Can The Links Be Put Back To FFXIclopedia?

I like the old wiki, and will probably end up using it for a good while, as I normally browse it with adblock/notscripts on and never have any troubles.

Honestly, the only thing I disliked about the old wiki was how utterly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE the search bar was at times....

Besides, if I'm looking up to date information, I'll go to BG.

Yea i'll be sticking with wiki. And my guess is so will ~90% of the player base. The gamerescape jump was just a way to advertise more, and its more then likely gonna die very soon.

It has absolutely zero to do with advertising or making money. We in fact have less ads than Wikia, and no full page background ads or flash nonsense.

You pay wikia nothing now, and have a larger domain then just ffxi.

We never paid Wikia anything in the first place. Wikia hosts wikis for free....

The site founders are paying the bandwidth costs out of their own pocket. If you think that a couple banner ads pay for that, you're mistaken.

Im not sure about that one...so i'll give it to you.

Don't take my word for it. Go over to Wikia and click the "Start a wiki" button.

Fixed width by default is the devil, there are still dozens of pages broken by the forced change to fixed with that have never been corrected. It is simply not a good idea for the information that needs to be presented in such pages as trials.

Well... it's a devil that's taking over the internet apparently. Fixed width is everywhere. That said... It wasn't my choice. I'm just a wiki admin/moderator. I'm not one of the founders.

I will agree on one thing- It's best if you keep the same format from beginning to end, and Wikia's imposing of fixed width when it wasn't before caused a lot of problems. Switching back and forth just creates a huge mess (But in this case, the mess was imposed on us by Wikia when it started making its new skins, both Oasis and Monaco)

Fixed width looks better to me, that said... Not on a Wiki though.

I don't know why people are assuming that there isn't a huge playerbase on widescreen monitors.

Because everyone is still using those huge CRT monitors, didn't you know?

Widescreen monitors aren't quite as prevalent as you might think yet. And certainly not 1080p monitors. Not that many people hook their PC up to a TV, and if they have an old monitor, they tend to keep using it until it breaks. :p

My own monitor is widescreen but it's 1680x1050 max. Also, people dont always maximize their browser windows when they're running high resolutions.

Because the web surfer base doesn't use widescreen monitors/resolutions on average that's why sites are built currently at a 1024 width usually.

That said Wikis should be resize-able with a min width imo.

Fixed width
an interesting link I found.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_resolution_higher.asp

The change is coming to higher res and Quickly, why stay locked in the past with 1280x1024 in mind.. Also the above talked about trail pages is enough to piss me off.

I do have it setup for monopages on both sites. But the default of fixed witdh. Really gets to me.

Also for every page that uses fixed witdh I can find 100 pages that look and are formatted correctly to work on any size say 1024x768 or higher. Without 1/2 the screen being blank. Clearly Fixed width is an issue you can't over look at a problem as people really don't like it.

As for the big screen thing.
1080p is the new standard. TV and display above 21"
Cost of 21" display $180 if that. I paid that 2 years ago.
Cost of a 19" $150

acer 21" 1080p $138 I looked it up
one website.
memoryexpress.com located in the city I live.
(edit correction 105) displays for sale. 70 of which are 1080p.
That's over 1/2 of there displays from 15" to 27"
1080p is the defacto new standard.




This is the biggest issue I heard about on wikia. And you copied it. you didn't have to. It was a choice made. If you want new community support get something that fills the voice. I'm personally really glad to see wiki wikia bg all out there now. In time one of these sites will take over. Just like when wikia 1st came out. Zam lost a lot of normal users to something that was just laid out better. Right now you have a copy of something that is good not great. Fix it make it better and people will come. But in the mean time don't get upset that people are jumping ship. It doesn't work like that. You need something, something that makes it better. Something you don't have yet..

Regardless of your feelings on the matter, there were and are certain pages that A) Were designed for full-width and B) Are now horribly broken because of the switch. Furthermore, certain already existing information, again, such as trials, cannot be formatted to an acceptable degree in fixed width. If this were not the case, it would be one thing. But such is how the situation exists at present.

I honestly don't think that Gamerescape will replace the old wiki for a significant portion of its users. It's late in the game's lifespan, and everyone's used to using the old one by now. There needs to be significant incentive to move, and most users aren't going to get that incentive from minor aesthetics/usability issues (especially ones that don't affect many users, as Tahn pointed out). It doesn't help that Gamerescape started out with broken links and continues to have other issues, which discourages new users. For example, if I look up Coin of Ardor on Gamerescape it takes me to a search page, whereas I go straight to the item page on wiki. The forums don't have a searchbar for the wiki yet. Little things like that.

Gamerescape has to establish a niche for itself to draw in users and maintain long-term use. The old wiki is obviously the prime contender, holding the largest compilation of FFXI information available in a wiki-style format. BG Wiki is undergoing a revitalization effort that will hopefully put it foremost among the wikis for information on game mechanics, occupying much the same niche as the Advanced forums do now and attracting the same userbase (dramallamas aside). FFXIAH has its own database after a fashion. Gamerescape as far as I can tell offers nothing unique, nothing more comprehensive as a wiki. It's not significantly more user-friendly either. Simply saying "hey, we're moving over here now" won't be enough, and unless a niche is established quickly it's very unlikely the Gamerescape FFXI wiki will gain a significant editing population. Having failed to put its best foot forward on launch, I'm unsure of how well it will be able to succeed regardless.

