Looking at some of the finished Weps from Magians, and there are some nice looking weps.
Mantis DMG:+21 Delay+55
Warfang DMG+17 Delay+140 Occ. Atk. Twice
Cat's Claws DMG+18 Delay+61 STR+4 Attack+12
Thoughts?
Magian Weps > Destroyers?
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Magian Weps > Destroyers?
Might depend on how 'Occasionally' it attacks twice
But I imagine Mantis might be something to look into From what I've seen on BG, the short answer is already 'no'.
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I could see Mantis being better, +3DMG at only the cost of +6 delay. Now, I don't know the math, so I'm not positive on that one. Warfang it depends no what Occ. Atk. Twice means to these. If its like 50% proc rate, then I could see these getting SOME use. I personally dont see the usage for Cat's Claws though except MAYBE HF build... I know WS's don't crit, so these would put out better Asuran Fists, BUT the increased delay AND loss of crit during TP phase just doesn't justify the other stats to me. As I stated though, I haven't done the math on these yet... maybe someone else can do it for us and enlighten us.
Edit: Forgot to state that loss of crit during TP phase for the Cat's Claws argument, added it though. They seem a bit meh atm tbh.
I'm heading up the cat claws path. That Mantis should edge out Destroyers. 2% slower but hits about 5.2% harder before accounting for the crits. Also has a higher fSTR cap. I'd imagine Warfang would depend on the proc rate, but if they proc at the same rate as Faith Baghs then Warfangs will win easily. Not really impressed with Cat's Claws, at least not with the specs you listed.
EDIT: Faith DA is independent of the DA trait, so it's actually fairly close assuming 50% on each. I'd give the advantage to Faiths if /WAR without mathing the loss of the ammo slot. Well I decided to head up the warfangs path, I'll report the proc rate once I've finished with it.
Kinematic's math
Quote: Mantis: +21 dmg, +55 delay Using mid-level Destroyers data setup from my own thread as a comparison basis. Attack: 400 + 60 + 65 = 525 Defense: 327 - 10% (Dia II) = 295 cRatio = 1.43 Crit rate: 7% + 4% = 11% Base punch damage: 60 Base kick damage: 39 Brutal earring 2 KA merits 100 attack rounds = 200 punches + 10 DA punches + 14.5 kicks Baseline (d18/dl+48): - punches: 23.1 crit, 186.9 non-crit - kicks: 1.595 crit, 12.905 non-crit Base damage: (186.9 * 1.43 * 57) + (23.1 * 2.43 * 57) + (12.905 * 1.43 * 39) + (1.595 * 2.43 * 39) = 19,305 w/Mantis: - punches: 23.1 crit, 186.9 non-crit - kicks: 1.595 crit, 12.905 non-crit Mantis damage: (186.9 * 1.43 * 60) + (23.1 * 2.43 * 60) + (12.905 * 1.43 * 39) + (1.595 * 2.43 * 39) = 20,275 Edit: New Melee/WS ratio. Ignoring Feather Tickle as a modifying factor. Melee = (20*60) + (60 * (20 * .11%) * ((2.43/1.43)-1)) = 1,292 WS = 8 * (60+12) = 576 1292/(1292+576) = 69% (melee percentage) Total base damage: 19,305 / .69 = 27,978 Total Mantis damage: 20,275 / .69 = 29,384 Delay: 355 vs 348 29,384 * 348 / 355 = 28,805 Total improvement with Mantis: 3.0% On par with or slightly better than Destroyers (half a percent or so). Improves to 1% better or more as Destroyers approaches worst-case. Quote: Wargfangs: +17 dmg, +140 delay, occasionally attacks twice Ignoring the low-damage version. Assuming 45% proc rate on both hands, and that it doesn't stack with DA. Attack: 400 + 60 + 65 = 525 Defense: 327 - 10% (Dia II) = 295 cRatio = 1.43 Crit rate: 7% + 4% = 11% Base punch damage: 56 Base kick damage: 39 Brutal earring 2 KA merits 100 attack rounds = 290 punches + 5.5 DA punches + 14.5 kicks w/Wargfangs: - punches: 32.505 crit, 262.995 non-crit - kicks: 1.595 crit, 12.905 non-crit Mantis damage: (262.995 * 1.43 * 56) + (32.505 * 2.43 * 56) + (12.905 * 1.43 * 39) + (1.595 * 2.43 * 39) = 26,355 Edit: New Melee/WS ratio. Ignoring Feather Tickle as a modifying factor. Melee = (21*56) + (56 * (21 * .11%) * ((2.43/1.43)-1)) = 1,266 WS = 8 * (56+12) = 544 1266/(1266+544) = 70% (melee percentage) Total base damage: 19,305 / .69 = 27,978 Total Wangfangs damage: 26,355 / .70 = 37,650 Delay: 440 vs 348 37,650 * 348 / 440 = 29,778 Gain: 6.4% over baseline d18/dl+48 weapon. They are basically identical to Faiths (which reached 29,801 damage in the same conditions), but free up the ammo slot for further boosts.
