Petition For A New Tank Job

Wow... You really are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. If a SAM is using Polearm on BOSSES, they're doing it way wrong... SAM polearm will never beat SAM GK on bosses. And as for your "Squishy" ***, It's on ***weak to piercing. GK for ***that isn't weak to piercing.

Wonder how good a sam would be w/ no haidate fulltiming domaruuuuuuuuuuuuuu etc etc.
In any good salvage run the mnk and sam are bouncing hate off each other. If that's not the case, get new mnks.
And holy crap don't think you know a job's capabilities inside and out when you haven't even seen a decently geared one.

I Don't beleave Hasso is better then a Black belt... + Subtel blow, + 12% haste +8 (I beleave) Str...

where Hasso is about 2-5 str no subtel blow and about 10% haste, * If i recall correctly*


Not only that, compareing a Monk Item, aganst a SAM JA. Really doesn't work You'd be amazed what 12% haste can do for a monk, ***. BB + Wally + Kitty pants + Swift (or V belt)And Fuma you got your self a 24% haste Build (5"wally" +4 "swift" +3 "fuma" +12 "BB")

if you have a V belt, and +1% haste, @_@''

You Basicly Cut MNK attack speed by 1/4th, And this isn't includeing Haste (15-16%) and Double March (14%?) Thats a Grand Tottal of 54% stackable haste (I think caps 50 right?)

VS A Sam, with Hasso (10~12% haste) Wally, kitty pants, Swift/V belt, dusk gloves (+1) and Fuma,. and same spells...

ok.. Perhaps you Get about the same amount of haste out of both.

but You allso have to take in to the account of the Delay of H2h Vs a Gk, or Lol Polearm,

So This is w/o any math what so ever,
Mnk attack speed: 1 round every 1.5-2, maybe 3seconds at most

Vs the 5-7 seconds for a Sam. =P



---- Yea go ahead and bash me >^^< ----

Um... you can't wear a swift/Speed/V belt AND a Black Belt at the same time >.>

Turban (5%) + BB (12%) + Fuma Sune-ate (3%) + Byakko's Haidate (5%) = 25%

A level 70 and above Samurai will gain a boost of +10 STR, +10 Accuracy, and +10% haste for melee attacks.

Black Belt
DEF: 7 STR +7 Haste +12%
"Subtle Blow" +5
Physical damage taken -5%
Lv.70 MNK

You can compare as you like.

In salvage situation, piercing weak or not, boss or not, if the MNK is bouncing hate with the SAM, get an other SAM.

omg seems like i hit ppl weak spot.

For real, seems like you dont even merit. Have you seen a mnk do more damage than a sam on merits? i sure as hell havent. (And i parse every single merit pt i do)

Do salvage bosses fit on the squishy category? If they are, sam should be using polearm there then. If they aren't then gk works.

Polearm isnt better than gk due the 25% damage bonus. It is better because penta thrust is the awesome multi hit weaponskill that gk fails to have. And the power of any multihit weaponskill comes from squishiness. Pole also has a delay that has decent tp gain (delays between 480-530) and sam can easily do 5 hit to ws it.

I've actually been discussing with my ls mates about them using pole on bosses, since they will have 2xminuet anyway to decrease tp feed. 2x minuet will hardly help gk, but polearms benefits greatly. And considering that instead of 6 hit with gk they will be doing 5 hit with pole, that will increase kill speed and decrease tp feed. If multihit ws feed the same tp of a single hit (which im not sure ).

EDIT: TY Yuffy! lol

now, what was this topic about? ah oh yeah a petition for a new tank job....

This is true on weak defense things. Thats why if a SAM in salvage for example or even in general (Nyzul, Einherjar, camping X or Y weak NMs) is only using Polearm on piercing weak mobs, he missed the point completely.

Nothing beats a SAM one shoting (or almost) any F1 mob in salvage, nothing, period.

Thats about the most HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE thing i think i have ever heard, and I have said some pretty stupid ***.

Lets squash this one

Hasso @ 70 give 10 str, yes. It also provides 10 acc. However, it only provides a 10% reduction in melee delay, which any sam or nin could tell you, IS NOT HASTE. It however does not count against your TP gain like dual wield delay would be.

12% haste will factor into not only your melee attacks but also your recasts on things like ... utsusemi... and dont count the damage reduction... >.>

Lets not forget the 50% increase in casting time and recast times of all spells, including the ninjitsu youre using to stay alive longer.

Please for the love of the gods do NOT forget that mnk is a DOT job, much like nin, with spikes of damage from ws's. Sam is a spike DD's with decent DoT. 2 very different jobs designed to do different things.

Use them in conjunction with one another to benefit one another and youre gonna be far better off.


Erm, yeah, a Rng/sam(or war) actually 1 shotting a F1 mob is better than a sam almost 1 shotting an F1 mob...

Haha, thanks. And nicely played Rumaha.

1. The Hasso information was taken from ffxiclopedia so i took it with a grain of salt to begin with. I should of listed the source. Oh well.

2. No one's remarks said anything about merit parties. Everyone knows SAMs will dominate there with little ease. SAMs will dominate Salvage mobs up til NMs and bosses where MNKs will win with DoT. It's a fairly proven fact. You guys apparently need some better MNKs.

3. Using polearms on bosses is the worst thing you could possible do. Even with 8/8 polearm skill and a buttload of accuracy, your Penta's will be doing ***damage compared to your higher GK skill. Sure you get a 5 hit build but when it takes 8 swings to actually get the TP to WS and your WS sucks, you basically defeat the point of the build. Also chariots do not fit the squishy mob category. But you go ahead and use your polearms and fail some more.

