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Why is it so difficult to criticize Islam without angrying it deeply?
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 20:45:30
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Phoenix.Darki said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: By agriculture I mean I a man-made conscious effort to create a settled society with farming as the source of food.
That's a very, very new idea.
Our "branch" has been around for 7million years. In the past 10,000 or so, we've finally actually done ***. Lol more than 10,000 years we've been marking our history. Just everyday we loose a little more evidence... ^^ Not really.
Seriously. We've been doing very little.
Progress was entirely slow because it took us so long to develop our bodies up to a point where we could speak, and therefore have thought, and therefore start society. I guess. we still had a system of survival though, otherwise we wouldnt be here, like animals.
now we have tv though..It fixes it! : D
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-05-01 20:50:23
Trebold said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: By agriculture I mean I a man-made conscious effort to create a settled society with farming as the source of food.
That's a very, very new idea.
Our "branch" has been around for 7million years. In the past 10,000 or so, we've finally actually done ***.
Yeah, agriculture is conducive to settlement. It also gives people a LOT of time. Whereas hunter-gatherer societies would constantly be on the move for food, they would have much less time to develop, say, a language. But a people who can create their own food without having to move from place to place, can focus on other things, like mate attraction. So we start finding evidence of piercings and jewelry. Also, we start seeing laws be made so that humans don't rape their women, or steal all the food, or etc. It's pretty much agreed upon by any anthropologist you ever meet.
Ehh, language really took so long because we simply weren't physically capable of it for a very long time.
Our system of survival was just like that of animals too. We are animals. We just have memory, higher emotion, and language. That's pretty much it.
We're essentially the biggest ant farm EVAR
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 20:53:49
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Trebold said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: By agriculture I mean I a man-made conscious effort to create a settled society with farming as the source of food.
That's a very, very new idea.
Our "branch" has been around for 7million years. In the past 10,000 or so, we've finally actually done ***.
Yeah, agriculture is conducive to settlement. It also gives people a LOT of time. Whereas hunter-gatherer societies would constantly be on the move for food, they would have much less time to develop, say, a language. But a people who can create their own food without having to move from place to place, can focus on other things, like mate attraction. So we start finding evidence of piercings and jewelry. Also, we start seeing laws be made so that humans don't rape their women, or steal all the food, or etc. It's pretty much agreed upon by any anthropologist you ever meet.
Ehh, language really took so long because we simply weren't physically capable of it for a very long time.
Our system of survival was just like that of animals too. We are animals. We just have memory, higher emotion, and language. That's pretty much it.
We're essentially the biggest ant farm EVAR
ah you sound like you were actually there, tell me moar i know you have a time machine and spyed on us having sex at nights o.~ you tool! how dare you. thats like CP!
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-05-01 20:56:44
Phoenix.Darki said: ah you sound like you were actually there, tell me moar i know you have a time machine and spyed on us having sex at nights o.~ you tool! how dare you. thats like CP!
No, but if you'd like, I can tell you how they used to have sex, if you're into that sort of thing.
Actually one of the only reasons the gender gap came early on was due to the fact that they had to change and experiment all sorts of positions to have sex once their lower body changed, but I digress.
Romance philology courses that cover way back to our start teach you an awful lot.
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 20:59:56
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Phoenix.Darki said: ah you sound like you were actually there, tell me moar i know you have a time machine and spyed on us having sex at nights o.~ you tool! how dare you. thats like CP!
No, but if you'd like, I can tell you how they used to have sex, if you're into that sort of thing.
Actually one of the only reasons the gender gap came early on was due to the fact that they had to change and experiment all sorts of positions to have sex once their lower body changed, but I digress.
Romance philology courses that cover way back to our start teach you an awful lot.
what the *** i was only kidding lol now im interested, moar please. i didnt know such a study existed. >: ( MOAR
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-05-01 21:00:52
People like Action are why, despite being an atheist that was raised a Catholic in a racist family and despite the racism still in my home town since it's part of NYC, my best friend is a Moroccan Muslim.
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 21:01:24
Religion had it ok.
Then people started to think for themselves. Thats what screwed them up.
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:01:56
Damn it I cant quote that guy. But thanks for the info, I've always wondered the differences in both cultures, I'm still fascinated by the artwork in most of them.
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:02:35
Asura.Korpg said: Religion had it ok.
Then people started to think for themselves. Thats what screwed them up.
hellz yeah. This post should be bumped for moar sauce.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-05-01 21:03:11
Phoenix.Darki said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Phoenix.Darki said: ah you sound like you were actually there, tell me moar i know you have a time machine and spyed on us having sex at nights o.~ you tool! how dare you. thats like CP!
