The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By SimonSes 2020-04-30 04:37:14
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Cerberus.Bongsolo said: »
Is this to the extent that in dose x4 hit's or is deals quadruple damage on one hit?

4hits with 1/3.5/6.5 fTP on fir hit. WSD importance raising with higher TP. Multi-attack importance going down with higher TP. Acc is important.

Your set is good, but no idea why would you go with 20VIT/10STR on cape instead of 30VIT. R15 Sailfi and Ioskeha +1 are very close and which one wins slightly is a matter of what you need more acc or att.
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By Cerberus.Bongsolo 2020-04-30 04:51:06
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That'
SimonSes said: »
Cerberus.Bongsolo said: »
Is this to the extent that in dose x4 hit's or is deals quadruple damage on one hit?

4hits with 1/3.5/6.5 fTP on fir hit. WSD importance raising with higher TP. Multi-attack importance going down with higher TP. Acc is important.

Your set is good, but no idea why would you go with 20VIT/10STR on cape instead of 30VIT. R15 Sailfi and Ioskeha +1 are very close and which one wins slightly is a matter of what you need more acc or att.
That's what I question, back was 30str 10%DA but i changed it since chango came faster then expected. On wave2 dynamis my damage went to ya. Dont think brd or cor tried to help other but focus there self. I w2 ate sushi and bard(new brd) went march mach mad. But cor went hunter roll zzz and sam.

Seems acc matters valor gear then, unless acc capped.
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By Cerberus.Bongsolo 2020-04-30 05:00:02
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Here's my tp sets I favored the 2nd set since only had rdm heal in my pt. After the 2nd time i went down i swapped to 2nd set outside of nm's.
Code
 ammo="Ginsen",
    head="Flam. Zucchetto +2",
    body={ name="Valorous Mail", augments={'"Dbl.Atk."+5','DEX+1','Accuracy+15','Attack+14',}},
    hands="Sulev. Gauntlets +2",
    legs="Pumm. Cuisses +3",
    feet="Pumm. calligae +3",
    neck="War. Beads +1",
    waist="Ioskeha Belt +1",
    left_ear="Cessance Earring",
    right_ear="Brutal Earring",
    left_ring="Flamma Ring",
    right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','DEX+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},

Code
ammo="Ginsen",
    head="Hjarrandi Helm",
    body="Hjarrandi Breast.",
    hands="Sulev. Gauntlets +2",
    legs="Pumm. Cuisses +3",
    feet="Pumm. calligae +3",
    neck={ name="War. Beads +1", augments={'Path: A',}},
    waist="Tempus Fugit",
    left_ear="Cessance Earring",
    right_ear="Brutal Earring",
    left_ring="Defending Ring",
    right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','DEX+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},


Currently saving for +2neck. Need ambu reset to make back 30vit/feet+2, need omen card to +3 body.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-30 05:18:45
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Sounds like you have more problems with your support than sets tbh.
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By Lili 2020-04-30 07:30:17
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Cerberus.Bongsolo said: »
Trying to see why Upheaval is so random.

Because it's 4 hits, and hits can miss or double/triple/quadruple attack can proc, so effectively it's 1-8 hits, with an average of ~5.something with current WSD heavy sets.

Your sets are good for most other content, but war really doesn't do too well in Dynamis without perfect buffs, unless you make high accuracy WS sets, which you should.

Oh, and forget about being able to hit anything while weakened anyway.

SimonSes said: »
Sounds like you have more problems with your support than sets tbh.

I second this.
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By malakef 2020-04-30 07:43:32
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Because of the statue crusher campaign I’m sure you had sub par support with people in random jobs they wanted shards for. Accuracy normally shouldn’t be an issue on wave 2 as we normally don’t have anything giving accuracy other than honor march until wave 3. I bet you just had crap attack which will plummet your damage on wave 2 versus 1.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-04-30 09:08:38
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I haven't tried it yet since just finishing Farsha, but I want to go warrior and do cloudsplitter with magic buffs/debuffs.

