiki's estimate of level 131-133(as of july/2018) https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Apex .
-My guard skill is 680.
-I calculated which were guard by value on chat log rather than sight since i was writing the numbers down at the time, values that were 20 or below were considered guard with the exception of criticals which were anything less than 100 (Which were more like 9-20dmg crits when guarded).
-My general NORMAL dmg recieved varied between 50-153, guarded dmg was a frequent 0 dmg with some between 1-20, normal crits were 200+.
-Damage calculated was only damage I received and since frogs don't WS i had constant dmg of one type, I had a set of DT gear and a phalanx II spell casted on me by koru moru,. out of 2 rounds (Of writing down numbers continuously) I got 21/76 and 31/105 guard_dmg/normal_dmg, that should be about 28.72% chance of guarding.

I only have 261 JP's so my potentual for more guard is still wanting, however I was wondering if any monks with capped guard from traits and possibly a iLv_119 Teir3 REMA main equip (Since that has 27 more guard skill in comparison to standard weapons guard of 242), and if by any luck Anchorite's Hose +3 and w/e other guard skill increase, if they can test to see the potentual percentage increase for guard.

With guard and w/e little extra precaution added inbetween (Like a bards scherzo) to mitigate high WS dmg, and the ammount of Counter "Attack" and counter "Crit rate" recieved from Hesychast's+3 set(Along with normal crit rate added to that which could potentually take crit to 100% and dmg from crits increased from gear) along with subtle blow2 from gear which takes it to 75% subtle blow (Unless JP subtle blow is actually Subtle blow2 in which case it goes further since every other bloody trait is a cap breaker).

Monk has the potentual to be a Subtle fighter with its outwards dmg coming from counters rather than direct dmg only. albeit thats just assesment from far since i mainly have herc gear and lack alot of +3 artifact/relic to test it properly, in terms of high endgame group content it lacks severly of cause since boss WSs would anihilate monk with magical dmg along with them being too high in level in comparison to guards probable block rate, but perhaps as a solo/duo/trio combination it might do better than most in terms of staying alive while getting the job done for medium level content even if guard doesn't pick up, its counter/DT stands a possible chance to not redeam itself in terms of dmg, but atleast not look like its completely pathetic in comparison to the over welming dmg of other jobs.

~~Breaths deaply~~~ Release the trolls!!!
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By FichesAquarium 2018-07-29 15:14:12
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I mean Ninja, Dancer and Dark Knight have significant survival advantage over Monk and both do way more damage. Ninja with Miga and Shadows, as well as some tanking things and debuffs. Dancer have an actual tanking stance and amazing self heals. Dark Knight with their massive amounts of HP from Drain III and ability to restore their own health.

Dragoon won't pull threat and can restore their own health and crushes monk in potential damage.

Warrior are significantly more tanky than monk, offer better utility, can hit all damage types and do more damage with multiple weapon types.

Ignoring the fact that monk's damage is awful, if they were to remove the defense down on Counterstance and grant it 5% DT, then monk could actually reach PDT cap in basically offensive gear.
With the new weapon, you have 10% DT from that, Sagitta.
Then 6% DT from Moonbow Belt +1,
10% PDT from Ambuscade cape,
2% PDT from Herc boots,
Staunch Tathlum +1 for 3% more DT.

Then throw in a D-Ring and you're at, 34% MDT, and 46% PDT in nearly all offensive gear, with amazing counter rate. If you swap in the HQ Su3 set for chest, gloves, legs and head you'll also have outstanding magic evasion while maintaining high offense capabilities.

Then they could do things like increase Mantra's duration to 10 minutes, or the SP ability to 5 minutes and monk would at least be considered more tanky than other DD.

Unfortunately Counterstance is basically useless in all but solo situations, and even then its very niche and Guarding is worse than parrying.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-29 20:54:07
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I know everyone loves to state the obvious about MNK's WS damage, but saying "Monk's damage is awful" and "Ninja...do way more damage" than MNK are inaccurate statements. Yes MNK has issues at the upper-end of WSD, but they don't fall that far away from NIN in high-buff scenarios; possibly higher.
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-07-30 05:43:58
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In terms of monks base WS dmg they do do decently, but they require a crap load of buffs (Impetus and focus don't last very long and impetus resets frequently depending on your acc and now even boost sucks [which actually isn't worth using unless your tp hit 1000+ and your 6-10 seconds away from SCing off someone and that means for that 6-10 seconds your still not building your tp higher for crit_rates/varies with tp WSs + loss of white dmg then sucks further because of the long recast to get back into meleeing]), while ninja has the potentual to not only self SC easily, they also off hand weapons for more accuracy, stats and they also compensate any lack of physical dmg with tanking MB's, survivability, enfeebling, etc.

