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Limbus 2025
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1561
By Asura.Toralin 2026-07-13 07:14:45
Which party composition do you guys think clears climbs faster? Rdm brd cor 3 DDs or rdm brd cor 2 DDs and geo
BRD COR RDM GEO(Main Healer) x2 DD is by far the fastest way to climb limbus. GEO increases the damage by a lot
It's exactly what Milk said for 135. Preference to PRIME DD (even the Japanese players ask me if I'm prime), though it's not a requirement (I use Naegling/Maxentius on RDM). GEO is needed to cap attack when SV songs drop and probably even during. But it's very fast and effective.
I was running BRD COR RDM(emergency heal) GEO(healer) WAR+SAM. Then switched dropped the RDM for 2nd bard,run 1x brd/nin and 1x brd/whm. aria, 10 songs, much faster, SAM/DRG doing 75-80k WS now up from 50k. can really start stacking PDL
Songs:
bard 1
HM+March
Aria
Minne5
Minne4
bard 2
minuet5/4/3/2
herc etude
2nd bard /whm for emergency heals/erase etc
Chaos/Sam+ fury/frailty
Other nice benefit is with 2 bards sleeping you pickup all the scragglers on the really large pulls it seems
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 935
By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-07-13 07:35:57
Your dropping RDM, whom does a POWERHOSUE of DPS, well above the COR, whom should be well above the BRD... for a 2nd BRD.
Effectively your 2nd bard is only adding TWO songs. Herc Etude, and Minuet 2. And you're wanting us to believe that Herc Etude and Minuet 2 bring your average WS's from 50k to 80k?
That's simply nonsense
On top of that, you're having the BRD sub WHM and effectively not be a DPS at all, because... reasons? Your GEO cant handle cures?
--
The only benefit would be... double Soul Voice uptime if the 2 Bards swap pallets and keep the stronger songs SV'd, but that would simply mean that the Herc etude and Minuet 2 are FULL time not SV'd, which further makes me not believe that you're netting such a big jump off 115 atk? 172 if you marcato it, and 24 STR?
---
I mean no disrespect, but you cooked too hard and now the meal is burnt. Sometimes theorycrafting goes too far
Given the option of your comp, I'd rather drop a DD for a 2nd COR to double cut and double wild card the brd, get 4 rolls (miser + w/e), and keep the RDM
And I still think that'd be worse than the standard 2x DD (drg/sam/war/kclubrng) COR/BRD/RDM/GEOheal
In fact, if you really wanted to get into the weeds, a stronger comp would likely be adding a 7th member, and outside partying the GEO whom only does mob focused GEOmancy rather than buff GEOmancy.. Frailty is doing all the legwork anyway.
Add a 3rd DD, or Blue Mage to CC + Tenebral Crush everything, and "emergency heals" or w/e, and have the Geo alone in outside party. You'll have to kill 1 more mob per floor and likely do it all faster since you're much more likely to 2 shot everything on all the DDs w/ the added def down.
It's all an argument of diminishing returns. If your DD's dont precisely kill things and leave them at like 10% for example, it's inefficient and any shift one way or the other will be negligible
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-07-13 07:40:36
What's you're definition of "much faster"? Total run time? One primary DD can only do so much DPS sure to GCD and auto target etc.
Also, in my experience, there's almost no need for "emergency heals" with a single GEO spamming curaga (Raetic Rod is a plus). You get healed every floor. Panaceas is costly, so -na does help though.
-edit oh I wrote that wrong, you dropped RDM not a DD. Actually, you did drop a DD then, so yeah. What's your total run time?
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1561
By Asura.Toralin 2026-07-13 09:33:09
Your dropping RDM, whom does a POWERHOSUE of DPS, well above the COR, whom should be well above the BRD... for a 2nd BRD.
Effectively your 2nd bard is only adding TWO songs. Herc Etude, and Minuet 2. And you're wanting us to believe that Herc Etude and Minuet 2 bring your average WS's from 50k to 80k?