Tends to fit our strategy more with leads/trueflights anyway.
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By Cerberus.Bongsolo 2020-05-05 14:56:32
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Anyone have a working fighter's roll/fencer lua?
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2020-05-07 00:42:01
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Is there ever any reason to use Full Break over Weapon/Armor Break? I assume on monsters you want to stack enfeebles effects.
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By Asura.Nuance 2020-05-07 02:40:52
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Less wasted TP on weak WS
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By Asura.Hiraishinsenna 2020-05-07 03:45:10
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Full break prevents defense boost on NMs in dyna-sandy and bastok to go off
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-05-07 07:10:45
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Cerberus.Dekar said: »
Is there ever any reason to use Full Break over Weapon/Armor Break? I assume on monsters you want to stack enfeebles effects.

Well it's half the effect of the rest so it would depend on your target and situation. FB also opens for a decent multi-step double light while AB / WB don't. All of these are only important if your under-buffed or Geomancy is being nerfed.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-05-07 07:29:37
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Does anyone have experience tanking with something like below? How does the shield perform? Sword or axe main hand.

ItemSet 372894

I'm considering ioskehaHQ. would be 23% haste at that point


Thanks in advance!
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By Bismarck.Norminator 2020-05-07 09:01:36
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Got a question regarding Resolution ws gear set, I'm sure someone did the testing already but i can't find it. Is Fotia belt and neck are still BIS or neck+2 and safti+1 augmented are better ?
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By Asura.Crowned 2020-05-07 09:27:07
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Bismarck.Norminator said: »
Got a question regarding Resolution ws gear set, I'm sure someone did the testing already but i can't find it. Is Fotia belt and neck are still BIS or neck+2 and safti+1 augmented are better ?
This has been answered like 3 times in the past 2 pages, both fotia pieces are still the best options for resolution
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By Spaitin 2020-05-09 17:39:11
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Bismarck.Norminator said: »
I'm sure someone did the testing already but i can't find it.
Did your research include going back one page?
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-05-10 03:10:43
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Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Does anyone have experience tanking with something like below? How does the shield perform? Sword or axe main hand.

ItemSet 372894

I'm considering ioskehaHQ. would be 23% haste at that point


Thanks in advance!

it's very good at cutting down incoming damage, you should be sitting around 500+ Shield Skill or higher. Im not in game at the moment but my turtle set puts me at 524 (Souveran stuff)


The combined block rate between Adapa Shield and Hands+3 is nothing to sneeze at regarding damage mitigation.

Adapa Shield is a size 3 shield. Which means it has a 50% damage reduction on blocks, and a 45% base proc rate.

If you are /NIN you will actually benefit from Shield Mastery 3 preventing interuptions if you are using shadows to cut down on additional damage coming your way.

You will also have Shield Defense Bonus 3, which gives a 6% damage reduction when blocking with a shield.

The Icing on the cake is Reprisal, when it procs it makes your block rate even more insane. Don't count on it to proc, but be thankful when it does.

Reprisal increases block rate by 50% of your current block rate.
Current block rate × 1.5

I've tanked quite a few things on Warrior, it greatly increases your odds of survival and it is awesome for fighting Wave 3 monsters that tend to one shot DD even in capped -DT gear.
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By Asura.Skorn 2020-05-13 19:01:36
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Spaitin said: »
i personally do not recommend bravura at all anymore. It is a money pit that can be replaced with better options. when the hjarrandi gear came out we did a lot of testing on it. We compared this
ItemSet 367131
.

Is this kinda considered the best 'Hybrid' set? I tried going back several pages and this is the best i saw.
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By Bahamut.Brake 2020-05-13 19:34:58
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Best? Not in my opinion. Off the bat I'd swap hands to volte. But this is still a very strong set and something to shoot for.
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By Asura.Crowned 2020-05-13 20:45:03
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Asura.Skorn said: »
Spaitin said: »
i personally do not recommend bravura at all anymore. It is a money pit that can be replaced with better options. when the hjarrandi gear came out we did a lot of testing on it. We compared this
ItemSet 367131
.

Is this kinda considered the best 'Hybrid' set? I tried going back several pages and this is the best i saw.

