Ryunohige Lvl 90

Go troll the war forums and mourn KJ over there.

I heard you guyz like WAR, so...


GTFO of the DRG thread -_^

What natural advantages? /raise eyebrow

Occasionally doing double damage when you occasionally double attack? A damage boost to retaliates, provided you retaliate in the first place? A weaker WS? A weaker aftermath effect? A nigh useless attack boost, given massive crit rates? An accuracy boost that's inferior to dragoons natural job traits? Potential x-hit drop due to slightly lower delay? Slower TP gain?

I really don't see much of an "advantage" for WAR.

jerk :O

Anyways, have it even been confirmed that mythics get the ws-dmg boost?
I have'nt checked up on BG about stuff like that in ages >_<

iirc it was the relics and mythics got a boost at 90 in the aftermath of the emps doing quite so well (no pun intended :D)

I know the Relics have proof about relevant ws getting a dmg-boost, but have there been proper testing on the mythics?

20% Double Attack advantage (/WAR, 5 DA merits, 5% on AF3+2 legs) brings WAR to at least 27% Double Attack rate during TP. If they can use Pole, AF3 neck, and AF3 earring, it's 32%.

Ryunohige's AM3 (which I'm assuming you're activating because otherwise the weapon doesn't come close) gives it 40% OAT on top of the 7% DA rate I'm assuming for you (Atheling and Brutal). It may not be worth doing inside Abyssea, so we'll talk about outside.

1.44 Attacks per round outside Abyssea vs. 1.32 attacks per round (and 30% ODD, lower delay, Berserk, and higher base damage with more STR)

So WAR absolutely crushes DRG on DPS unless the target is piercing weak.

You're left making up the difference with a difference in WS frequency and WS damage. DRG's AF3+2 has taken them a long ways in terms of both WS gear in general and dDEX, but they're still playing catchup with WAR. Also, WAR gets a nice 15 STR right on the weapon and at least the JPs believe that Empyrean WSs have higher crit rate mods than other crit WSs.



Edit: Also, Atonement was shown to get Damage+15%, so that's our testing for Mythics so far. I don't know if Kirschy replicated it with Liberator.

Cool, thanks.
If it's the case with Atonement, it's probably the same for the others aswell xD

You're ignoring atma and T3 Aftermath boosted wyverns, which are actually fairly powerful pets.

And how significantly higher a Dragoons TP gain is compared to a Warriors. If you're not getting retaliation procs, you're losing both a big chunk your damage and TP gain you'd otherwise have, and if a Dragoon is going to be spamming a 15% stronger Drakesbane while 5-hitting an OAT weapon, you're not going to have an enemy looking at you all that often at all.

He said outside Abyssea*

Yeah.. Noticed that just after I posted. Point still stands inside of abyssea though. And it's fairly similar outside too.

Inside Abyssea you're using VV and Apoc, which make OAT+40% worth much less.

1+.15*2+.12*.85 = 1.402

1.402 + (.85-.12*.85)*.4 = 1.7012

1.7012/1.402 = 1.21

So using AM3 (sacrificing somewhere around 2 WSs) gains you 20% DPS and TP gain compared to the near-40% outside Abyssea.

Also, Wyverns are a joke.

Why would Dragoon use Apoc with an OAT weapon? Scorpion Queen Atma. Easy as *** 5-hit and +10% Crit rate.

And wyverns only issue is they can't be hasted. It's fairly large flaw, yeah, but the damage they provide still adds up fairly nicely in the end.

Just a thought over the "Augment Jump IV":

Considering how the T1 augment makes all jumps critical, wouldn't it be possible that the higher Tiers grant an increase in Crit Hit Damage?

Before the lvl cap break there were very few things that could enhance crit hit damage, and seeing how certain jobs now get that in the form of a JT I wouldn't be surprised if this is what the Ryu granted.

1 + .12 + .88*.4 = 1.472

1.702 - 1.472 = 23% increase in DPS and TP gain.

So it adds more than activating AM3.

Can't DRG 5-hit Ryunohige pretty easily anyway? It isn't like WAR gets some huge advantage in the STP department, and they 5-hit with a lower delay weapon. If you're going to make the argument for a SQ build, you need to make it in tandem with a /WAR argument. With SQ + /SAM 5-hit build should get you a /WAR 5-hit build, at which point you can make the argument for SQ in general thanks to Berserk and 10% DA.

