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Ballista Tournament
 Fenrir.Niniann
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-08 00:33:25
PvP on XI can be fun, but if you think it's balanced idk. Much better games to be playing if you want to PvP. :x
Edit: Anyway, my point is it was rather silly of you to say people who only do PvE on a game that was designed with only PvE in mind, suck at XI.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:38:42
Even WoW is designed with PvE in mind.
I think its silly for people to be half good at a game, and claim to be good at it.
When everyone whines about Abyssea etc being so easy.
The system has more depth than you'd ever realize, but its easier for you to ignore that and hide your head in the sand.
Ragnarok.Martel
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2931
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 00:39:38
I'm actually not sure how to calculate the accuracy of a sample based on its size. I'm not really mathematically inclined.
For shield block rate tests I usually do about 3k hits. But I forget what the confidence range for that size was.
Now, 3k hits, is one thing. 3k casts, in a timed area is clearly unreasonable.
I think what I'd do, is do as many casts as I can get in per reservation, and make that my basic sample size. Unless someone with better math skill can say how many casts we need for a reasonable lvl of accuracy.
Also, I'd suggest testing something with a short recast like silence. And since you don't wanna waste time waiting for it to wear off when it lands, you'll either need a ton of echo drops, or a friend to silena spam the one being silenced. (I don't think you can have the person enfeebing do it can you? can ppl on opposing ballista teams cure each other?)
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:41:03
I'm actually not sure how to calculate the accuracy of a sample based on its size. I'm not really mathematically inclined.
For shield block rate tests I usually do about 3k hits. But I forget what the confidence range for that size was.
Now, 3k hits, is one thing. 3k casts, in a timed area is clearly unreasonable.
I think what I'd do, is do as many casts as I can get in per reservation, and make that my basic sample size. Unless someone with better math skill can say how many casts we need for a reasonable lvl of accuracy.
Also, I'd suggest testing something with a short recast like silence. And since you don't wanna waste time waiting for it to wear off when it lands, you'll either need a ton of echo drops, or a friend to silena spam the one being silenced. (I don't think you can have the person enfeebing do it can you? can ppl on opposing ballista teams cure each other?)
I was thinking a thousand?
Also no they can't, and you build resistance with diminishing returns, so its even harder to test.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 00:41:20
WoW and RIFT are designed for both PvP and PvE, they have development hours put into both and every patch and most hotfixes cater to both, including the balance tweaks that classes need and that FFXI hasn't gotten since Ballista/Brenner first came out.
Trying to say that FFXI's PvP is to be considered as anything more than a mild novelty that you do when you're bored is silly.
People who don't do PvE suck.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:43:54
Valefor.Prothescar said: »WoW and RIFT are designed for both PvP and PvE, they have development hours put into both and every patch and most hotfixes cater to both, including the balance tweaks that classes need and that FFXI hasn't gotten since Ballista/Brenner first came out.
Trying to say that FFXI's PvP is to be considered as anything more than a mild novelty that you do when you're bored is silly.
People who don't do PvE suck.
As soon as Dreadspikes came out the nerfed the hell out of that.
They nerfed Sekkanoki numerous times making the accuracy terrible in there, and recently around a two years ago Excalibur had its en-effect drastically shortened.
Maybe its not the same quantity but there are still fixes here and there.
And there have been ninja updates here and there, because we all know that every change in the game is always put into the notes!
And speaking of PvE go get a relic.
Ragnarok.Martel
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2931
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 00:45:16
Also no they can't, and you build resistance with diminishing returns, so its even harder to test. Wait, you mean players build resistance to statuses like NMs do while in ballista? That'd make testing duration reduction near impossible.
Fenrir.Niniann
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-08 00:45:19
Even WoW is designed with PvE in mind.
I think its silly for people to be half good at a game, and claim to be good at it.
When everyone whines about Abyssea etc being so easy.
WoW was designed with both in mind.
If PvP were designed in a way that was much better than the current system, sure. But as it stands now if you're an Arma COR or what have you, you pretty much destroy everyone. Anyway, I think it's silly that you're judging people's 'worth' based on content that wasn't even implemented that well. Yes it's fun, but it doesn't make you any better/worse of a player by being good at it. Sure you get a little more bragging rights because you can say, "hey I can rape you with wildfire"... but anyone can do that. Some jobs take more skill than others, but something something bad game design etc.
Yes Abyssea is stupidly easy. Yes PvP is more difficult because you don't just auto-attack and hit your WS macro, or play Pokemon while healing... pretty much everything ever is. Voidwatch requires some skill organization, but it's not as difficult as I'd like it to be. /shrug
Kinda rambling, but PvP wasn't designed well, lack of job balance, etc.
I should also mention that Ballista doesn't happen on 99% of the servers, and fighting on the shoreline in Puronogo feels silly.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 00:45:24
Valefor.Prothescar said: »WoW and RIFT are designed for both PvP and PvE, they have development hours put into both and every patch and most hotfixes cater to both, including the balance tweaks that classes need and that FFXI hasn't gotten since Ballista/Brenner first came out.