ItemSet 371482

This is what I would consider my best hybrid set. Obviously it requires two volte pieces, body being quite rare. Set has 100% DA (101%, actually) and capped pdt and mdt, as well as gear haste. Spaitin's set is good if you lack the volte body/pieces.
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By Shiva.Applesmash 2020-05-13 21:16:06
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Here is what I like using:

ItemSet 373054

37PDT
100 DA
0 Volte pieces, while I do have head and legs I feel they're not the best sidegrade.
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By Spaitin 2020-05-14 07:24:10
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My set assumes sam/fighters roll (3 hit build with 100 da).all of these sets are very good. I find volte to be meh unless you use all of it.mev needs to be stacked very high to get good results. I only use full volte or no volte.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-05-14 10:14:16
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I also use this set.

ItemSet 360783

I always roll with sam/fighters and it works very well.
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By Taint 2020-05-14 10:27:30
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Spaitin said: »
My set assumes sam/fighters roll (3 hit build with 100 da).all of these sets are very good. I find volte to be meh unless you use all of it.mev needs to be stacked very high to get good results.


There is nothing Meh about Volte set...
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-05-14 10:43:45
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Taint said: »
Spaitin said: »
My set assumes sam/fighters roll (3 hit build with 100 da).all of these sets are very good. I find volte to be meh unless you use all of it.mev needs to be stacked very high to get good results.


There is nothing Meh about Volte set...


I wish it were easier to obtain. Doesn't drop often.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-05-14 11:38:20
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Does anyone have experience tanking with something like below? How does the shield perform? Sword or axe main hand.

ItemSet 372894

I'm considering ioskehaHQ. would be 23% haste at that point


Thanks in advance!

it's very good at cutting down incoming damage, you should be sitting around 500+ Shield Skill or higher. Im not in game at the moment but my turtle set puts me at 524 (Souveran stuff)


The combined block rate between Adapa Shield and Hands+3 is nothing to sneeze at regarding damage mitigation.

Adapa Shield is a size 3 shield. Which means it has a 50% damage reduction on blocks, and a 45% base proc rate.

If you are /NIN you will actually benefit from Shield Mastery 3 preventing interuptions if you are using shadows to cut down on additional damage coming your way.

You will also have Shield Defense Bonus 3, which gives a 6% damage reduction when blocking with a shield.

The Icing on the cake is Reprisal, when it procs it makes your block rate even more insane. Don't count on it to proc, but be thankful when it does.

Reprisal increases block rate by 50% of your current block rate.
Current block rate × 1.5

I've tanked quite a few things on Warrior, it greatly increases your odds of survival and it is awesome for fighting Wave 3 monsters that tend to one shot DD even in capped -DT gear.

That’s a nice tank set, the only thing I would change is the hands to souveran +1 for the shield skill instead. Like skarqind said, that shield is pretty much the best tank shield war gets and I have used it to main tank lower lvl reisenjasima NMs with good results. Martel put together an amazing explanation of shield blocking in the pld forums like a year or so ago, I’ll try to find it later as I am at work right now.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-05-14 12:24:46
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This is from the pld forums awhile back but the info is useful for war as well.

Thx again to Martel for putting this info together.


Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Shield Block mechanics - Blocking for Blockheads

Shield blocks reduce physical dmg taken, obviously. But what determines how often you block? Or how much damage is reduced?

Block rates - Now with 0.215 apr!

Block rate factors.
-Player shield skill.
-Attacker combat skill
-Shield size.

These three factors determine your base block rate versus an enemy. That's it. Anything else has nothing to do with it. (I was hella surprised when I figured out player level didn't matter.)

There are two more ways to adjust block rate from the base. These are
-Block chance+ gear.
-JA/Spell modifiers(Reprisal/Palisade)

While we know the factors involved we don't really have a solid block rate formula. There's been a lot of testing and mathing, but we still don't have a complete model.

What we do know is that shield skill and attacker combat skill are compared, and then converted to blockrate. This value, whether positive or negative is used to adjust the base block rate derived from the shield size.

Shield size is a value found only in the DATs for items. Nothing in game actually references the numbers directly.

Size 1 are bucklers.
Size 2. Round shields.
Size 3. Kite shields.
Size 4. Tower shields

Sizes 5 and 6 are rather unique. There are only 2 size 5 shields and one size 6.

We don't know a lot about the base block rates of the various shield sizes. It very difficult to tell the effects of the base rate from the effects of your shield skill.