If instead of repeating the same stuff, you listed some pages that don't look right anymore because of the fixed width, maybe I could do something about it. I don't have the entire database memorized in my head.

Well said.

Now ask the question of who w3school visitors are, since w3 schools is a site based on teaching web design standards (w3c standards, not related to the schools), how many non techy people do you think would surf w3schools instead of regular web surfers :)

Notice also that 1280x1024 is still the most common resolution in that list.

well after reading all this. im figuring if people think about it the ffxiwiki prob looked alot like the gamerscape when it started though im assuming the gamerscape has a much larger information base at start up then ffwiki since it has the old data base to draw on. As far as people migrating to new site i been around since near beginning of game in US when a level 75 was rare let alone a advance job or having more then one 75 job. I've watched one after another info site come and go people useing killingifrit , Somepage( wonder how many even remember that one), alla to bluegartre and wiki among several others mixed in there. Same will prob be able to be said of ffwiki to the new site giving time as the information builds and the site is improved as time goes on. The old site ffwiki has been kinda dieing off for a while now anyways with less info being added and lot out date info cloging it up or just wrong information from recent posters. Put simply just got be patient and let things transition naturally to the new site being used instead jumping on peeps to go use it now. I will amit the hacking scares years back sped up the move from somepage and some the others to wiki and such but just give it time and work on improving site over all and it will happen again.

Sorry if this a bit rambling very tired (long day) but i think the general idea gets across. Most likely people will use wiki main first and back up checking the new site then will start using the new site more and back up checking old wiki till just start useing the new site as their main source as long the site is done right and maintained proper.

One thing to do is if just importing the data from ffwiki is to fact check it as was for out date info/wrong info what has been building up for a while on it to try make new site as accurate as possible.

it really kinda annoys me how people treat it like theyre two enirely different things when its basically the same thing being moved so it can be hosted by their own terms =/

How is it not 2 separate things? First its the admins/mods or some of them of the original ffxiclopedia running GE on their terms not necessarily the community's terms (they sound like they will listen at least unlike wikia). Then there's Wikia's version which is still getting more and more updates than GE which tells me the community doesn't care to move away from wikia making it its own thing now.

Gamerescape was created by gahoo and company to get away from shitty wikia rules, wikia version is still up cause you cant delete wikias

Firstly, Inb4 LolWoW.

But WoWwiki had the same problem, and still does. When they moved over to WoWpedia hosted by the Curse Network because they were not happy with the changes being enforced by Wikia, most people continued to use WoWwiki. As far as I know, the majority of people still use WoWwiki now, even though those who moved to WoWpedia attempted to vandalize WoWwiki in protest (and to get people to move over).

I see the exact same thing happening here really, minus the vandalism. People hate change, and to be honest, as it stands, most people aren't bothered by the fixed width, I personally don't care either way, I was a little when the change occurred, but now I'm used to it.

Personally, I'm going to continue to use FFXIclopedia, and I'm sure the majority will too.

FFXIclopedia and GamerEscape were created by the same people and have all the history and contributions (from 3 weeks before the announcement, at least). The Only reason the Wikia site still exists is because Wikia denies you the power to remove it. We actually have captured a fair portion of the traffic, though it can obviously be better. FFXIclopedia is not getting "more and more" updates, only the updates are coming from a wider range of people. On a personal level, I can only update what information was collected through datamining, and what information I've personally collected from playing, the same as anyone else. Since I and the editors we've worked with have different experiences, each info site will grow in different ways more quickly in some ways and slower in others.

If people have ways they think we can improve the site, we're happy to hear and listen. We can't do everything everyone wants because only a few of us have the necessary expertise. However, I'm certain that if anyone showed an interest and was able to help with certain things (We want to revamp the Wiki to use DPL for easier use of the same information on different pages, for instance), we could consider adding them to the team and then we would be able to more quickly act on the things people like you want. The biggest advantage GE has is it is not at the mercy of a corporation like FFXIclopedia is.

There's a couple key differences with us and WoWWiki.
1) We handled the move in a civil manner and Wikia allowed us to post the move announcements. We did not stamp our feet and cry like babies, nor did we attempt to vandalize the wiki to get people to move.
2) Although Not being on Wikia has it's perks, the original motivation for the move had nothing to do with Wikia itself. The founders wanted to integrate all of their projects after SE asked them about starting yet another project. That's how it all started.
3)GE is not hosted by Curse or any other gaming site or company. it is its own independent entity and does not answer to an executive or corporation.

I guess it wasn't clear there are admins/mods and then there is the community when it comes to public wikis, while both edit/update/create pages the community typically does the bulk of it and if the admin/mods can't get the bulk of the community to shift with them you get 2 different sites.

I'm aware the move wasn't because of Wikia Policy, I read the announcement on the FFXIclopedia forums. I'm also aware you aren't hosted by anyone, I was simply mentioning where they moved to.

Will new stuff get updated on old wiki? Not minor stuff but major page and format changes? Is there anyone that can do that?

Example:

Sobek been around awhile now. Obviously people will continue to update Sobek with drop rates and other stuff people feel like adding, including the talk page.

Now SE creates a new NM called "Awesome Sauce." Will it take weeks before someone bothers to add it to old wiki were GE will have it updated cause they have dedicated editors?

Or maybe in the case of a new set of missions. How long would it take before someone adds all the new missions? Is there an editor on old wiki?

Can the old wiki team examine entries on old wiki and add them to GE?