Laphria Vs Hellheim

Id assume calad keeps pace just cause of constant odd/otd linked with torc spam. Drks on the slower end of tp gain so white dmg adds up to match the lower ws

It doesn't. White damage is like...20% of your damage, at best.

Also: Foenaria (talking St5 here) has 30% ODT, so it has similar white damage as well. So adding ~10% extra on 20% of your damage adds ~2% to your overall DPS. This isn't quite how the math maths, but either way...it's not a significant increase to your DPS.

When comparing 50% ODT to 0% ODT, sure it's not TOTALLY terrible, but comparing 30% ODT (which doesn't require an AM3 by the way) to 50% ODT, it's not going to make up for it.

That's my experience too as a Caladbolg DRK vs Foenaria DRKs in the same event with the same buffs. Origin is just better (they could have better gear/know how to gear better, but I don't think that would explain the gap in WS damage that can be easily eyeballed)

it sure isn't lol

Eyeball is not a good test. My WS avg during a recent Limbus run was 5k dmg higher as a Stage 4 Foenaria vs a Stage 5, but he had 25 more WS than me in Apollyon due to severe lag. He was also ML50 vs my ML34. Both Hoxne Ampulla and same gear/Nyame rank. Now, I probably was holding TP higher and maybe he was WSing at 1k for speed, so it could be any number of factors between the two that translates to the difference in damage. And this was comparing the same weapon and job. So with eyeballing Origin vs Torcleaver, it's not always going to be clearly obvious which WS is stronger just from looking at a log. From my personal experience, I haven't noticed a significant bump in damage between Origin and Torcleaver, but I would have to pay closer attention to it next time I use Caladbolg (which I rarely do anymore).

As another example of eyeballing and anecdotes, I've done a few Limbus runs with a Torcleaver DRK at I119 and he cannot 2shot any mob, ever, with 2 Torcleavers. Meanwhile, I always 2shot with 2 Origins (usually 1k and ~1600). This makes a significant difference in killspeed because 3 WS (or 2 WS and a ton of sitting around doing white damage) takes a hell of a lot longer than 2 WS.

If someone wants to put together some test data and share it, I'd love to see it, but IME Torcleaver's damage pales in comparison to Origin. I've been using Torcleaver for years and Origin is in another league.

I agree with this. Calad is still s strong option but Foenaria and Helhime seam to pull ahead pretty consistently. I dont get in the weeds technically like you guys do but comparisons in the parse on all 3 are consistently showing Helhime > Foenaria > Caladbold. Foenaria also consistently ranks behind helhime by a small but noticeable ammount as I think it should with Foenaria being such an epic utility weapon.

Definitely not saying Caladbolg isn't deserving of being in the conversation. Its still not vastly behind the primes in my experience but Torcleaver is alittle weaker and I think the lack of accuracy on it also dosent do it any favors in comparison.

No disagreement there. Would love to see some controlled tests.

Yeah. Wish it had some accuracy in its augments.