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thanks for the quoting. searched aswell for that data.
I'm entering hurrr retard mode, does this make wargfangs > mantis? And where does this leave Destroyers?
Working on using Final Heaven 1500 times on Vermin for Damage +2 and then killing 1500 Plantoids with Final Heaven for Damage +6 on my Spharai.
What about the Cat Claws that have DMG:18 Delay:+61 AGI+4 and EVA+12, noone would concider picking that up for an eva setup?
And can someone post the trial path for the Pet: MAB +5 I keep seeing ppl talking about it but I can't find the path on wiki. " Also has a higher fSTR cap"
nope, D+16-23 weapons all have same fstr. Also the warfang's occ attack 2x probably only works on first hit, just like mythic, because it's SE, which put it about 1% better than destroyer which means it's a giant waste of time. Instead of doing boring ***for hours you could just farm virtue stones and have a better weapon ...w. Juste need confirmation for the occ. attack. twice. It's easy to check : go monk/nin without brutal and check if you see 4 swings.
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Necro Bump Detected!
[79 days between previous and next post]so Wargfangs is better then destroyer?
Not worth your time.
Fenrir.Surgator said: so Wargfangs is better then destroyer? no. (for now) Fenrir.Surgator said: so Wargfangs is better then destroyer? Quote: Also the warfang's occ attack 2x probably only works on first hit, just like mythic but we don't know if it work only for the first hit atm , need confirmation!
Fenrir.Surgator said: but we don't know if it work only for the first hit atm , need confirmation! You realize you necrobumped this thread that was last posted in 79 days ago right? How many people do you think have had these weapons for a while now? Yeah. Only OAT on the first swing. Worthless. Sylph.Vincentius said: Worthless. If you're using Faiths or you've got a build very similar to Tigerwood's Destroyer build, then yes. I could be entirely wrong though. Probably didn't see the thread through to completion. But last I saw, a fairly decent build with Footwork+Wargfangs > Fists+Destroyers Yeah, I doubt that.
Would be open to seeing proof however. Until then, not even going to entertain that idea. lol There's some math for it on KI. It's an improvement to shitty builds, but does nothing for a mnk with good gear. Mainly for kyoshu kyahan and the 20 acc they give. The shittier your acc the better footwork build will do in comparison, still doesn't top high end builds however.
Sorry, tired. Completely ignored this:
Caitsith.Linear said: If you're using Faiths or you've got a build very similar to Tigerwood's Destroyer build, then yes. Whoops. Mine's remotely close to yours, minus a few MNK specific things like ACP helm and whatnot. okay nice to know for the weapon that swing 1 double attack only on main hand, and for the necro bump sorry but i still think that was unnessary to make anothe tread for that if you talk about that before.
Did you even click the link? It's on an entirely different forum.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: There's some math for it on KI. It's an improvement to shitty builds, but does nothing for a mnk with good gear. Mainly for kyoshu kyahan and the 20 acc they give. The shittier your acc the better footwork build will do in comparison, still doesn't top high end builds however. If it's 40% OAT, footwork+oat warfang trashes anything but relic, just saying. If it's already been mathed out, I think you might be wrong. Just saying.
Sylph.Vincentius said: If it's already been mathed out, I think you might be wrong. Just saying. Wrong, all the maths showed footwork better with the OAT procing 40% of the time. Ideal setup would be Dune on feet, some alla guys did maths with an half-assed setup using kyoshu kyahan. Footwork setup is only 1% to 2% less haste due to tiercel necklace and acubens helm. The high damage on warfangs and the attack boost inherent to footwork seals the deal although it doesn't exceed a few percents. For you average andgame activity, pizza is solving all accuracy issues if needed so tiercel/acubens are perfect for footwork. So to sum it up, Warg + footwork = better than faiths?
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