Christmas In Iraq

Christians living in Iraq have been forced to "cancel" Christmas festivities due to threats of deadly force by Islamic fundamentalists. Church leaders have urged Iraqis to avoid holiday decorations, and have canceled an appearance by Santa Claus.

Wouldn't the world be a far more peaceful/better place if there were no organized religious practices? I find it so ironic that Christianity and Islam both claim to be organizations of "peace". Why couldn't we have left religion where it belonged? ... in the Dark Ages with typhoid fever and leprosy ...

"In be4" anyone saying "lolIraqi-Christians are dumb for trying to practice their religion there". I agree with you, but only because I think people are dumb for practicing religion anywhere.

Also "in be4" anyone saying "but but the majority of people who practice Islam and Christianity are peaceful worshipers". Duh. We all know Fundamentalists represent a minority of "believers". My question is: can we really tolerate the violence, hatred, bigotry, and murders that are directly tied to organized Christianity and Islam just because "most followers are peaceful"?

Can we tolerate atheists; as most are peaceful, positive people, but a small percentage are psychopathic killers/rapists?

EDIT: My statement was a straight juxtaposition to yours stating that you can't make a generality of civilization as a whole and try to pigeon hole it down to a specific group. It's the same premise that all prejudices are based on.

Don't tolerate the good people because of the bad people? There will always be people who abuse influence just as there will always be people who abuse technology. We shouldn't tolerate the internet because so many people have their identities and lives ruined by hackers /eyeroll We should also take away all guns... because most people who have guns won't use them to kill other people.

You don't punish the majority for the actions of the minority.

Ugh, I just posted about religion in a religious thread..... >_<

Twice, in short succession nonetheless... ; )

Well, suppose your other post wasn't truly about religion, although it was in that section of the forums.

I love this section of the forums. I just thought people might find that other post funny though given his avatar :D

So what you're saying is this?

"Some people do some things the wrong way, therefore, no one should be allowed to do that thing."

No.
That's not it. I do not think we should "punish" good people because of bad people's actions. I think you've missed my point.

My point is: would the world not be a better place if monotheistic religions were abolished? Or, as I alluded to earlier, if humanity left Christianity and Islam in the Dark Ages where they belonged?
Everything else about humanity has progressed substantially since those times. Sanitation, Medicine, Education, Government, Technology, Exploration, Science, Transportation, Literature, Art, etc.
Organized monotheistic religions are the only thing still tethering humanity to those Dark times, where disease, murder, fear, and intolerance reigned supreme.

Cut the cord I say.

I disagree. Many advances in our culture can be attributed to these religions. Yes, there are people with misinformed beliefs, but again, they are the minority. Most people of these faiths (myself included) prefer to advance our knowledge and grow beyond what we were yesterday.

I would argue that you would still advance your knowledge and grow beyond what you were yesterday if monotheistic religions didn't exist.

I think people would just find something else to pervert as a justification for doing things harmful to humanity if there were no Islam/Christianity. Or rather make a new religion that still does harm to some people like Scientology. I think people will always find some way to influence others to do harm to others. On the bright side of those two religions, most of the people who practice the religions strive to be a positive force in the world.

You can look at the minority of Muslims as killing thousands of people, but on the other side I think there are probably a lot of lives that have been saved by Islam. Maybe through charity, maybe through forgiveness that it (I personally don't know if it does) encourages. Some people may have killed someone who harmed someone in their life. If their religion forbade it though they may not have.

I personally don't mind religious people and kind of like to learn what I can about religions. As long as your interpretation of your religion doesn't encourage harming people who are different, I think we'll get along.

Edit: *** keep posting on an old character lmao D:

In my opinion, anything like the three major monotheistic religions should be abolished simply on the basis that they preach human inferiority.

Call it hubris, but I'd like to believe that what I achieve happened because I ***' tried and not because a God blessed me or willed it to be so.

Not only that, but it's my qualm with "God" in general; we're supposed to worship him. Is a being that requires worship really worth calling a God? Would not a true God tell us to raise from our knees and walk besides him?

The only God I would kneel before is a God who told me to stand.

I feel as though without the imaginary presence of this divine boogieman, society in general would be more acutely aware that time is tickin' fast, and we'd kick our *** into a higher gear to try and actually do something and get beyond pettier problems.

But that's just me. I'm just a naive, hotheaded, 18 year old that's still forming his views.

Sometimes believing in God is fun simply to see people like the OP get their panties in a wad that we actually believe soomething they don't. Lets abolish stuff yaaaaaaay.

I say we just abolish the entire planet into space dust. We'd have a lot less ninnies around bitching about things. Then people can all find out for themselves if a god does exist.

I've heard this before, and it's possible that may be true. I surely won't say it's impossible. But I ask you to consider this:

Yes, organized religions give false pretense for people to act immorally. But, I think the biggest issue is that Christianity/Islam are so old and so steeped in fear-based compliance historically ... that impressionable/gullible/naive people readily buy into Christianity/Islam as a rallying cry that carries a disproportionate amount of leverage on society.

Need an excuse to justify hating someone or killing someone? Well, if you say "let's hate/kill her because she's left-handed!!" ... I think 99% or 100% of people would blow you off and ignore you, as they should. However, if you say "let's hate/kill her because she's Muslim/Christian!!" ... I guarantee you WILL get some larger percentage people to listen and follow you.