The rumors go, Sizes 1 through 4. 1 having the highest block rate(of these 4 sizes!) and 4 having the lowest. Their damage reduction works in reverse, with size 1 having the lowest and 4 the highest(again, of these 4 sizes.)

Size 3 was generally considered the ideal balance of block rate and dmg reduction, before the introduction of Aegis. This still sorta holds when looking at new shields.

Sizes 5 and 6 don't play along with the system 1~4 seem to use.

Size 5 (Aegis/Srivatsa) has 5% more base block rate and base block damage reduction than a size 3 shield.

Size 6 (Ochain only)has 10% lower dmg reduction than a size 3(40% base) but has massively higher base block rate. Size 6 has about a 65 block rate advantage over size 3.

Block chance+ gear
Not too much to say here. +1 block chance adds +1% block rate.
It is notable how this gear interacts with Reprisal though. I'll go over this in the Reprisal section though.

Reprisal
Our dear friend reprisal. Making shields so much more fun.

Reprisal modifies your current block rate by * 1.5, or * 3.0 with Priwen(effect bonus is lost if priwen is removed)

It's important to note that because Reprisal modifies your current block rate the gains from Reprisal can be large or pitiful, depending on your current block rate. If you have a 5% block rate, reprisal is only going to add 2.5 block rate for 7.5 total.

The effects of reprisal appear to be calculated Before Block+ gear is added. Meaning Block+ gear doesn't get the *1.5 modifier when reprisal is up. So block+ gear loses about 50% effectiveness compared to what we'd previously thought. Sucks. This makes it pretty clear that Block+ gear is factored in at the end of the Block formula. This also means that Skill+ gear is a bit more attractive when trying to raise block rate. As it does benefit from reprisal.

Palisade
Palisade adds +30% block rate. With maxed JP it adds +50%. It's huge. And this bonus does benefit from reprisal. So using Max JP Palisade with reprisal up would be 75% block rate gain. That being said it's largely mitigated by the fact that you can only have it up 20% of the time.

I'm not certain how Palisade interacts with the block floor. You may have to "catch up" to the floor if negative.

Evaluating the worth of shield skill+
To compare shield skill to other options, we need to know how much block rate you get from x skill. Fortunately, we know a way to figure this out through the testing and math skills of many people.

Basically, shield skill *0.215 = block gains. This seems to be pretty accurate for the 400+ skill range.

Note that this is only for figuring out the +/- block rate from your current rate. So, if you added +40 shield skill then,

40*0.215=8.6

You'd gain 8.6% blockrate. Using this you can compare skill+ to block+ gear. Although make sure to factor in reprisal in favor of the skill+ if you do.

Block cap and floor

Block Cap. If there is one, it's not the old rumored 65%.

During early ilvl stages when SE first added shield skill+ to shields, Killedar had +215 skill. I tested block rates on the the test server and got block rates far higher than 65% with a size 3 shield. Said test post. This is one of the better examples to date of blockrate passing 65% without the use of reprisal or palisade.

The only reason I don't flat out say there isn't a block rate cap at all is because Priwen+Reprisal doesn't cap, even when it should, mathematically speaking. It can push into the upper 95~% block rates, but I couldn't actually get it to cap. This could be a sort of soft cap to reprisal effectiveness, but that'd be very difficult to pin down.

Ochain, of course, can cap out at 100% block rate.

The Blockfloor - Where Aegis lives -.-;

Block rate floors at 5%. While the skill difference between you and the attacker can put you lower than that(call it negative calculated block rate), the observed block rate will still be 5%.

This is important because in order to get off the floor, you have to "catch up" to that 5% before you can raise block rate above it. This is much like acc/eva mechanics. Frankly, this sucks.

I think that about covers Block Rate related factors.

Block Damage Reduction
So, what determines how much damage is reduced when blocking?

There are only 3 factors for this. And two of the three are on the shield itself.

-Shield Size
-The Def stat on the shield
-the Shield Defense bonus trait

Each shield size has a set value for damage reduction. I'll go over the ones I have values for, and comment on the rest.

Sizes 1 and 2 are unknown. We just know they reduce significantly less dmg than a size 3. To the point that it's difficult to tell blocked hit apart from unblocked.