I do wonder tho, since boost increases in power the longer you wait, perhaps its gimmick is you have to raise your tp to 1000+,drop your haste or get slow or slow 2 casted on you and switch out haste/martial arts gear for +slow gear, and you pretty much wait a good 20-50 seconds to WS 30-50k? (While everyone else has done 100k-500k in multiple WSs in that time)

I keep trying and trying monk again and again trying to find w/e it is that the developers felt that monk's (Supposed) buffs/nerf last year were enough to make it on par with other DD jobs, but i'm falling flat on my *** to be honest, but i'm hopeing the day i get a spharai relic that I am working on but is taking a long time to do capped out, that it actually has some hidden meaning/damage that you can't see outside of REMA.

I'v heard of those with godhands pulling some decent numbers, I am curious about those with REM's how they hold up.

As a side note, i'v been testing monk/blu recently for cocoon,There is some promise but it requires more testing to trying and get a good combo right
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-30 07:00:00
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Yes MNK has issues at the upper-end of WSD, but they don't fall that far away from NIN in high-buff scenarios; possibly higher.

Yes they do... by a lot.

It's not about buffs, everyone gets buffs and if you want to toss "high buffs" then NIN smokes MNK by virtue of it's ridiculous WS damage potential. The issue with H2H WS is around exploitability, which is how easy it is to boost a WSs damage via gear swaps and buffs. No amount of gear or buffs will enable a MNK to deal comparable damage to any other DD in the same situation. MNK has a very low damage ceiling and it's that ceiling that people have been pointing to while others stick their fingers in their ears.
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By fonewear 2018-07-30 08:11:23
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Yes MNK has issues at the upper-end of WSD, but they don't fall that far away from NIN in high-buff scenarios; possibly higher.

Yes they do... by a lot.

It's not about buffs, everyone gets buffs and if you want to toss "high buffs" then NIN smokes MNK by virtue of it's ridiculous WS damage potential. The issue with H2H WS is around exploitability, which is how easy it is to boost a WSs damage via gear swaps and buffs. No amount of gear or buffs will enable a MNK to deal comparable damage to any other DD in the same situation. MNK has a very low damage ceiling and it's that ceiling that people have been pointing to while others stick their fingers in their ears.

I was reading this post with my fingers in my ears...so I assume monk is great.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-30 09:32:38
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Blade: hybrids are exploitable on NIN with max buffs, but on anything that matters (not talking about Apex), you can't get solid and amazing use out of it with any spectacular numbers. You're not going to get me to admit that MNK's WSD is "fine". Clearly their damage is lower in that department, and I'll agree DRK + DNC smoke MNK. NIN is much closer to MNK in terms of damage when you talk about using them both in a practical scenario, since Blade: Ten, though good, isn't exaclty doing Resolution numbers in comparison to Smite. MNK falls off when Impetus goes down for sure, and it could use a lot more help. But taking both NIN + MNK to end game events (you normally wouldn't, anyways), neither is "impressive" in that department tbh, and they are both relatively close.
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By FichesAquarium 2018-07-30 09:52:22
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With buffs, you can hit 40-60k on Ninja elemental weaponskills on Reisenjima tier NM. Then they can also nearly hit damage cap on magic bursts for their own skillchain.

With max buffs, the highest I've ever hit is 24k on a Victory Smite.

https://youtu.be/64_IXFwv-Q8?t=1333

In that video you'll notice a 70k weaponskill from a Ninja and that's without a bard or corsair.

Not sure what you're referring to as practical end game scenario. Do you mean a scenario that benefits monk?

I mean in most ideal scenarios you take a single DD and if that DD is Ninja, which you can clear all content with that setup, then your buffs should support the Ninja.

If you're doing double DD, a Ninja would still do more damage than a monk with purely physical buffs. I personally have both a rema monk and ninja, God hands monk and Kikkoku Ninja and my Ninja is consistently doing 400-500 more damage than my monk in fights that last longer than impetus duration with 2 DD and that's not including the skillchain damage nor magic bursts.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-30 10:07:29
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I get it. NIN WS can be exploited, especially when you throw out bolstered idris malaise+frailty to the equation with a 2-hit hybrid ws. I was not talking about doing it on a T1 Geas Feat NM. If that's the bar we are using for "NIN smokes MNK", meh.
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By FichesAquarium 2018-07-30 10:12:33
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Its just the only fight I could find a video of Ninja, not the only fight Ninja smokes monk on damage. No one makes Ninja or Monk videos, except that one girl whose kinda bad, I won't name here.