Trying to say that FFXI's PvP is to be considered as anything more than a mild novelty that you do when you're bored is silly.
People who don't do PvE suck.
As soon as Dreadspikes came out the nerfed the hell out of that.
And there have been ninja updates here and there, because we all know that every change in the game is always put into the notes!
People who don't do PvP suck.
And speaking of PvE go get a relic.
Someone's full of mayad because they can't play real PvP games :C
There's a reason people don't play PvP in FFXI: It sucks.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 525
By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-11-08 00:45:56
ITT: 50% of ffxi is PvE 50% of ffxi is PvP
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:45:57
Also no they can't, and you build resistance with diminishing returns, so its even harder to test. Wait, you mean players build resistance to statuses like NMs do while in ballista? That'd make testing duration reduction near impossible.
Exactly, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
It makes it so chain CC'ing becomes impossible with resist setups.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:46:14
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »ITT: 50% of ffxi is PvE 50% of ffxi is PvP
In the wrong thread cowboy.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:47:35
Even WoW is designed with PvE in mind.
I think its silly for people to be half good at a game, and claim to be good at it.
When everyone whines about Abyssea etc being so easy.
WoW was designed with both in mind.
If PvP were designed in a way that was much better than the current system, sure. But as it stands now if you're an Arma COR or what have you, you pretty much destroy everyone. Anyway, I think it's silly that you're judging people's 'worth' based on content that wasn't even implemented that well. Yes it's fun, but it doesn't make you any better/worse of a player by being good at it. Sure you get a little more bragging rights because you can say, "hey I can rape you with wildfire"... but anyone can do that. Some jobs take more skill than others, but something something bad game design etc.
Yes Abyssea is stupidly easy. Yes PvP is more difficult because you don't just auto-attack and hit your WS macro, or play Pokemon while healing... pretty much everything ever is. Voidwatch requires some skill organization, but it's not as difficult as I'd like it to be. /shrug
Kinda rambling, but PvP wasn't designed well, lack of job balance, etc.
I should also mention that Ballista doesn't happen on 99% of the servers, and fighting on the shoreline in Puronogo feels silly.
If you read the entire post, you'd see the reasoning behind it without both, I find a person to be lackluster.
But on the same token you can just throw bodies at things in PvE and win, where a skilled group of people can low-man and achieve victory under more extreme conditions.
So in the end nothing is really worth bragging about as the systems are all flawed in someway.
My statement simply is, a person who truly aspires to be great, should master and participate in all systems of the game. Even if their job could not claim victory under a hard counter, there would still be merit in pushing their limits.
PS -
I don't get raped with Wildfire, because I'm not terrible.
Fenrir.Niniann
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-08 00:49:44
I don't get raped with Wildfire, because I'm not terrible.
My point was that there's stupid game imbalances, but whatever. I can literally walk into PvP on WHM, stack resist/PDT gear and never die and keep my party alive. Seems a little silly to me.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:50:33
I don't get raped with Wildfire, because I'm not terrible.
My point was that there's stupid game imbalances, but whatever. I can literally walk into PvP on WHM, stack resist/PDT gear and never die and keep my party alive. Seems a little silly to me.
That's very unlikley in a team battle, being focus fired by Apocalypse, Konzen-Ittai, and Sidewinders.
Unless everyone is terrible and doesn't make WHM numero uno.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 00:50:55
Let me break it down for you: when you have to beg people to play with you and offer extensive rewards just to do so, it speaks a lot about the polish and prestige of FFXI PvP.
Fenrir.Niniann
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-08 00:51:25
That's very unlikley in a team battle, being focus fired by Apocalypse, Konzen-Ittai, and Sidewinders.
k
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:52:37
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Let me break it down for you: when you have to beg people to play with you and offer extensive rewards just to do so, it speaks a lot about the polish and prestige of FFXI PvP.
I think your confusing begging for advocating and promoting.
And by extensive you're overestimating how little it is to me.
So all I got from that post is:
I'm better than you.
[+]
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 00:54:11
If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ"
P.S.
Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™
Ragnarok.Martel
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2931
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 00:54:55
Hmm, this brings up another potential issue.
Does the game check resist traits, or magic acc/eva first? Meaning, if you would have resisted the spell anyway, can the trait proc?
If it checks magic acc/eva first(which I would think it would) then as your resistance builds, you'll start wasting casts with resists that fail to check the trait. Reducing the amount of usable data we get for the number of casts. It's kinda like trying to test block rate on mobs that miss alot. It sucks, and takes forever.
If this is the case, then we'd want the enfeebler to have as high skill/acc as possible while the enfeebled used any magic eva-/elemental resistance- gear available.
Or, I suppose you could just kill the enfeebled when ever he starts resisting, right? I'd think that reset it. But better M.acc should give you more casts before you'd have to rest.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:57:08
Valefor.Prothescar said: »If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ"
P.S.
Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™
Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:58:09
Hmm, this brings up another potential issue.
Does the game check resist traits, or magic acc/eva first? Meaning, if you would have resisted the spell anyway, can the trait proc?