That's the problem. Religion carries too much weight. It should be abolished. You say that religion might cause some to think twice and not hate/kill another person. Maybe so. However, I argue that religion ENABLES just as many people (or more) to hate and/or kill. Just because people might find other rationale to hate or kill doesn't justify or excuse people for hating or killing based on religious preferences.

Oh, no, it's not just you. You are wise beyond your years, if you're really 18.


The problem with this logic is that it presumes my "panties are in a wad". The truth is, I'm not "fired up" or anything like that, and for all you know, I may not be wearing underwear.
I'm just spreading opinion and seeking discussion. So, sorry to burst your bubble, but if you believe in god just to annoy people, not only is that a dumb and selfish reason to believe in something, but you're not bothering me half as much as you think you are.

Mind you, if those monotheistic religions evolved to be more about spiritual satisfaction, equality, and all the good stuff, I'd probably be the greatest advocate for it.

But I guess we can't all be Hindus, eh?

I agree that Christianity does use a lot of fear as incentive for being a good person. I personally don't know if Islam does. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing in the context of Christianity except when used on the impressionable/uneducated. If someone of, otherwise, sound mind wants to believe that they will go to hell if they do bad things. Then there is no harm done. Only on children and uneducated people (in the sense that they cannot make rational inferences based on their own objective thoughts) do I personally object to the use of fear as an incentive to be a good person.

I think the fear-based incentives to be good were specifically created to give the less intelligent incentive to adhere to the practices of the religion. In the world as it is now, there is not as much need for it. I don't think it should be used on children. I think if a parent wants to be religious then that is fine. It shouldn't be forced upon their children though. When they are of age to realize the difference between right and wrong the option should be presented to join the rest of the family in practicing a religion for the purpose of having guidelines to live by. I think the concept of hell as a tool to make people of lesser intelligence adhere to a religion is the only major flaw to Christianity as I know it.

I don't think most people adhere to a religion purely out of fear of what is to come in the afterlife. I think they become religious because they want to become what they perceive as a good person, and want some guidelines to follow.

I don't get why you think it's a good idea to post another religious thread.

Knock it off!

^This

Of the many issues/questions with "God" I have, this is one of the major ones. For a being that is all knowing and all powerfull, he is a really sounds like a self-absorbed and narcissistic being. Pray to me or go to hell, no back talk. lol

And yes, I do believe religion is an acrhaic idea. It started as a way to explain the unexplainable before science, then as a way to control the weak minded and keep them where they are so those in power could stay in power. Although some good has come out of it, there has been far more bad that has came from it.

I'll the save the pro religious people the time and effort.

Keep christ in christmas. You athiest *** should go die in a fire. Your souls are empty because you have no belief. Even God can't save you because you're a worthless pile of ***. Rabble Rabble. etc etc

Ok I think I covered it all. Time to let this one die.

Please let it die.. Please. =(

Think you covered it all, but to be fair, this is one of the most civil religious discussions we've had in a long while.

I think the major problem with religion is that while the world evolved, religion tried to stay the same. Mass attendance is down a hell of a lot, and can we really wonder why? While Priests shouldn't do a sermon like a twitter message, I think that the stiflingly long masses are only hurting them.

If only the religions would evolve into a more open, more compassionate form of what they claim to try and be, I think I could settle with them.

Until then, in their current form, yes; I'd rather they be abolished.

To get back to the OP question, I do not think violence should ever be tolerated; yet at the same time, I do not think that the demolition of religion should be because of radicals. I think it should happen on a more fundamental level.

It's funny because some come in here and stereotype both sides of religious threads then ask them to die. Stifling any potential progress AND bumping a thread you don't like. It's so hard to avoid clicking a religious thread :(

No.
There's nothing wrong with continuing to expose the wrongs and harms that monotheistic religions bring upon humanity.

Some Christian people in Iraq want to celebrate a holiday.
Some other people in Iraq feel this celebration is offensive and threatens their Islamic "way of life".
So, they threaten to murder the Christians ... over lights and decorations.

That's worth talking about. It's a despicable show of intolerance and greed. And it needs to be condemned. For if it isn't condemned, it is accepted. And that is unacceptable, wouldn't you say?

Perhaps you would rather I turned a blind eye, or didn't "waste your time" ... but in that case, I'd say you're an ignorant fool.
No one is forcing you to read the OP or thread anyways.

Well said. I'd elaborate more, but I agree wholeheartedly. I wish more people could see with your clarity.
Also well said, for entirely different reasons.
+1.

I get that Luz, but at the same time you and I both know that no progress will be made. Has progress ever been made in the history of any post to ever cover such a topic in the history of forever?

You think today is going to be a miracle? Oh wait miracles don't exist.

These threads all start because someone is bored and they want 20 pages of back and forth. They always deliver. No one is going to convince either side one way or the other, so the debate portion of the thread is pure ***.

You're right though. It's hard to not click one of these threads just to peek inside and see the fireworks.

It's not the content I have a problem with. It's posting it on this forum, because you should know by now that this community doesn't take well to these threads.

But you're right, I don't have to click, but it's just so hard as Luz had said.

HEY ALLAH, MERRY *** CHRISTMAS...


ENJOY THIS PAIR OF AMERICAN MADE GIFTS ***!