Size 4. I might have a sample for this somewhere. It's assumed to reduce more than size 3 at the cost of a lower block rate.

Base Block damage reduction,
Size 3: 50%
Size 5: 55%
Size 6: 40%

Once you have your base, then we need to account for the defense on the shield.

Half of the DEF stat on the shield is added to block damage reduction(henceforth BDR). So for say, Aegis.

40 DEF /2 = 20.
So 55% base +20 = 75% Block dmg reduction.

The final step is to account for any Shield defense bonus traits of gear.

A 99 PLD has Shield Defense Bonus III. Which is +6 to BDR

So simply add the SDB value to the current BDR

75=6=81. So 81% dmg reduction upon blocking. This is the value that any 99 PLD would have when blocking with Aegis.

If any SDB gear is used, just add the gear value to the BDR.

A few useful BDR values. and their breakdowns

Ochain: 66% = 40+(40/2)+6
Aegis: 81% = 55+(40/2)+6
Priwen: 88% = 50+(65/2)+6 *
Srivatsa: 98% = 55+(75/2)+6 **

*This would be 88.5%, but I've always floored the decimal.
I don't actually know if this is how SE calculates it, but well, you try measuring .5% dmg reduction and see if you can tell which it's using.
**would be 98.5, but see *.

Shield miscellany

Other misc. shield stuffs.

Shield mastery
The BG wiki page for this pretty much covers things... cept one note.

Old shield mastery gear, Like say, a Kaiser Schaller with a +3 shield mastery augment isn't going to give 3 extra TP like the page implies. It adds +30 TP. This is a holdover from when the TP scale was out of 300, and decimal values weren't visible. They never updated the item descriptions for these augments.


Physical WS and their additional effect vs shields
Not surprisingly, physical weaponskills can be blocked with a shield. But hey, some people don't know this stuff. And your character doesn't do a block animation when you block a weaponskill.

For multi-hit WS each hit does a block check individually.

Now for the neat part. Many WS have really obnoxious additional effects. If you block every hit of a WS, it completely prevents the additional effect. Depending on the status in question, this can be pretty damn valuable. Sadly this only applies to WS, so don't expect it to help you with nasty en-effects...

Unless those en-effects are attached to some of the rare melee type that are counted as WS. Basically anything with AoE melee hits count as WS. So do certain special melee like Gabbrath's 3 hit melee bite, iirc.

Things like
-Iron Giants(all melee. Can prevent Stun and amnesia. Super useful.)
-Gabbrath (can prevent def- and Stun. Does not block knockback)


ok, that list was shorty than I expected, but I suspect I'm forgetting some. Anyway, neat mechanic.

Shields and Ranged attacks
Ranged attacks. They're physical dmg. PDT works on them. Throughout history one of the primary uses of shields was to block projectiles.

But not in FFXI! Ranged attacks cannot be blocked with a shield in this game.

Ever notice that EES hurts no matter what shield you used? This is why. It's really, really dumb, but important to know.

That's about all that's coming to mind at the moment.
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By Lili 2020-05-14 12:25:21
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Shiva.Eightball said: »

That’s a nice tank set, the only thing I would change is the hands to souveran +1 for the shield skill instead. Like skarqind said, that shield is pretty much the best tank shield war gets and I have used it to main tank lower lvl reisenjasima NMs with good results. Martel put together an amazing explanation of shield blocking in the pld forums like a year or so ago, I’ll try to find it later as I am at work right now.

I was recently talking just with Martel precisely about that shield. It turns out that block rate+ is much superior to Shield skill for bloking, because the former is not subject to reduction while the latter is. So even when block rate is floored on high level mobs, we still get 40% block (5 floor + 20 from shield + 15 from hands) minimum, otherwise the minimum becomes a meager 25%.

EDIT: note that the above post is about PLD. Paladins get negligible amounts of block rate+ in their gear (+3 here, +2 there), we get a whopping +15 all at once, and we have much lower Shield skill... so Agoge hands win there.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-05-14 13:13:09
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That’s a good point, but the main thing I don’t like about those gloves is the requirement of defender on to get it, although I suppose it’s not that bad as you could do defender and berserk and still do decent dmg while tanking.
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