No, but if you'd like, I can tell you how they used to have sex, if you're into that sort of thing.
Actually one of the only reasons the gender gap came early on was due to the fact that they had to change and experiment all sorts of positions to have sex once their lower body changed, but I digress.
Romance philology courses that cover way back to our start teach you an awful lot.
what the *** i was only kidding lol now im interested, moar please. i didnt know such a study existed. >: ( MOAR
I wasn't being defensive, I was being totally nonchalant in that statement lol.
I'll see if I can dig through my old notes and find where we discussed sex through the ages.
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:04:51
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Phoenix.Darki said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Phoenix.Darki said: ah you sound like you were actually there, tell me moar i know you have a time machine and spyed on us having sex at nights o.~ you tool! how dare you. thats like CP!
No, but if you'd like, I can tell you how they used to have sex, if you're into that sort of thing.
Actually one of the only reasons the gender gap came early on was due to the fact that they had to change and experiment all sorts of positions to have sex once their lower body changed, but I digress.
Romance philology courses that cover way back to our start teach you an awful lot.
what the *** i was only kidding lol now im interested, moar please. i didnt know such a study existed. >: ( MOAR
I wasn't being defensive, I was being totally nonchalant in that statement lol.
I'll see if I can dig through my old notes and find where we discussed sex through the ages. maybe we can learn from our old anscestors some kamasutra... <3 lol
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:05:12
this thread is officialy now about sex
Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-05-01 21:09:04
why is the creator of these threads still alive? -.-
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:11:46
Gilgamesh.Andras said: why is the creator of these threads still alive? -.-
This thread is about sex, Please proceed to post sex in here or you will be banned, our best regards, [GM]Darki
By Trebold 2010-05-01 21:16:18
Ragnarok.Action said: Hello I am a Muslim and an Arab and I saw this topic and, unfortunately, the subject of non-meaningful.
First, there's a big difference between a Muslim and Arab,
Islam is a religion and each religion beliefs is not entitled to speak to the person of any faith or religion but it does not have the information at that, and it is clear evidence I am sure that the majority involved in the topic does not have legitimacy in the culture of religion. To hand the text is clear and explicitly stated in the Koran for you your religion, we have our religion.
Islam is a religion full praise and if you think a day in his study and look you will find it a peaceful religion that respects human life in all its standards more than anything else.
As to the issue of the Arabs as a group of several countries, each country its own way in dealing with debt of some countries have more open than others, like any other country. For all of the terrorists know that there are two sides to every religion and every country and every civilization by the bad and good side.
The meaning of these words: Mistake of the customs and ancient traditions in some countries does not exceed 30% of Muslims, including mean that there is 70% of people have nothing to do with terrorism, colonialism, invasion and war.
I hope the lack of severity and respect the beliefs of others and are not attacking religion or insulting unlawfully. And actually I hope you become acquainted to Islam correctly we are human beings like you practice the same customs and everyday we share the same life but we have different beliefs and this something normal. Does not make us criminals.
Read the bold part like 10 times trying to make sense of it. When I thought I made sense of it, it seemed like it just boiled down to: "Don't criticize my religion(Islam)." But I can't be too sure. Can anyone fully explain to me what that bolded run-on means?
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:17:08
sex.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 21:25:42
The sad thing is, Christianity is this fanatical most of the time.
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 21:30:33
Shiva.Flionheart said: The sad thing is, Christianity is this fanatical most of the time.
By Trebold 2010-05-01 21:37:36
Asura.Korpg said: Shiva.Flionheart said: The sad thing is, Christianity is this fanatical most of the time.
You guys aren't allowed to talk about Christianity like that.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 21:43:22
Trebold said: Asura.Korpg said: Shiva.Flionheart said: The sad thing is, Christianity is this fanatical most of the time.
You guys aren't allowed to talk about Christianity like that.
says who? if he says it its because he has a good reason backing it up. Honestly most christians ive met are fanatics who dont respect anybody else.
Go christ! in the name of loljesus.com.
Atheism ftw.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 21:55:20
Muslims aren't always violent and Christians aren't always civil...or logical. Anyway, Idk why this derailed thread is still going.
I am boss, this thread sux.
Good night.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 21:57:36
Christians are quite often violent, check out red-necks.
Personally, I find it hard to believe in something that condones bloodshed. I believe there is a higher power perhaps, but if there is we will never be advanced enough to detect it.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 22:04:08
Phoenix.Kojo said: Muslims aren't always violent and Christians aren't always civil...or logical. Anyway, Idk why this derailed thread is still going.
I am boss, this thread sux.
Good night.
