Hello, Would You Be Willing To Help Settle A Bet?

Faiye, you're misunderstanding the meaning of increasing/decreasing returns. The value of x quantity of DA is worth less as your base level of DA increase, meaning that it has decreasing returns. Additional Haste is more valuable the more you have to begin with, so we say it has increasing returns. They're comparable from 0 base (barring the fact that DA can cause TP overflow, so it's actually slightly less valuable than advertised in its effect on total DoT), but at higher levels the difference is quite dramatic.

I haven't seen that formula before, so I'm not really sure what you're doing tbh.

Added haste
---------------
100 - total haste


Is what works.

So let's say ou have 10 haste, add 10 haste. your total haste is 20

10/(100-20) = 10/80 = 12.5% increase.

Some ppl do (added haste)/100-original haste (orginal being haste you had before adding), which gives you 10/(100-10) = 1/90 = 11.11% increase, which is incorrect.

Now lets go back to the world of not near capped haste please?

It's from Failure's blog ( http://ffximath.risen-guild.com/?p=18 ) is the specific post.

What else are you going to use? RDM BRD is the minimum support I would ever PT with, and march/march is miles better than march/minuet, that was assuming the SAM had average gear as well.

I have 21% haste in gear. Double march is the best song combo in merit pt. We already went over my point in hasso, I am fulltiming it. We have a mage (because our DNC is not healing, someone else is, right?) which means I have haste spell. The dnc is using their samba.

This is a very realistic amount of haste to have in a party with a mage dnc brd set up.

Let's review
21% (my gear)
10% (haste samba)
10% (hasso)
15% (haste)
20% (dual marches)

21 + 20 + 15 + 10 + 10 = 41 + 15 + 10 + 10 = 56 + 10 + 10 = 66 + 10 = 76% haste, which is the number I used in my calculation.

in any party I would have a DD dnc in, I will gain more benefit from using hasso than they would from full timing fully merited saber dance.

Yeah sorry not everyone is brd+rdm or gtfo. Especially if you have a dnc in the pt too.

If yo udon't have brd + rdm, the dnc is going to have to heal if the healer doesn't have ballads, which nulls this entire argument of DD dnc to begin with.

Edit: Unless you're claiming evoker's roll and that rdm + cor is much more common than having rdm + brd in a pt

Actually I can and have had to be the only mage in a pt as a rdm. So yeah. Hell I've had to do rdm+whm. And guess what not everone will be gtfo if they can't get there brd and rdm.

You haven't been the only mage in a party with everyone fulltiming DD and not full timeing /nin and/or seigan and like I said, if this is the case the dnc should contribute to healing, so taht the DDs CAN do this, so that scenario has already been covered as well.

Prove it.

Vegetto's got you over a barrel on this one. If it's RDM + DNC + DDx4 you're either looking at a bunch of defensive DDs (lol) or the DNC isn't focusing on DD (not the subject at hand). Either way, it's outside the scope of this discussion.

[ 1 / ( 1 – newhaste ) – 1 / ( 1 – oldhaste ) ] / [ 1 – ( 1 – oldhaste ) ]
[ 1 / ( 1 – 0.41 ) - 1 / ( 1 - 0.31 ) ] / [ 1 / (1 - 0.31 ) ]
[ 1 / ( 0.59 ) - 1 / ( 0.69 ) ] / [ 1 / ( 0.69 ) ]
[ (1.7) - (1.4) ] / [ (1.4) ]
[ (0.3) ] / [ (1.4) ]
[ ( 0.214 ) ]
Still a 21.4% increase per person using hasso over seigan taking off 20% from marches. And if you're RDM DNC DD DD DD DD that's a 85.6% increase total. (Assuming this formula is correct that is).

The only one that can prove that you CAN do it is you. I'm obviously not on your server so I can't come check for myself. Grab Kparser, it has "buffs by time". Show me a parse of you as rdm and 5 dds where it shows their hasso % as 100% and I'll shut up. If not, I'll go by my claim being more believable than your disagreeing with it.

Oh oh and if if we were rdm dnc dnc dnc dnc dnc that would be like 190% increase total!

I am now confused. :(

I have no clue what either of you are talking about.

He said he doesn't pt with brds all the time, I did the hasso increase for RDM DNC DD DD DD DD pt using Failure's formula (http://ffximath.risen-guild.com/?p=18) which I assume is correct.

Well you were kinda all over the place with it. For example, I gave numbers before and after haste before applying it to the forumla. You just gave the formula and plugged in everything w/o saying what anything was.


I'm not sure which numbers you're plugging in for what, but if you're comparing 41 to 31% haste, then either the formula he posted is wrong or you made a mistake plugging everything in.

It doesn't have to be that complicated. Simple formula

added haste/(100-total haste) is all you need.