I love monk too, hence why I'm in the monk forums, and normally I'm the first to jump on the underdog bandwagon and prove that the underdog isn't as bad as people think, just as you're trying to do.

Unfortunately, this underdog bandwagon has justification, since FFXI isn't really a game about skill, monk is just unable to perform at a level it needs to. It's not a case of other's being buffed too high because literally every DD outperforms Monk in every field. There is no practical reason to bring monk to any content other than you want to.

On a side note, Ninja works well in tandem with Corsair DD. Debuffing an enemies magical resistance enhances Ninjas weaponskills as well as Leaden Salute.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-31 01:46:03
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FichesAquarium said: »
With max buffs, the highest I've ever hit is 24k on a Victory Smite.

Just got done a Kin lowman with a good MNK, mastered with godhands, only had idris geo for support. I was NIN, used 2 trusts, and pocket whm as well. Though I was tanking, and some damage was lost from healing Kin, he parsed 58%, I parsed 44%. his wsavg was 19500 (35s), mine 15500(37). I'm a pretty good NIN, but he hit 28k-30k+ several times, and didnt have any songs or rolls (Koru used Dia3, though and we had BoG Frailty + Haste). I mixed in a few Shuns and Retsu/etc (wasn't spamming Ten exclusively, and using JAs for hate etc).

So if you're hitting 24k with max buffs, something is wrong. He used Raging Fists the entire time, which may have accounted for the difference, but with max buffs, that's still very low. Perhaps the parse would have been very close if I was doing full DPS mode/not healing him for ws dmg. The point I was making is MNK is very close to NIN in "content that matters" (stuff where you can't exploit Blade: Hybrid). I'm not going to exaggerate and claim it's an amazing job at all, because that's a rarity. The MNK had exceptional gear in every slot, even in full hybrid, so he wasn't lacking anywhere for dps. But with work, MNK is not nearly as horrible as some of you like to claim. Needs work, yes. Bottom of the barrel? Not quite...
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-07-31 01:54:10
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Here's the important part of that post, as I always make clear. A good player is good on anything.

I would bet, had he been the Nin, (or a nin) his damage would've been higher.

Player:Player comparisons, mean nothing

A good player, playing a well geared Monk, is going to be better than a lazy/mediocre perfectly geared (anything).
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-07-31 01:55:56
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MNK is actually decent for Kin since Chi Blast and their SB helps reduce TP spam meaning you get to not be turned as much. You can also abuse Boost whilst turned for some extra leet numbers.
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-07-31 07:20:52
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i suppose the fear is puppet master, if they increase h2h WSs directly, that auto buffs puppetmaster, their WSes not only have the potentual of monk power from a single gear change, they also have the power of ther pet WS from another gear change
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-07-31 07:34:17
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perhaps give monk crit attack boost trait and make it the highest teir, and upgrade smite trait to the highest teir too? that would be a boost of 14% increase for normal attacks and WSes, plus a futher 15% for crits and crit WSes.

I'm pretty sure that will increase monks dmg substantually while making asectic fury and victory smite more relevent, plus all WSes with be more powerful in general.

that will also make impetus a ton more stronger too even if it resets
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-07-31 07:43:06
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there, submited on offical forum http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/54283-monk-traits-increase.-easy-solution?p=608868#post608868
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-07-31 08:02:33
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Your naive optimism is heartwarming, Horu
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-07-31 08:06:46
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Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
MNK is actually decent for Kin since Chi Blast and their SB helps reduce TP spam meaning you get to not be turned as much. You can also abuse Boost whilst turned for some extra leet numbers.


Idk, I feel like Kin’s gonna spam when touched whether you like it or not. But it is a good concept. It’s also cool that MNK can spam Shijin without fear of accidental SC... Accidentally closed a Radiance on it, healing it for 99k... I put that weapon away promptly lol
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-07-31 08:24:09
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Your naive optimism is heartwarming, Horu

I am naive, but i atleast know SE is gonna ignore my suggestion, but i'v said what i wanted to say, so i'm happy
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-31 08:25:07
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He's not. Kin is manageable with Monk, probably better with two for rotating penance.

