|
|
Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 68
By Asura.Karianna 2010-03-19 23:29:37
Gilgamesh.Andras said: THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU ^^d
[+]
Gilgamesh.Aerokii
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Gilgamesh.Aerokii 2010-03-19 23:29:44
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: As a Christian I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others
The bible speaks clearly against homosexuality. And you're a christian? How do you pick which parts of the bible you follow and which ones you don't? What's the purpose of a holy book if you can decide on it's pertinence? You could believe in God and not be part of a religion. That would already make a little more sense to me. Because organized religions are the threat, not people like you who can actually have values of their own.
Think of it as more of a guideline. And remember that just because people go to church or whatever, it doesn't mean they can't have their own thoughts and opinions. As pertinent information I believe the Lutherans, within the past year were in the middle of an intense debate about allowing homosexual priests, and the lines were split... well, right down the middle. If half of them believed it was ok, then that gives me enough hope that eventually the rest of them will come around as well.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1085
By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:30:22
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: As a Christian I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others
The bible speaks clearly against homosexuality. And you're a christian? How do you pick which parts of the bible you follow and which ones you don't? What's the purpose of a holy book if you can decide on it's pertinence? You could believe in God and not be part of a religion. That would already make a little more sense to me. Because organized religions are the threat, not people like you who can actually have values of their own.
Yo~! that was meeee btw :P
Please tell me how a Man being in love with another Man or a Woman being in love with another Woman is detrimental to society? Are they opressing people? Killing in the name of their love? Nope? Then why should I be against it?
The main focus on the Bible is / should Be Peace, Love and acceptance. You ask me if I'm a Christian? Hell yes I am.
Remora.Dubont
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2010-03-19 23:31:04
No, religion is not preventing natural selection. Religion is a sort of crutch (no disrespect intended upon anyone) For the vast majority of people in the world, Religion is something to fall back on during hard times. To some, religion is all that they have. Some even believe that their religion is corrupted but they pass down the idea of heaven to give their children a feeling of a place better than what they live in. Religion is the hope of being free from death and destruction.
Religion in itself is harmful. The belief of a higher power or a better place is not until it gets to the point where people are delusional. For example, the woman who appeared on Fox news that was calling our soldiers sinners. That is where the line needs to be drawn and that is where it needs to be stopped.
[+]
Ragnarok.Psyence
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:34:01
Atheists who claim evolution cannot be denied.
Religious people who claim God cannot be questioned.
They have a point in common: belief.
If you read my original post, I am not exactly promoting atheism.
I am criticizing beliefs.
But because it's impossible to be religious without having the belief that God exists for sure. And because it IS possible to be an atheist without being convinced that there can't be a God out there... Guess who wins the argument?
I mean, it's easy to change the subject, but my point was made clear.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 68
By Asura.Karianna 2010-03-19 23:35:29
Asura.Israfel said: Please tell me how a Man being in love with another Man or a Woman being in love with another Woman is detrimental to society? Are they opressing people? Killing in the name of their love? Nope? Then why should I be against it?
The main focus on the Bible is / should Be Peace, Love and acceptance. You ask me if I'm a Christian? Hell yes I am. ...I'm not going to take either side here, don't get all pissy on me, but I fail to see how being against homosexuality goes against peace, love, and acceptance. Hate the sin, not the sinner, right?
[+]
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:35:38
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Atheists who claim evolution cannot be denied.
Religious people who claim God cannot be questioned.
They have a point in common: belief.
If you read my original post, I am not exactly promoting atheism.
I am criticizing beliefs.
But because it's impossible to be religious without having the belief that God exists for sure. And because it IS possible to be an atheist without being convinced that there can't be a God out there... Guess who wins the argument?
I mean, it's easy to change the subject, but my point was made clear.
So to believe in a god people need 100% proof?
[+]
Remora.Dubont
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2010-03-19 23:36:30
Atheism is the belief in no gods existing at all so no, you can't be an atheist if you belief in the possibility of a god. If you belief in the possibility, then you are categorized under Agnostic or sometime Agnostic-Atheist which is not the same as a full Atheist. Just clearing that up.
[+]
Ragnarok.Psyence
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:36:58
Remora.Dubont said: No, religion is not preventing natural selection. Religion is a sort of crutch (no disrespect intended upon anyone) For the vast majority of people in the world, Religion is something to fall back on during hard times.