I would like to point out that my statement is assuming whoever testing actually took the time to put together a 5-hit build to have a respectable parse, not some garbage 6/7-hit bullwhip build. Yes, i realize that the 5-hit is going to favor WS more than 6/7 hit but why bother testing if you dont use the correct gear for highest damage output with ANY weapon (why make an empyrean if you're gearing that poorly for that matter).

Sorry, someone was attempting to argue with me that apparently not everyone would assume the above information >.>

You're not taking in consideration WS frequency I think.
DRG still has those zomfg-jumps returning omfg-TP.
And they'll most likely /sam as well.
war/sam, vs drg/sam... you should add the spirit and soul jump into the formula, just as you should put berserk in your math.

*edit*
consider too, double atk procs on Spirit and Soul Jump. That returns *a lot* of tp.

I'm totally taking into consideration WS frequency. That's pretty much what my posts have been about.

If you want to talk about Jumps, we can also talk about Retaliations.

Also, it occurred to me since posting that a /WAR build wouldn't be good in situations where you could Hasso responsibly, which are also the only time where a /WAR build would be viable.

Exactly, on double/triple attack jumps, I see ridiculous amounts of damage/TP regain. 2175 soul jump once o:.


my crappy ws gear:


Drg gives a nice run for the money compared to war, even without an endgame weapon. I'd love to see my damage with relic/mythic @_@.

Oh I see, sorry about that!

*edit*
but even so Byrth, not taking into consideration a DRGs jump is the same as not taking into considerationa SAM that does not use meditate.
What if you add retaliation there, how do both job stands?

Keep in mind that it is very much possible to go over 50 TP on a soul jump. I really don't remember the exact numbers. if you *need* the exact TP return on jump, I can test it to you when FFXI is back online.

Why don't you do your math based on everything the WAR can provide, against everything DRG can provide?
I see the talk about WAR being a way powerful job, but let's look at the big picture: OAT Corsesca , 5 hit, with drakesbane and huge TP return on jumps. /Sam is obligatory.

I realize the power of a WAR. But in the corsesca scenario, DRG pretty much becomes a TP ***.
I'm not too sure if they are way behind WAR, in all honesty.

I'm open for opinions though! I'm not dissing WAR or anything, I just can't see how DRG is way behind in the scenario I gave you above.

Brutal Earring?

Still building coins for it, they seem to be in a drought on Asura >.>.

Can't cap gear haste with 4 pieces of armor like WAR can. We'd give up too much of it for a gear based 5-hit.

I just think it's cool that DRG has a weapon that makes WARs get their calculators out.

Corsesca OAT is the same OAT rate as an AM3 Ryunohige, but has 31 less base damage (carried through to WS) and higher delay. It's more 5-hit friendly, but does less damage. WAR with any GAxe in Abyssea should have about a 15% TA rate and 32% DA rate, compared to Dragoon's 15%, 12%, and 40%.

1+.15*2+.85*.32 = 1.572 Attacks per round <--- Warrior with any GA
1+.15*2+.85*.12 + .4*(.85-.12*.85) = 1.702 Attacks per round <--- Dragoon with Corsesca +2 or AM3 Ryunohige

So there's a .13 Attacks per round difference between the two jobs, or an 8% difference in TP gain assuming the same delay. Depending on x-hit build and weapon delay, either job may WS more frequently.


Edit: Just to note, when I saw someone go "I think Ryunohige (90) is the best weapon in the game" I went "Hmm... that's probably right" but then I started doing math. Warrior just seems to have too many freaking advantages.

That's very informative, thank you very much for the math Byrth!

It's still the best weapon. Just not equip-able by he best job.

I still say an aggressive Ryu-Dragoon would demolish an aggressive Ukon-Warrior though. Too much of your DOT and TP gain comes from retaliation procs and the amount of spammitude would take that away from you for the most part.

EDIT: Well, not demolish. That was the lack of sleep and ***ton of coffee talking. I think it'd win though.

True 5 hit build, 21.2 per hit, and still ends up with 102ish% if you ws in Rose +2 body Rajas and Brutal. Idk if it the best et up, but looked good in my book o:. I wanna see how this stacks against traditional Ukon war. (For math wiz who don't know drg's af3 bonus, its chance to have a damage % increase proportional to wyvern HP. AKA 100% hp = double damage)

Right amount of store tp im just trying to figure out the best build i can atm myself i rly rly dont want to give up love torque if i can avoid it heh .
Also in both of ya posts you say you use centaurus earring and im pretty sure DRG cannot equip it , wich is why i use Aesir /;