4. SVed double minuet hundred fist MNK will run away with hate to the point that a SAM will have a very hard time catching up if they even do.

Are you really telling me th

Are you telling me that you give cells first to RNG JUST to shine on first floor when you can have a job shine on every single floor of the event more than RNG will ever do? Please, i'm not talking about your wet dreams here, i'm talking about practical fact.

*** my slipping fingers.

As for the MNK comment, the answer is simple: get better SAMs. DoT is meaningless against a Penta or YGK spam, MNK turning mob happen very rarely and when it happens its not what i would call bounce as it lasts until you hit again which in a normal salvage group will happen before the MNK is hit.

I run with a full Usukane SAM with capped merits and some bad *** gear. Even he has a hard time taking and holding hate against me and I have no Usukane but do have good MNK gear. MNK's DoT outdoes SAM's spike damage over time. Just face the facts. SAM's can have their big epeen WSs but against bigger mobs in Salvage, MNK is going to win because of their sheer speed. They put up anywhere from 4 (minimum attacks in 2 attack rounds with Destroyers) to 10 attacks (possible maximum attacks in 2 attack rounds) before a SAM gets their 1-2 attacks off. Yes you do put up big numbers but MNKs speed + medium numbers will out do you. You may start with hate but you won't hold it.

If only there was some kind of Viking class... You know, like in FF3? Some sort of spike hate ability, like... like some way to PROVOKE a mob or something to keep it distracted.

And yeah, axes! They'd need to be good with axes. Maybe their weaponskills could be like, some sort of rush? Maybe an angry one? Some kind of RAGING RUSH.

Vikings go BERSERK, right? Maybe not using a greataxe, though. Maybe they just use one, and go on some sort of RAMPAGE.

Man, a Viking wearing like, a hauberk or something would be cool. Or maybe Ares? They'd look like some kind of STEEL CYCLONE in combat.

Edit: Oh, oh! And before they go into battle and unleash some kind of CALAMITY, maybe they let loose a WARCRY or something.

Man, yeah. Viking would be cool. Great idea, guys. Should have been in the game from day one.

I see what you did there!

I off-tank Salvage bosses with a 4/5 Usu BB monk with full offensive merits on my war/nin and always end up tanking the last 25%. Weird.

tl;dr

No offense but full usu SAM especially in salvage is FAR from being anything special, its rather poor actually.
I run with a MNK that basically has the best gear possible HQ included, only thing you cant see him wearing is relic, thats it. Wont comment on my gear but lets say its above average in many ways, he's being completely destroyed every run, as simple as that.

Keeping hate when you play SAM is something rather easy anyway since we all try to keep Overwhelm in our pocket (which mean you'll use voke rather often) so its not a good way to tell which job is destroying which, you have to parse (or just accept the reality when the guy takes 2k worth of damage and keep hate).

He has full Usukane. He doesn't full time it. As I said, he has some kick *** gear (Haichryu pants and the like.)

Must be doing something wrong then :( (or wrong food/buff? if any)

Treating anything you would consider using a specialist tank for as a merit mob is usually a pretty bad idea, and seems to be the prevalent mindset of most DD nowadays.

On BLM, if I were to Bliz IV say... Jailer of Love as soon as it was spawned like it was a Flan and tanked for a while with the Goliard set MDB, I wouldn't call into question the tanking ability of the PLD/RDM. In fact I'd probably be considered a bad BLM for doing so.

SAM/melee in general, however, seem to get a free ride in this regard nowadays and can Y/G/K/spam as often as they like, as if its a lvl 79 lolibri, then proclaim that MNK/Tankjob can't hold hate for ***... eh, double standard really.

No Tank job under any circumstances can ever 100% hold hate without the co-operation of the DD to some extent, be it sitting back on TP, TA, or just outright letting them pre-build VE/CE. If the MNK is going to be mitigating much more damage than you, and they should be; if time is permitting you should endeavour to leave it on them, adjusting your own output accordingly.

You don't get extra drops for killing it faster, and no-one cares if you win the parse on a Chariot, but let's not go into the futility of parsing fights where Hate/TP management is an issue...

I wasn't Saying Equipt them at the same time, I was adding them in to the list of Haste gear that Mnk & Sam Can use, lol I didn't Add up the Tottal of a V belt, Swift belt and black belt for the Grand Tottal, it was just Examples.

maybe i shoulda put it like

Wally - dusk - swift - Kitty pants - Fuma
Wally - dusk +1 - V belt - Kitty - Fuma (or dusk +1)
Wally - BB - kitty pants - fuma

but. like i said :D I was just listing possible gear in X slot. not Saying (pull a Lulu "FF10" and have Every belt on at once :P

Ok well either way, a MNK should be using black belt/brown belt > Speed/Velocious/Swift belts. Brown belt is still far superior and fairly cheap and Black belt obviously blows them all out of the water.

OH wise and powerful Yuffy, please, wilst thou decend from upon yon heavens to gift us wretched beings with the knowledge of what we're doing wrong?


Oh and as for "RNG JUST to shine on first floor" the last time i did SSR, i embarrassed 2 mnks and 3 sams throughout the entire run.

QFT

I think this tread got lost somewhere????

lol, no one said Armored Chocobos couldn't be usable in dungeons.
The jobs are already pretty balanced, it's the fact that support jobs exist. The single largest problem in the game stems from Utsusemi. Unless you're in an event like Dynamis, tanks are fairly unnecessary because everyone is invincible for upwards of 3 hits, which is usually enough time to kill the monster or have someone else take hate.

Except when the mobs spam AoE moves and everyone's shadows go down. They're far from invincible but it does mitigate damage enough to make the combo worthwhile.

Need to change thread name to derailed