That's simply nonsense
On top of that, you're having the BRD sub WHM and effectively not be a DPS at all, because... reasons? Your GEO cant handle cures?
--
The only benefit would be... double Soul Voice uptime if the 2 Bards swap pallets and keep the stronger songs SV'd, but that would simply mean that the Herc etude and Minuet 2 are FULL time not SV'd, which further makes me not believe that you're netting such a big jump off 115 atk? 172 if you marcato it, and 24 STR?
---
I mean no disrespect, but you cooked too hard and now the meal is burnt. Sometimes theorycrafting goes too far
Given the option of your comp, I'd rather drop a DD for a 2nd COR to double cut and double wild card the brd, get 4 rolls (miser + w/e), and keep the RDM
And I still think that'd be worse than the standard 2x DD (drg/sam/war/kclubrng) COR/BRD/RDM/GEOheal
In fact, if you really wanted to get into the weeds, a stronger comp would likely be adding a 7th member, and outside partying the GEO whom only does mob focused GEOmancy rather than buff GEOmancy.. Frailty is doing all the legwork anyway.
Add a 3rd DD, or Blue Mage to CC + Tenebral Crush everything, and "emergency heals" or w/e, and have the Geo alone in outside party. You'll have to kill 1 more mob per floor and likely do it all faster since you're much more likely to 2 shot everything on all the DDs w/ the added def down.
It's all an argument of diminishing returns. If your DD's dont precisely kill things and leave them at like 10% for example, it's inefficient and any shift one way or the other will be negligible
Ive done hundreds of climbs with RDM, so I have a direct comparision, its not THEORY crafting. It sped up my runs by several minutes.
you can sit there and come up with your wall of text all you want, it sped up my times by 4-5 minutes. shrug, all chars WS average up, alliance DPS up. brd/whm just for emergency cures, i think i mentioned that..
with 4 climbs thats saving me 15-20 min per zone. you can call *** all you want, thats my results. I clear faster with a 2nd bard than a RDM. I never found my RDM doing all that DPS you mentioned. phal2/refresh3/haste2/dia3 each mob,emergency cure4 the DPS was around COR and BRD.
my second bard is adding Aria.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1561
By Asura.Toralin 2026-07-13 09:38:30
What's you're definition of "much faster"? Total run time? One primary DD can only do so much DPS sure to GCD and auto target etc.
Also, in my experience, there's almost no need for "emergency heals" with a single GEO spamming curaga (Raetic Rod is a plus). You get healed every floor. Panaceas is costly, so -na does help though.
-edit oh I wrote that wrong, you dropped RDM not a DD. Actually, you did drop a DD then, so yeah. What's your total run time?
I dont know that total run time is relevant becasuse everyone plays differently, with the new temenos setup, my first go was 27 min, wasnt use to the floors and stopped and killed ITG 3x. I have tried many different setups, and 2x brd has been faster for me. I think temenos could be much faster. I dont disagree taking away the /whm on the brd would increase it even more. The geo isnt really ideally geared. and I would rather go a touch slower than take a death and lose 5 minutes.
I have tried
WAR/SAM/RDM/COR/BRD/WHM
WAR/SAM/RDM/COR/BRD/GEO
WAR/SAM/BRD/COR/BRD/GEO
I am considering trying to move the savage war out for foenaria drk, but still enjoying the double bard for now.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1070
By Asura.Melliny 2026-07-13 09:42:31
I think you may be in a unique situation Toralin. I don’t know you, nor any of your group, and I’m not saying you aren’t getting the results you claim. But for the majority of the player base, myself included, Dex’s post is spot on. My fastest runs are always with 1 dd, two cors (Sam, chaos, fighters, misers) bard geo rdm. The 2 dd, bard cor rdm geo setup isn’t much different, only a couple minutes behind on average. I’ve joined 3 dd,bard, cor, healer setups and that’s where things get noticeably slower. A second cor is universally better than a second bard. And I’m pretty sure if I asked anybody I know who runs limbus with me in any capacity they would agree with that.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1561
By Asura.Toralin 2026-07-13 09:44:20
I think you may be in a unique situation Toralin.