Is it also what allows them to sit back and wait for God to come to their aid. When you're in deep ***, there are steps to be taken in order to take charge of your life. Religion helps? I'm not so sure. These people will spend their lives wishing and hoping, comforting themselves with the thought that they weren't responsible for their misery. Now that's the kind of comfort I'm not sure they actually need.
[+]
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:39:14
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Remora.Dubont said: No, religion is not preventing natural selection. Religion is a sort of crutch (no disrespect intended upon anyone) For the vast majority of people in the world, Religion is something to fall back on during hard times.
Is it also what allows them to sit back and wait for God to come to their aid. When you're in deep ***, there are steps to be taken in order to take charge of your life. Religion helps? I'm not so sure. These people will spend their lives wishing and hoping, comforting themselves with the thought that they weren't responsible for their misery. Now that's the kind of comfort I'm not sure they actually need.
Yeah cuz all people who believe in a higher being just sit around all day and wait
Ragnarok.Psyence
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:40:27
Andras said: So to believe in a god people need 100% proof?
Psyence said: No... Believing = taking something that you can't prove, and pretend it's a fact... So no, you don't need proof to believe. Faith = making a virtue out of not thinking.
As stated by Bill Maher in his movie Religulous: Religion is dangerous because it allows people who don't have all the answers... to think that they do.
[+]
Remora.Dubont
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2010-03-19 23:41:11
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Is it also what allows them to sit back and wait for God to come to their aid. When you're in deep ***, there are steps to be taken in order to take charge of your life. Religion helps? I'm not so sure. These people will spend their life wishing and hoping, comforting themselves with the thought that they weren't responsible for their misery.
You are right, they will, but that does not make them right. It is what they believe whether it is right or not will not change what they believe until they have absolute proof. For example, Santa Claus. Children believe in Santa until their parents tell them he's fake...then even more don't believe it until they get up and see mommy and daddy putting presents under the tree. (this is about to be very mean but..) God is to adults as Santa is to Children. Without 100% proof, we can't change that...so why bother trying?
[+]
Ragnarok.Psyence
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:41:15
Gilgamesh.Andras said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Remora.Dubont said: No, religion is not preventing natural selection. Religion is a sort of crutch (no disrespect intended upon anyone) For the vast majority of people in the world, Religion is something to fall back on during hard times.
Is it also what allows them to sit back and wait for God to come to their aid. When you're in deep ***, there are steps to be taken in order to take charge of your life. Religion helps? I'm not so sure. These people will spend their lives wishing and hoping, comforting themselves with the thought that they weren't responsible for their misery. Now that's the kind of comfort I'm not sure they actually need.
Yeah cuz all people who believe in a higher being just sit around all day and wait
If you read well, we were talking about *hard times*.
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 68
By Asura.Karianna 2010-03-19 23:41:48
Every problem with religion presented thus far has to do not with the religion itself, but what people do with their religion. I've yet to see a convincing argument that religion is bad. We’ve already had our great experiment of eradicating religion. It was called the twentieth century, the most secular century in the history of mankind. What happened? Let’s see… Marxism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, two World Wars, the Holocaust and other genocides, the atomic bomb, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Cold War, and the bloodiest century in human history… all in the name of secularism and scientific “progress”.
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:41:52
Hey how do I know that your atheism has all the answers when you think you do?
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1085
By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:42:52
Asura.Karianna said: Asura.Israfel said: Please tell me how a Man being in love with another Man or a Woman being in love with another Woman is detrimental to society? Are they opressing people? Killing in the name of their love? Nope? Then why should I be against it?
The main focus on the Bible is / should Be Peace, Love and acceptance. You ask me if I'm a Christian? Hell yes I am. ...I'm not going to take either side here, don't get all pissy on me, but I fail to see how being against homosexuality goes against peace, love, and acceptance. Hate the sin, not the sinner, right?
Oh don't worry I'm not gonna get all pissy on you haha ^^/
To be honest I'm not fully sure why people would dislike homosexuality, sure I can understand that people could be uncomfortable about it because society through the past has deemed it 'un-natural' and 'immoral' to a certain extent.
My reasons for stating homosexuality in reference to the bible is because that seems to be a big kicker, and always seems to come up in people vs. christianity.
I'm very very open minded so I don't dislike either homosexuality, or homosexuals, if that makes sense. At the same time though, I'm not going to chastise those who disagree with my feelings on the matter either (As long as you know... they're not persecuting those who chose that path etc etc lol).