10/(100-41) = 10/59 = 16.9% increase.

If you weren't comparing 31 and 41% haste though, idk what you were doing because you explained nothing.

Newhaste is the % of haste represented as a decimal, assuming 16% from gear + 15% from spell + 10% from haste samba + 10% from hasso it would be 51%, 0.51. Oldhaste is the haste prior to adding the additional haste, hasso in this case, represented as a decimal again, 0.41. The end is just the increase in swing rate I should say, since there shouldn't be any circumstances it's 50:50 tp:ws ratio.

Edit: And now I realize I can't count yay

[ 1 / ( 1 – 0.41 ) - 1 / ( 1 - 0.31 ) ] / [ 1 / (1 - 0.31 ) ]


so are you comparing 51 and 41% haste or 41 and 31? I don't see a .51 in there.



Edit:
from your link
He's comparing 0% to 25% haste

Added haste = 25%. Total haste = 25%

25/(100-25) = 25/75 = 33.3%

Exact same number, much less work/confusion.

That was 41 to 31, I realize now I forgot to factor in Haste Samba.

Comparing 41 to 31 you concluded "Still a 21.4%", which is incorrect. You messed up the arithmetic or something somewhere, because his formula does work, but takes more steps and leaves more room for error.

As you can see in my last post w/ his example, me and him got the same number, but for comparing 41 to 31% haste, me and you did not get the same number. His formula does work, just a lot more confusing, imo.

10/(100-41) = 16.9%, not 21.4

OP: NO.

I can't DD for ***... It takes me forever to kill stuff, but it also takes forever for me to be killed, unless I am outclassed. I am pretty gimpy though...

Well there is such a thing as 1 handed DDs that are /nin to being with (or lol are nin)

Lol it was doing ***like that which is why I retired rdm. That ***is way to much of a hassle and wears you out fast. But here since you are so found of math lets do a little of that.

So let's start with stating buffs that will be applied over and over in cycles. Haste for everyone. Refresh for yourself.

Everyone will get haste every 3 min you will do refresh and haste on yourself 7.5min. So 2 self buff cycles will be 5 pt haste cycles.

So in 30 min time (to line up buff cycles and possible convert) you will have casted 54 hastes and 4 refresh. Now I'm generally /sch so that is only gunna cost me 36mp per spell so I spent buffing about 2088 mp in 30min.

Now a decent rdm should have at least 1 if not 2 gear refresh, refresh spell and sanction. So he should at least be refreshing at 6 per tic. There are 20tics in a min so in 30 min he will have refreshed 3600mp.

That means every 30min I should net 1512 mp just from refresh assuming only 1 peice of refresh gear.

Now as a taru in my normal casting gear not even really geared specifically for support at about 950 mp/hp. And that's not even gearing for it. Could easily get more out of it if I'm just being a cure/buff ***. Now being /sch I get cool thing called regen2 which since your buff cycles are 7.5 min and convert is 10min you can easily slip a composure regen2 in without hurting your self buffs. That will give me 720 hp back for only 33 mp. Throw in a cure III for 42 mp right after so your not at some stupid low health and your looking at spending only 75mp to get back up to full after each convert or 225 in that 30min cycle.

So take 225 from that 1512 and we go down to 1287 but I potentially gain 950*3 so go up to 4137 in that time.

So I have 4137 mp in 30 min time to play around just curing your dumb ***. Let's assume cure IVs and that every 2min I penury 1 so 15 penurys. With light arts they cost a only 80 mp. Or 44 with penury.

So (4137-44*15)/80= 43.46 non penury cures for a total of 68 cure IVs. Of course this doesn't take into account /schs conserve mp or any conserve mp gear which I will be wearing. Or a 2nd peice of refresh gear which I wont be wearing.

Now assuming only ok amounts of mnd and only 10% cure potency those cure IVs should do about 430

So 430*43/30=616.33 hp cured a min.

Frankly I don't really see that happening as fast as 5 DDs will wreck xp mobs. And even at that while cure IV is only curing 5.4hp/mp judicial use of regen II will cut that a bit with it being almost 7.3hp/mp

@Veg Hmm, the only time I could get the end values to be the same is when you're going from 0 haste to x amount of haste.

Stopping yo uhere. your party of DD/nins DOES NOT include my scenario of you healing a pt of full hasso DDs w/o them having to revert to seigan, so your party of /nins is irrelevant to anything I've said.

Yeah I merely suggested it as a possiblity and it has nothing to do with the rest of what I wrote. Nice try though

Going back to Failure's page.25/(100-50) = 25/50 = 50% increase. Him and I match again, even when not starting at 0. I think you're just plugging in something incorrectly.

Huh? You go from 15 mins to 30 mins everywhere else.