Denali Bonnet Vs. Walahra Turban (for DD)

Purely based on damage, I think it's safe to assume that 1% haste > +3 attack (right?).

However, as all good DD know, sometimes you pull hate, if only for a moment, and the mob swings at you. Clearly, in that situation, Denali's defense benefits are pretty big. If you're dead, DoT tends to go down ...

So what should I be doing? Take a few endgame monk DD (non-chi) situations: birds merit, Kirin Zerg, sea/sky/limbus farming (non-god).

I've essentially just used denali for all DD situations in the last year, but now I'm thinking maybe that's not quite the right call. I now only use turban when I'm expecting to tank and need every drop of shadow speed, like Salvage or JoFaith.

If you are a DD you should have some type of defense if you are going to be pulling hate whether it be Third Eye or Utsusemi. If you are relying on Denali Bonnet to save you something is wrong.

More haste= more shadows ready when you need them. On top of that, most things shouldn't be living long enough to do any kind of damage to kill a mnk before the mob is dead.

21 defense is not that much of a boost to your survivability. You'd be better off tossing the Bonnet and using Turban for anything involving Haste. If you're that worried about dying, make a PDT set (Arhat head and body, for example) that you can swap into when the ***really hits the fan. Finally, you're a MNK. Utsusemi and/or Counterstance where?

Denali Bonnet has two real uses:

1) Town gear.

2) TA headpiece for THF.

"Denali's defense benefits are pretty"
You should have counterstance up anyways. Any defense on denali is going to be non existent. As for the evasion, any mob that is strong enough to kill you, and you're not wearing a full blown evasion set (or even if you are), you will most likely have floored a 5% evasion rate anyways and not be dodging crap.

For DD purposes, 1 haste >>>>>>> 3 attack

The haste benefits your DoT AND your ws dmg. (because you swing more, get more tp, so you will ws more) while the attack on the bonnet only affects your DoT. Let's say 70% of your dmg is DoT and 30% is ws dmg. The attack applies to 70% of your damage where as the 1 haste applies to ALL of your damage.

Let's say you have 400 attack vs greater Colibri, which have 293 defense w/ dia II on and a .35 lv correlation for the lv 82 birds

((403/293)-.35)/((400/293)-.35) = 1.009% increase to damage. This increase only applies to 70% of your damage
1.009 x .7 = .7063% increase to your damage.

1 haste w/ 0% haste easily beats this. Assuming 0% haste
1/(100-1) = 1/99 = 1.01% increase

Now, let's say you have brown belt, fuma, kitty pants, and turban vs denali + haste and 1 march

8 + 3 + 5 + (5 vs 4) + 15 + 11 = 46 vs 47% haste

1/(100-47) = 1/53 = 1.89% increase to all of your damage.

now if you have a black belt or a 2nd march, the increase is going to be even larger (haste samba as well).

Denali is nothing but town gear. (this also applies to the body and legs)

Let me try to clarify a bit: Certainly, turban wins for the pure DD numbers, as Veg's #s show (thanks for the math, didn't want to do that!) I was already pretty sure about that, but that's not quite the question I'm asking here.

The question is that from time to time, you'll take mob hate. Although monk has a variety of defense things in their favor (utsusemi, counterstance, others), Denali is just one more tool to help stay alive. So the question comes down to - is whatever the defense bonus (actual def, eva, agi+) you get from Denali worth sacrificing that extra 1-2% of DoT output?

No, see my above post... Also, that defense doesn't even exist when Counterstance is up so it's a non-factor in many (all?) situations. 4 AGI isn't going to save you more often than 1% Haste would by any stretch of the imagination.

Actually Denali body and legs are quite good for Corsair's Quick Draw, since body has +10 AGI and legs have MAB. Head is good for TA and feet are the best (or was before last update) for BLU multi-hit spells.

Note where we are in the mnk forum. I was referring to mnk

Always love your math man, it's spot on. Have you ever thought about compiling the data of all the most frequently asked "whats better" questions, so people could see it and read what the needed, and you could just refer people there when questions are asked?

Nah, there's enough compilations out there, people never bother to read stickies across the other boards prior to asking questions. I don't think it'd do any good.

we learned very early on in life that 5 > 4

As for COR and THF though, Denali is NOT town gear lol. Except for the head, feet and hands... Body is yummy for TA on THF and rattk on COR. Legs are yummy for COR fulltime considering you don't have something better I suppose.

>> Oily Trousers <<
Denali Kecks are good for quick draw though, Nimue's Tights are also good for quick draw for that little extra "umf" if you dont need the macc/agi

but as for mmk, Walahra Turban only ^^

When you take hate, and worried about dieing, Ohat + eva build, denali hat is pointless in many cases but for show, if you are DD should be full haste as possible, 3att is not even gonna show. As for the others, it depends weither if you have access to the gear or havnt gotten it yet, like homan. DD shouldnt be around HNMs anyway BLM ONRY!!!!!!!

Anything that is strong enough to kill a mnk off in a party setting, eva is going to be rather pointless vs.

Only if you assume your healer is awake and paying attention. That assumption tends to get me killed on any job I'm on all too often lol

Even then, any mob that is going to kill you off that quickly, is most likely going to be something you can't solo on your own anyways, which means it's probably going to have capped acc on you. For example, I fulltime full usukane on mnk, and even popping dodge, I don't see things exp lv mobs or tougher missing me at all.

If you're in that bad of a situation, you'd be better off in a PDT build than an eva build, imo.

Never done it on mnk but on thf you need more evasion than dodge would provide to evade things that tough and since mnk is what only B+ in evasion I think probably need a bit more.

Though this is assuming different mobs then what the OP was talking about. Any mob that can drop a mnk from pulling hate for just a moment probably has capped acc no matter the job or gear lol. Not like there are many mobs I can think of off the top of my head that could drop a mnk in a moment that don't do it with AOE anyways lol.

Which was my point exactly. You're not going to get a respectable evade rate on anything over the level of an exp mob on mnk tbh, so going the eva route is going to be pretty much useless.

Meh my point is I can get an good enough evasion rate on thf with only about +50 to keep blink up vs VTs pretty damn easy and that was when I had like 70 parrying and my evasion wasn't even capped. Mnk only has 20 less base evasion and can get a good 100+ in gear not to mention 30 from dodge. So should be able to evade ITs going all out. Maybe not crazy NMs and such but still.

So no reason not to have all out evasion while shadows are up haste while casting Ni and PDT def/vit +counter gaurd whatever while they down or casting ichi. If nothing else your dps will go down allowing someone else to take hate easier lol

Mnk doesn't have several traits of evasion bonus.

LOl but pup does /facepalm.

Meh so you +100 evasion (You'd need it lol)instead !!! Do eet! Still even bringing evasion rate from 5 to say even something lame like 25% while shadows up I would think would be worth it soloing or low man stuffs. Probably wouldn't even bother in a real pt situation but meh.

I have an evasion set up, as I'm an avid soloer, but it has absolutely 0 use in a party situation really. Besides nin is subbed for a reason. It's not hard to deal with your hate. Just use your shadows. Anything that I have taken hate on and probably did not want to be tanking, is something that I'd have 0 chance in hell of evading (JoL for example, I've pulled my share of hate on him.)

Sigh ... oh well. I guess I go back to turban. Thank you for all the input and for being (relatively) nice!

Signed,
A humbled monk

Then you suck. I'm sorry.

(Denali bonnet is just pet peeve of mine. I don't even find it attractive.)