Being against Homosexuality doesn't necessarily mean that you're going against the Morals of Peace, love and acceptance, to each their own ^^, it does draw the line when persecution for a life choice comes in to play^^ I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense lol, I need more coffee!! :P
[+]
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:44:20
STFU IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG
is that about all thats happend here? o.o
Gilgamesh.Aerokii
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Gilgamesh.Aerokii 2010-03-19 23:44:44
Gilgamesh.Andras said: STFU IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG
is that about all thats happend here? o.o
That about sums it up, yeah. Can we go home now?
[+]
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 738
By Phoenix.Smileybone 2010-03-19 23:45:05
I hate it how people try to say who's right and who's wrong even though they don't know for sure themselves.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-03-19 23:45:06
Asura.Israfel said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: As a Christian I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others
The bible speaks clearly against homosexuality. And you're a christian? How do you pick which parts of the bible you follow and which ones you don't? What's the purpose of a holy book if you can decide on it's pertinence? You could believe in God and not be part of a religion. That would already make a little more sense to me. Because organized religions are the threat, not people like you who can actually have values of their own.
Yo~! that was meeee btw :P
Please tell me how a Man being in love with another Man or a Woman being in love with another Woman is detrimental to society? Are they opressing people? Killing in the name of their love? Nope? Then why should I be against it?
The main focus on the Bible is / should Be Peace, Love and acceptance. You ask me if I'm a Christian? Hell yes I am. Yeah Umm I didn't say that! LOL! I don't do the religion thing. Doesn't make sense to me.
Ragnarok.Psyence
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:45:12
@Dubont
what you forget is that, just like God, you can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist... you just asume he doesn't because... well... you've got to admit that it's very unlikely that he would... lol >.>
we don't believe in Santa Claus because we think the idea of a man dropping presents in chimneys is ridiculous as we grow up...
somehow, we can't get rid of believing in the other old man who hears everyone murmuring at once and watches over us...
santa claus?? ridiculous... the old man? that I get... see my point?
[+]
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:45:20
Gilgamesh.Aerokii said: Gilgamesh.Andras said: STFU IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG
is that about all thats happend here? o.o
That about sums it up, yeah. Can we go home now?
Not until you RANT MOAR
Remora.Dubont
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2010-03-19 23:45:37
Gilgamesh.Andras said: Hey how do I know that your atheism has all the answers when you think you do?
Atheism doesn't have the answers and anyone who thinks it does is not an Atheist. That person is a troll. Atheism is about learning new things without the ever looming idea of a higher power influencing what we believe and do.
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1085
By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:45:59
@Chaos XD np dude!
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:47:05
Ragnarok.Psyence said: @Dubont
what you forget is that, just like God, you can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist... you just asume he doesn't because... well... you've got to admit that it's very unlikely that he would... lol >.>
we don't believe in Santa Claus because we think the idea of a man dropping presents in chimneys is ridiculous as we grow up...
somehow, we can't get rid of believing in the other old man who hears everyone murmuring at once and watches over us...
santa clause?? ridiculous... the old man? that I get...
yeah i grew up and i think your ideas of a big bang are ridiculous...
[+]
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2680
By Siren.Clinpachi 2010-03-19 23:48:42
I don't personally believe in god but i understand the importance of religion in other people's lives.
Some people want to believe they are doing good with their life for a greater cause. They want to think they will be taken care of in the afterlife.
I don't see anything wrong with that.
I do have a problem with people trying to preach at me or try to persuade me into their religion.
I don't have issues with my life and take things as they come head on. I always strive to be a decent human being, open doors for people or at least hold them. I do what's right or courteous to other people.
Any true atheist/nonbeliever (or other fancy words for it) that isn't a 12 year old looking for attention or a way to disrupt the general public focuses on their self (or close few family/relatives) and common decency.
Otherwise your an anarchist. Many people get that confused.
I love the science theory where scientific explanation or theory come into play. AKA the sky is blue because of the gas in the atmosphere... not because a random god decided to make it that way.
I like the idea of why people think god exist and i could spend hours on the subject but i think i'll leave it at that.
Remora.Dubont
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2010-03-19 23:49:30
Ragnarok.Psyence said: @Dubont
what you forget is that, just like God, you can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist... you just asume he doesn't because... well... you've got to admit that it's very unlikely that he would... lol >.>
we don't believe in Santa Claus because we think the idea of a man dropping presents in chimneys is ridiculous as we grow up...
somehow, we can't get rid of believing in the other old man who hears everyone murmuring at once and watches over us...
santa claus?? ridiculous... the old man? that I get... see my point?
