Design Outside The Box

If SE makes their own brand of RMT, that will nip things in the bud as far as third party RMT raiding/ruining the game.

Can't do it too late either as people who already accomplished things the hard way would feel slighted if it suddenly became available to anyone who had access to mommy's credit card.

Casual gaming annoys me.

Micro transactions make so much money. When I had a brief period of not playing FFXI, I played Atlantica Online. You didn't need to use Micro-transactions to play that game, but not doing so made everything so slow. I mean they give you the items to start then take them away, meaning you want them again.


Well it's only £5.00 it's cheaper than FFXI online per month eh.

Then you realise you've bought 5 of these items and are paying way over the odds for a sub par game.

Couldn't agree more with that comic.

that was actually an amazing presentation lol.

You might agree with it, but the change is impossible to stop. :P

Great games don't make money anymore because our expectations have become too high and they cost too much to make now.

Make way for the "casual"!

Does anyone else hate the terms "casual" and "hardcore"? Calling anything I like hardcore makes me feel like a pretentious retard.

Instead I rather see HQ games get pumped out once in a blue moon by the big guns that have the balls and money to make something truly amazing instead of having dog ***coated with paint pumped out every week by EA.

I wouldn't see them going and giving "Real Life Points" for cash, but perhaps products, reward codes, coupons, etc. In that dice video, I totally see the world going in that direction, ***if someone gave me points to brush my teeth for another 3 min, *** I'd do it. Then go to my friends "DUDE I GOT MORE TEETH BRUSHING POINTS THAN YOU! YOUR MOUTH IS DISGUSTING, MINE IS AWESOME!" I think its human competitive nature.

Had to..

I guess what I'm saying is, your perspective on what's "new" is a bit warped from so many years of the same thing.

Let's use another analogy: wine.

There are several levels of wine aficionados. At the top, you have folks who sit there analyzing the tannin content between two regional French cabernets, and sitting around pretentiously musing about whether or not they detect a hint of currants. Most of us want to smack these people.

Under them you have the folks that know the difference between say, a cabernet and a syrah, but otherwise no more than that.

Then you have the folks that know there are white wines and red wines, and might accept some wine with dinner if it's offered, but otherwise probably aren't going to go out and buy any wine on their own.

Then you have the people who don't like wine at all.

The relationship is a pyramid -- the folks at the top are fewer than the folks at the bottom. While the folks at the top might be willing to pay more for wine on a per-person basis, the folks under them are infinitely more numerous and easier to sell to. In whiskey terms, you've all heard of Jack Daniels, but probably not Laphroaig.

Right now, the gaming industry is trapped trying to sell to that top group. Folks who sit on forums debating the finer mechanical differences between FF14's leveling system and FF11's. Or debating class balance versus crafting systems, etc. In actuality, 99% of the world sees every MMO as exactly the same with only minor differences: "a big multiplayer game with a character where I spend a lot of time fighting monsters to get experience and loot to fight bigger monsters with."

The trouble is, it's really hard to make those currant-detecting, tanning-content-judging wine aficionados happy. With every release, they want to see a noticeable improvement from the last. Yeah, they might spend a lot of money on your wine. There'll always be a market to sell to those folks. (At least I hope so, 'cuz I'm one of them!) But basing an entire business around it is risky as they tend to be a capricious and demanding customer base.

Aye, it's more profitable to appeal to the less picky masses than fret catering to the snobs that are overcritical and analyze everything. Kinda why WoW has been so successful over the years, however as I've mentioned before. I <3 FFXI because it has that inner substance I adore and seek in every game.

heres the real problem, too many game's are coming out that companys are saying are AAA. but in all truth they should be at most A games. ppl are not gonna pay $60 for a game that should be $40. the reason for this is companys like EA dont want to admit that every game they make isnt AAA quality and feel we should be paying AAA prices for crap games

I think when they say it's a AAA title they meant they put a ***ton of money into making it and most people interpret that as some sort of seal of quality.

To be honest... I have never seen the "AAA" thing being tossed around ever outside of this forum or other video game consumers talking on their forum of choice.

"AAA" is an industry term, not so much a consumer one.

Its definition has to do with dev/marketing budgets and team sizes. It's a subjective label, but generally, if your game costs $40M and a team of 250 people 2+ years to make, it's a AAA title. Whether or not it sucks has nothing to do with the definition.

Hmm. Come to think of it, ever since I've starting playing FFXI, I've bought considerably less games. Halo 3, DoW II, and a few Indie games off steam is it. I say we blame WoW for stalling sales.

Edit: And Gears of War II

Okay then I want to know. I have about 1.5 years of my BS in game design done and I start next month at ITT tech to finish it (its close by and its the best campus in america: San Bernadino, CA. plus online colleges are rip offs) and I want to know, should I even bother? I'm a good writer and a decent artist and more over an experienced musician. I chose game design because it's something I can live comfortably on and do with my basic god given talents. But if the industry may or may not go in a direction I want to follow what would you suggest I do? I've been approved for about 30k a year in grants and federal funding so would it be smarter to abandon ship and get my degree in english lit like I always dreamed? Look lets also not reply to this post with "Go with your hearts content" because *** my heart it won't make me 60k+ a year. What do I do?

No, don't change your major.

Look, most people in the gaming industry don't make as much as they could elsewhere. They do it because they love games. And if that's still the case for you, then stick with it. Just make sure your expectations are reasonable, and you don't go into it expecting a magical industry that somehow isn't bound by the laws of business.

Read up on things like the game salary survey, watch/listen to as many industry convention talks and keynotes as possible, and get a sense of where things are at and where they're going.