SEX THREAD
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 22:05:42
Phoenix.Darki said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Muslims aren't always violent and Christians aren't always civil...or logical. Anyway, Idk why this derailed thread is still going.
I am boss, this thread sux.
Good night.
SEX THREAD
Are you coming on to me?!
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 22:09:16
Shiva.Flionheart said: Christians are quite often violent, check out red-necks. Personally, I find it hard to believe in something that condones bloodshed. I believe there is a higher power perhaps, but if there is we will never be advanced enough to detect it.
Ok, one more post. Then I'm going to bed, my eyes hurt.
I believe in God, I believe there is a higher power, but I also believe that many religions are anti-nature, anti-progress*, and for the most part illogical. "It's ok, you can atone, but if you don't I condemn you." and "Only God can judge me!" Compare those two. One could condemn a sinner, but fly off the handle if someone judges them. Now, Not all individual churches have these fanatics, as one of them recently helped my family when we went completely broke due to no work. There are good religious people out there. There are those who actually DO live by their morals while keeping up with modern society. But for every legit church with good people, there are 2-5 cult-churches. But that's Christianity. This thread is about Islam. (And sex) But the first part applies to many religions.
*By anti-progress I mean how people condemn something brand new because of morality. Or even how certain people won't have a blood transfusion to save their life due to religion.
And with that, I'm done, pick it apart, dissect it, whatever. I'm out, peace.
Fairy.Basilo
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By Fairy.Basilo 2010-05-01 22:10:43
I think the more important question is what are we gonna call ourselves?
The Unified Atheist League (UAL), the United Atheist Alliance (UAA) or the Allied Atheist Allegiance (AAA) ?
[+]
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 22:29:28
Phoenix.Kojo said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Christians are quite often violent, check out red-necks. Personally, I find it hard to believe in something that condones bloodshed. I believe there is a higher power perhaps, but if there is we will never be advanced enough to detect it.
Ok, one more post. Then I'm going to bed, my eyes hurt.
I believe in God, I believe there is a higher power, but I also believe that many religions are anti-nature, anti-progress*, and for the most part illogical. "It's ok, you can atone, but if you don't I condemn you." and "Only God can judge me!" Compare those two. One could condemn a sinner, but fly off the handle if someone judges them. Now, Not all individual churches have these fanatics, as one of them recently helped my family when we went completely broke due to no work. There are good religious people out there. There are those who actually DO live by their morals while keeping up with modern society. But for every legit church with good people, there are 2-5 cult-churches. But that's Christianity. This thread is about Islam. (And sex) But the first part applies to many religions.
*By anti-progress I mean how people condemn something brand new because of morality. Or even how certain people won't have a blood transfusion to save their life due to religion.
And with that, I'm done, pick it apart, dissect it, whatever. I'm out, peace.
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-01 22:51:08
I think most people have a problem with Islam when they are trying to force Sharia upon others. Take a look at the UK, and what Islam is trying to do there.
If you do not know what I am writing about, I am not going to explain.
I mean you dont see any foreigns going into Islamic countries and try to change their laws. If we did, there would be lots of problems.
No one forced them to go and live in other non Islamic countries. If they do not like the laws of the US or the UK why are they still living there?
Most Islamic women are suppose to wear berkas, it varies from country to country. The Islamic men have no problems staring at modern women, now do they.
When you are in a foreign country you are suppose to respect their customs and not change them.
All of us are a bunch of infidels, according to Islam.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 22:52:45
Seraph.Rafik said: I think most people have a problem with Islam when they are trying to force Sharia upon others. Take a look at the UK, and what Islam is trying to do there.
If you do not know what I am writing about, I am not going to explain.
I mean you dont see any foreigns going into Islamic countries and try to change their laws. If we did, there would be lots of problems.
No one forced them to go and live in other non Islamic countries. If they do not like the laws of the US or the UK why are they still living there?
Most Islamic women are suppose to wear berkas, it varies from country to country. The Islamic men have no problems staring at modern women, now do they.
When you are in a foreign country you are suppose to respect their customs and not change them.
All of us are a bunch of infidels, according to Islam.
Agree completely, the amount they get away with in the UK makes me sick sometimes.
They were going to cause a riot when we were parading our fallen soldiers, I was deeply sickened tbh.
I think I figured out how it is possible that the large majority of people from the Muslim world would be so profoundly offended when their Prophet is criticized or made fun of. I mean, to them, it could very well look obvious, yet it seems they do not really understand why either. A lot of them just accept that someone would be killed for depicting the prophet Mohamed, even though we ask them why, in a way that we feel cannot be argued with. How is it possible that someone would be hated for openly making fun of something as mundane as religion, we ask? I think I can reasonably explain why they would accept the idea, believe it or not. I want to know what is to be done if we're going to help these people stop feeling so persecuted and if we’re going to finally gain the right to criticize Islam, as it should be, without threatening the people in it. The answer, I think, lies in our perceptions of what religion is versus where it should stand in relations to ethnicity. Help me out.