But its not the "idea vs age" thing that finally causes people to stop believing. It is the proof. The hard evidence. The moment that the child sees his parents putting presents under the tree, the child's dreams are crushed. It is that instant that everything the child believing is swept under a rug and forgotten. Like I said, the same goes for the religion. Its not the idea, its the proof or lack there of that causes people to believe or disbelieve most of the time
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1085
By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:50:08
Siren.Clinpachi said: I don't personally believe in god but i understand the importance of religion in other people's lives.
Some people want to believe they are doing good with their life for a greater cause. They want to think they will be taken care of in the afterlife.
I don't see anything wrong with that.
I do have a problem with people trying to preach at me or try to persuade me into their religion.
I don't have issues with my life and take things as they come head on. I always strive to be a decent human being, open doors for people or at least hold them. I do what's right or courteous to other people.
Any true atheist/nonbeliever(or other fancy words for it)that isn't a 12 year old looking for attention or a way to disrupt the general public focuses on their self and common decency.
Otherwise your an anarchist. Many people get that confused.
I love the science theory where scientific explanation or theory come into play. AKA the sky is blue because of the gas in the atmosphere... not because a random god decided to make it that way.
I like the idea of why people think god exist and i could spend hours on the subject but i think i'll leave it at that.
/cheer ^-^ ~ I like you, you seem to be very level headed ^^
[+]
Caitsith.Blurr
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 786
By Caitsith.Blurr 2010-03-19 23:50:35
Ragnarok.Psyence said: @Dubont
what you forget is that, just like God, you can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist... you just asume he doesn't because... well... you've got to admit that it's very unlikely that he would... lol >.>
we don't believe in Santa Claus because we think the idea of a man dropping presents in chimneys is ridiculous as we grow up...
somehow, we can't get rid of believing in the other old man who hears everyone murmuring at once and watches over us...
santa clause?? ridiculous... the old man? that I get...
we dont believe in santa because we know its a physical impossibility dropping off gifts to all the good kids of the world in 1 night. i doubt even in light speed would it be possible.. not to mention all the cold starving kids of the world still wake up cold and starving christmas morning.
also, and im not contributing to one side or the other, just pointing out its a little more understandable to at least question the existence of a god or gods or w/e.. seeing as no one has ever in the history of history, been able to die, explore the afterlife (if there is one), and come back to report. everything after death that isnt life here is a complete unknown
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-03-19 23:50:44
Asura.Israfel said: @Chaos XD np dude! NP lol! You can quote me on saying this tho: Me said: As an Christian Atheist I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others
Because it affects my life. That's the reason it bothers me. I wish for the demise of several organizations that I feel are destructive to me, my family, my friends and human evolution in general. Almost all countries in the world are ruled by religious people who, more than often, base their decisions on outdated beliefs rather than secular moral standards such as basic human rights, global awareness, tolerance towards difference and a genuine pursuit of peace.
That, my friend, is anything but reassuring.
Rationalists, those who chose, out of simple logic, not to believe in something supernatural, need to state their opinion, proudly and coherently. They need to have a place in society and politics, to be heard and to at least have a word on what the future's going to look like. Something as serious as the occupation of Iraq (close to 100000 have died in it) could probably have been avoided. If it wasn't for the fact that so many US voters based their vote on Bush's claim to have strong religious beliefs, rather than nonviolent ideologies, less people would be dead today.
Beliefs keep us from evolving because of what they are: Suppositions that were turned into artificial facts by irrational, although well intentioned people. The scientific approach goes in contradiction with the religious approach. I will show you that I have a baseball to prove that I own one. Instead, a religious person will dare you to prove that he doesn't have a baseball and your failing to demonstrate that he doesn't own one will make him feel justified.
Doubt, the very basis of knowledge: Doubt is the only way to keep our mind from falling into what I like to describe as "lazy mode". Doubt requires constant re-questioning of our assumptions and becomes harder as we grow old. We have to constantly remind ourselves that what we think we know... might be wrong.
Religions fundamentally discourage questioning; even when they pretend to do, they do it in a hypocritical way that discourages questioning even the relevance of believing. Oppositely, Science has, over the centuries, been re-evaluated from scratch, in the noble attempt to find some provable truths. Small truths, yes, but significant ones. The first scientists obviously believed in God; now, most don't.
|
|