Last night, Between a Ninja and Monk, his tp use was significantly less. The only real uptick was under 25%, but with two high subtle blow users, this is manageable, especially if the Ninja is making use of migawari and the Monk is using full hybrid kendatsuba HQ set. I've done kin with standard setups before and he tps every single round of melee attacks/WS. Was able to sneak 2-3 we in before he used a move.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-07-31 10:14:46
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I would say that kin is one fight where MNK is the superior DD. Back to back weapon skills slows down the fight. I also wouldn't rate ninja as a high subtle ***. Any melee can cap SB1 without giving up too much assuming you're getting auspice. You can't land Yurin on anything noteworthy and you have no other source of SB II. Lower delay weapons require more strikes to reach 1000 TP too.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-31 11:59:21
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Ninja gets 27% sublow base before merits. 10 from Yurin, 8 from ochu and adhemar+1 hat caps subtle blow on ninja with zero modifications to gear. No job is matching Monk because they can wear two pieces of sb2, but ninja is about as close as it gets to them.
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By Asura.Topace 2018-07-31 13:24:43
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What's the cap on Subtle Blow/II? 50/50?
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-07-31 13:27:10
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There is only a max of 3 pieces you can wear with it, so 25 (currently)
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-31 13:39:11
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Presumably it's 50/50.
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-08-01 01:06:13
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I'm curious, i know there was alot of subtle blow testing for subtle blow 1, but was there much testing for the subtle blow from JP points? is that subtle blow 1 or 2?
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-08-01 04:45:10
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Ninja gets 27% sublow base before merits. 10 from Yurin, 8 from ochu and adhemar+1 hat caps subtle blow on ninja with zero modifications to gear. No job is matching Monk because they can wear two pieces of sb2, but ninja is about as close as it gets to them.

You're correct that MNK is easily best for SB (SB+50, SB II +25), not to mention what Penance brings to the table for slowing mob TP gain.

NIN *might* be second, but it's not as clear cut as you say. There are lots of ways to easily hit SB+50 cap on good NIN TP sets (especially with Adhemar head and all Kendatsuba pieces granting good SB numbers), but the problem there is that NIN gets no SBII gear at all so you're stuck at 50. Personally, I normally exceed the cap in normal TP gear (without even casting Myoshu, needing Auspice, or offhanding an Ochu) from: +27 trait /+5 merits / +8 Adhe+1 or Ken+1 head / +12 Ken+1 body

They really ought to make Myoshu: Ichi exceed the cap (or just make a Ni version spell that gives Subtle Blow II), if only to make the spell worth bothering to cast for those who cap without it. Myoshu is sort of like MNK gifts (which I'm fairly sure are just normal Subtle Blow and subject to the +50 cap) in that they are both often useless because you're already capped.

NIN can also potentially provide the party some Penance-like TP inhibition from Yurin... if that lands (most high end mobs will resist)

PUP could arguably be second place, since they can potentially hit Subtle Blow +70, only 5 behind MNK. PUP is on two of the three MNK SBII pieces: Moonbow Belt +1 (SBII+15), Niq Ring (SBII+5), just lacking the Sherida Earring. However, you'd need to hit the normal SB+50 cap without any main job traits; realistically that probably means Auspice w/ WHM empy feet (+25), Herc Hands/Feet (+11), maybe Dignitary's Earring (+5), and subjob /NIN (+15) or /DNC (+10).

There are also complications in that:
(a) automaton also feeds TP if using any meleeing frame
(b) you're likely giving up an otherwise better subjob in /WAR
(c) requires a real WHM who will cast Auspice

DNC might be also be able to consistently hit SB+55 in fairly normal TP sets. 20 from trait, so easily able to cap with Auspice and pretty much any other piece of SB gear. Gets one SBII piece with Sherida earring.

DRG or SAM can also potentially hit SB+70/SB+65. However, that would be quite difficult for them since it would require Dagon Breastplate for SBII+10 (in addition, both get Niq Ring SBII+5, and DRG gets Sherida SBII+5). Would also require the use of a lot of non-optimal TP gear, even if you're getting Auspice. And like PUP, as a pet job, DRG's wyvern adds some TP feed.
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By Ruaumoko 2018-08-01 06:22:36
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NIN and MNK have resulted in easily the fastest, easiest and safest Kin and Kyou runs I've done for some time.

I wholly endorse it.

Keen to try it on other content.
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-08-01 07:09:17
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Have a sch in your monk+ninja party and have the sch sub dark knight? have monk and ninja darkness SC and sch absorb tp? or perhaps a smn and cait sith mewing lullaby tp reduction? or blue mage and feather tickle
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