First, it is difficult to argue against the idea that Islam, to this day, is majorly against the advancement of secular culture. It is associated so directly to what I would refer, for lack of a better word, Arabian culture, that criticizing a religion tied so closely with it, appears (at least from my personal experience) to insult them, as people. Another factor to consider is how Muslims, despite their divisions, have the strength in numbers to lead us into being cautious about criticizing Islamic beliefs, even if it shouldn’t be so. Any critic, whether it is well intentioned or backed with incredibly solid and logical arguments, seems to backfire when it is targeted at Islam. More than often, it seems to be giving more reasons to feel justified, leading Islamic countries to cocoon themselves from modern secular culture. Unlike other ethnicities that are also extremely tied to their religion; the Jews, for example, the fact that they’re over a billion, somewhat gives them the mental ability to feel universally justified. It’s as if any strong criticism of Islam was a threat to their identity, integrity and intelligence, even when it’s not...
In a secular view, insulting religion doesn't necessarily equate to racial discrimination, and the fact that our western culture systematically ignores this, is the key point that prevents the western world from understanding why Muslims would be so offended. I have come to realize that a lot of Muslims try to say it, but it seems they do not understand what I am writing here, at least not enough to put it into the proper words that would make us understand. My goal is to help us both come to understand, through careful yet fortunate observations which I feel have led me to grasp some of this intricate psychology.
Let’s think for a second about this analogy: Let’s compare some white guy shouting racist comments towards blacks to your average non-Christian openly criticizing Christianity. Which is the worst, in the eyes of the average American, or European? Racism, isn’t it? Racism is undoubtedly the worst of those two things, at least according to our modern secular values. This is not to say that racism has been eradicated from the Western world, far from it. But even for the most racist among us in North America, it is extremely discouraged to make a racist statement publicly. It is not viewed as acceptable at all.
Have you ever seen a single Arabic person and expect him not to be a Muslim? It's as if their religion has so much grasp that it's nearly impossible for an Arabic person to not be a Muslim. But why doesn’t anyone seem to question this fact? Isn’t it fishy, considering that religion should be a choice? In fact, Muslims, in Muslim countries, are taught, from childhood, that the punishment for apostasy is death. The indoctrination is done to them so early in their life, and in such a strong and unquestionable way, that it achieves terrific results; it is almost irreversible. To them this is a good thing; to us, it’s just wrong.
In my opinion, the fact that Islam, as a religion, has been able to keep such a strong grasp, to this day, on the lives of the almost entirety of Arabic cultures is leading the Islamic world to a dangerous path. We all know that not only religion can be used to control masses, ii can also be a dangerous weapon. In America, some will argue, television is used for mass propaganda and it is difficult for the majority to avoid being brainwashed by many ideas that they would otherwise have never acquired as individuals. However, an average occidental still gets to make SOME choices about what morality should be; they chose whether they’ll be for or against abortion, whether they’ll be against slavery or not, whether they’ll vote for a black man or not.
It is possible to speak with a Muslim about what we dislike in Islam, without him getting angry. I have experienced it myself. It is difficult, however. Even as I was able to converse, I would feel the incredible pain that questioning one’s own identity can inflict on an indoctrinated individual. As we cannot tolerate being racially discriminated, they cannot tolerate negative criticism of Islam; they view is as their culture.
It may be sad to say, for most of us who wish for world peace, but secularism is not going to happen anytime soon in the Arab world. It could never be forced on Muslims. It is completely against their conception of what a religion should be and what place it should have in their life. Through what I have just explained, we can even understand the bottomless frustration of Muslims against non-Muslims when faced with debates like whether or not we should be banning the Burka in public spaces. The same issue arises: to us, it’s common sense and required for secularism, to them it’s a slap in the face, not as a Muslim but as an Arab. To us, it's freedom of speech; to them, it's against it. It is an insult to their culture, just as we would react to someone trying to deny our right to have a cultural background, just as we would react to a Muslim telling a White woman that wearing g-strings is degrading and wrong.
How can we possibly achieve a secular society, with Muslims living in it, if we do not agree on whether it’s okay to force someone to act secularly? Aren’t we stuck with the problem of having many kids arguing about who gets to play with the ball, while one of the kids sits on the ball, arguing that it should not be played with in the first place? How flexible can secularism be, without ending up betraying itself?
Can we find a temporary solution? I would like your opinion.
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