Find design blogs by other famous designers and read them carefully to try and get an idea of what the chatter around the industry is -- like any other, it tends to be a bit lemming-ish, with everyone rushing to the next big thing as soon as there's a breakthrough. You want to come out with not just a degree, but able to speak intelligently about how you're going to add value to wherever your potential employer is headed. While it's fun to sit around in an interview and wax nostalgic about how much we all liked FF6, it won't get you hired.

The industry isn't going to disappear -- it's just in a state of change. Our definition of what's a game and what isn't might be totally different 10 years from now, and being prepared for it and positioning yourself accordingly is going to be very important.

The gaming industry does make me wonder sometimes.

Let's take two games.

Fallout, easily defined as an "AAA" title will have had a lot of effort put into the development as well as the marketing and it sells for the standard price of 60$.(By the by, games are a lot more expensive in Europe than in the states, I noticed)

How is it possible that a movie-game sells for the exact same price?

You make some very sound points here Jaerik. I'll take that into consideration. For the sake of considering as well I might add my expectations and how much what pays and what industry may even be above the red by the time I graduate has to deal with me being a young dad to not just one child but soon another on the way. My family is here so to say and I have to be responsible and make my decisions carefully. I have always been the person who could not produce great art for something I don't love. I guess I kind of answered my own question there that I have to find out what it is I really want to do. I know I love the games out now and would love to work on epic franchises in their toddler stages like Mass Effect series and Dragon Age. I just face the fear of following this path and it leads me into making games I hate because every company has ditched traditional games to make these new social networking games with built in micro transactions. Basically I don't want to make a maplestory for Myspace so my Mom and crypt keeper looking mother in law can play together while they twitter. It's an honest fear no?

They figure "*** it, if they will pay that much for other games, try and see if it sells" and when it doesnt do so well because who in their right mind runs out on the streetdate for Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince for 360 when its released? They then say "*** it drop the price to 19.95 for limited time only, see if it sells" And when that doesnt work, you'll find it on the clearence endcap at your local Target electronics section. I know, I worked there. Best damn employee they had, not even the "Electronics Lead" knew a damn thing about the PS3 before it was released. Noobs.

Certainly an honest fear, and I don't begrudge you for it in the least. The industry is mature enough now that folks like yourself with kids and responsibilities is more the norm, not the exception. People will understand where you're coming from more than you likely expect.

That having been said, I think you're both right, and wrong, in some regards.

I don't like Farmville. I don't know of many game developers who do. It's dinky and shallow, and if I did work on it, I would be a little embarrassed to say so if it weren't for the fact it makes bucketfuls of cash. And then I'd still think twice.

Rather, it's caught people by surprise. I mean, 248M users, many of whom that pay? For something with crappy 1980's graphics and nothing more compelling than sitting there clicking on plots to harvest them? Jesus christ.

Farmville is not in itself the future of the industry. Don't worry. You will not be working on 8-bit farming simulators on Facebook for the rest of your life.

But what it does show, along with the success of things like the Wii (which traditional gamers all predicted would fail), is that there's a huge opportunity here for innovation by approaching gaming from another angle, and by targeting people who are traditionally not gamers. (Which, like the VG Cats comic above shows, are becoming a dwindling and increasingly bitter demographic.) The real exciting thing is going to be seeing how the worlds of AAA niche games and mass-appeal gaming merge.

Like the guy in the presentation said, imagine what would be possible if the immensely talented designers, artists, programmers, etc of Call of Duty 2 managed to merge with the ubiquity of something that has 248M users? Holy ***, man. Can you imagine the possibilities? Yeah, it's going to look different than the AAA games you grew up with. Yes, the industry is going to change. But don't you still want to have a hand in shaping that change?

and with that you hit a solid note with me and I'll maintain my major. I do have 1.5 of 3 years of it completed right? Might as well finish. Thanks for the help Jaerik ^^

1 Word, Diablo!!!! ^^
That game the crappiest graphics and Physics I've played since Super Mario, and it still kicks *** =D!
And best of all its free to play online, oh snap!

the way i avoid shitty new games is i really only buy old games anymore. just got pirates gold! for sega genesis yesterday, and i must say i spent more time playing that than any new game ive gotten in years

Old games ftw!

Madden, and NBA w/e games can all go burn... it's anoying its the same crap everytime, "OMFG I CAN SEE HIM SWEAT."

Is that supposed to be cool?
Goodness, I'm so happy I never caught up in the stupid Sports gaming business... Go play some dam sports in real life... kinda killin the purpose playin a video of something you can do in real life np o.O

No you can't plat GTA in real life cuz I know of you smart *** are gonna try to pull that one.

I blame all the kids/teenagers with ADD/ADHD who have 5 minute attention spans and live in a 'I want it now' culture.
AO is fun to play, but their 'item mall' is so over priced, I'd rather pay for FFXI or even EQ. Funny thing is, if you read the forums there are people who spend $400 trying to get the special/rare items.

I don't mind micro transactions for things like the extra theme levels in LittleBigPlanet, like the MGS pack and the PoTCB pack. $5 is for 6 levels and extra design toys is pretty cheap.


I fear developers will give up on making good games because all they need to do is sell a bunch of shiny epeen items.

This^ I do an internship at EA, there's been tons of budget meetings already this year concerning "future of games".

I have to wonder if the rise of MMOs has had a negative impact on non-online titles.

I started playing ffxi about a year ago. Since then, I've bought a grand total of one non-ffxi related game. When i'm spending time levelling on a game that isn't ffxi, i just end up feeling like i should be levelling my "real" character.

Of course, my experience probably isn't the norm.

Depends on the player, I stopped playing as much games since I got FFXI, but that's more due to addiction. Although a lot of people I know in FFXI are always playing other games at the same time. I'll probably not log on for a while when FF13 is out, MW2 dragged me away too.

And that's where you would be completely wrong.