If it checks magic acc/eva first(which I would think it would) then as your resistance builds, you'll start wasting casts with resists that fail to check the trait. Reducing the amount of usable data we get for the number of casts. It's kinda like trying to test block rate on mobs that miss alot. It sucks, and takes forever.
If this is the case, then we'd want the enfeebler to have as high skill/acc as possible while the enfeebled used any magic eva-/elemental resistance- gear available.
Or, I suppose you could just kill the enfeebled when ever he starts resisting, right? I'd think that reset it. But better M.acc should give you more casts before you'd have to rest.
From what I see it uses the "Resist Trait" as a type of parry.
With your elemental resistance + your MND having some effect on a natural resist vs a trait resist.
If you naturally resist something you get a different message, when you resist a spell it says:
Resist! Urteil xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 00:58:35
Valefor.Prothescar said: »If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ"
P.S.
Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™
Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple.
If they're good why are they getting hit by any of those besides Sidewinder?
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 00:59:41
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ"
P.S.
Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™
Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple.
If they're good why are they getting hit by any of those besides Sidewinder?
Because you can't move while casting.
Weapon Bash.
Blade Bash.
Shadowbind.
Stun.
Bind.
Sleep II.
Directional Input
/Sprint
Crowd control.
You know, any of those esoteric and incredibly hard to grasp things.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 01:00:59
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ"
P.S.
Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™
Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple.
If they're good why are they getting hit by any of those besides Sidewinder?
Because you can't move while casting.
Weapon Bash.
Blade Bash.
Shadowbind.
Stun.
Bind.
Sleep II.
Crowd control.
You know, any of those esoteric and incredibly hard to grasp things.
Oh yes it is difficult to grasp, mostly the part of you being so adamant about one of the worst and most broken PvP systems I've seen since I played a card game with my 4 year old niece.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 01:02:03
You're cute.
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 01:04:12
Valefor.Prothescar said: »And you're an ***. What's your point?
Hahahaha.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-08 01:04:28
I win. Goodnight
Phoenix.Urteil
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2011-11-08 01:04:43
As much as someone like you can. You did all you possibly could.
Good night.
EVENT OVER, TOURNAMENT 1 CHAMPION: JACKAVERTED
Stay tuned!
I am going to be hosting a 1 v 1 Ballista Tournament! Anyone is welcome to participate as the buy in will be 25,000, in addition to a 500,000g prize I will be furnishing myself.
The first place winner will also receive 50 x single pieces in a currency of their choice.
(Do not worry - as I will not be participating during the official proceedings and will be ineligible for the tournament prize.)
(However I will be up for battle, for anyone that wishes, after the event has finished.)
Anyone and everyone is welcome to join, the more people that turn out the better.
===============================================================
Where: Upper Jueno / Abdhaljs Isle-Purgonorgo
When: 11/5/2011 12:00PST|14:00CST|15:00EST|19:000GMT|
Why: The Champion will recieve 75% of the entry fee + 500,000g + Bronzpiece Or Whiteshell Or 1 Byne x 50!
(The remaining 25% will go to the runner ups.)
The champion will have the opportunity to face me in a special three round showdown after the tournament is concludedfor a chance at an even greater prize!
(Be sure to stop by if you have the conviction: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/26086/pvp-battlefield-judgement-and-comet-scrolls-do-you/)
You aren't wusses are you?! Well most of you are, but here's your chance!
Rules:
Any job combination of any level is allowed to join, I personally suggest a 95 one.
Two hours are prohibited.
There are no items allowed during matches, and food is prohibited.
You are not allowed to change your main job.
However you will be told the main job of your enemy, you must immediately declare a main and sub job in /tell and this cannot be changed.
Both participants will have no knowledge of their opponents sub job selection, only main job.
You will be given time to recover hp/mp between rounds.
Both participants will be in a party, with witnesses to see vitals and discourage shenanigans.
All bouts will consist of two rounds, the first person to two victories is the winner.
TP resets before and between rounds, both participants start each round with 0% TP.
Both participants in a match will begin at their camp, and have two minutes to cast enhancing magic / prepare for the encounter, meet on the beach and begin fighting. Kill on sight.
If you do not make it to the beach and are not actively pursuing your enemy in two minutes you will be disqualified.
All matches will be held on the beach on the north side of the map, kiting is allowed and encouraged for jobs that must make use of it.
Running close enough to the Posten so that your enemy cannot pursue you is an instant loss, and you will be disqualified.
All matches are process of elimination, the brackets and matchups will be decided when everyone is present.
If you do feel that you wish to come send me PM or /tell me in game and show up on the desired day.
=========
Anyone, and everyone, even if you have me blacklisted I will not refuse you. I can not stress enough how little I care about who you are etc.
Feel free to show up and kill each other for money! (And Glory.)
**Notes**
For pet jobs you can go to your Mog House and recover your pet between rounds.
Remember! Utility is golden.
Resist gear is never a bad idea, its a GREAT idea.
/Sprint is there for a reason
Gear swaps penalize you, so use your brain and make an advantageous gear set, unless you're retarded.
If you have /ANY/ questions about PvP or ballista feel free to talk to me, I will be glad to assist you with basic questions about gear swapping, differences to the battle system, etc.
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