I agree we are probably comparing apples to oranges with how I am doing limbus, this maybe not be the right 'forum' for the convo, I have not tried a double COR. I thought about dropping my SAM for a COR but my SAM leads my DPS by quite a bit over my WAR. but maybe the 2nd set of rolls would bring everyone else up and counter balance that. althought losing the 100% job bonus on the SAM roll. I will give it a try.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-07-13 12:18:48
What's you're definition of "much faster"? Total run time? One primary DD can only do so much DPS sure to GCD and auto target etc.
Also, in my experience, there's almost no need for "emergency heals" with a single GEO spamming curaga (Raetic Rod is a plus). You get healed every floor. Panaceas is costly, so -na does help though.
-edit oh I wrote that wrong, you dropped RDM not a DD. Actually, you did drop a DD then, so yeah. What's your total run time?
I dont know that total run time is relevant
It's relevant because you brought up how much faster it was in speeding up your runs. That's important information so that we can understand the full context. Understanding how well your group performs and at what content level is good to know since not all groups play it the same way.
Also, because you say things like this:
Quote: The geo isnt really ideally geared. and I would rather go a touch slower than take a death and lose 5 minutes.
And this:
Quote: I clear faster with a 2nd bard than a RDM. I never found my RDM doing all that DPS you mentioned. phal2/refresh3/haste2/dia3 each mob,emergency cure4 the DPS was around COR and BRD.
These statements suggest your group probably isn't optimized, which is totally fine and not a knock at all. A top RDM can't reasonably be behind COR or anywhere near BRD because RDM has access to the same TP bonus/DW/attack buffs and Naegling/Savage Blade, but RDM has Temper II (Hoxne), which are huge melee phase buffs. RDM also has Maxentius and Black Halo for blunt weak monsters (pots and skeletons) Also, using dia3 every mob is a waste, because you should already be at attack cap inside geomancy bubbles. Unless it's for pulling. Assuming a max geared RDM, he will normally do right under your prime DDs. After buffs, you really only need to maintain haste for the most part, even on 135. RDM should be pushing DPS as much as possible, otherwise why bring it in the first place? It's not there to heal, since you get healed every floor. It's there to DD and haste, that's really the purpose of it in groups. If your RDM isn't doing that, swapping it is going to be better in your case.
Now none of this matters if your group isn't necessarily at this level of production, but understanding why Dex responded the way he did is important. Comparing your example to his might not be understood unless you explain first how your group is set up. Because adding a second Bard should not improve a high performing group to the degree yours was improved. But once the context was explained, it makes (a little) more sense. Don't think Dex was calling you a liar, just not understanding how you were doing your runs.
By Dodik 2026-07-13 12:40:28
TP bonus rdm with maxed temper2 is a machine, and should be higher dps than cor all things being equal.
If brd is out-dpsing either rdm or cor, that's probably a gear issue with the rdm and cor than brd being better.
Which is fine, means can optimise both jobs a lot more.
Melee dps wise for support: rdm > cor > brd > geo.
Rdm and cor are pretty close though, ime.
Discounting ampula cause limbus climbs are not a place where that's worth using, imo. Your gil your choice.
Since geo is lowest dps, they should pick up healing duties and let the other supports focus on swinging real hard.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1561
By Asura.Toralin 2026-07-13 12:56:46
I TP bonus rdm with maxed temper2 is a machine, and should be higher dps than cor all things being equal.
If brd is out-dpsing either rdm or cor, that's probably a gear issue with the rdm and cor than brd being better.
Which is fine, means can optimise both jobs a lot more.
Melee dps wise for support: rdm > cor > brd > geo.
Rdm and cor are pretty close though, ime.
Discounting ampula cause limbus climbs are not a place where that's worth using, imo. Your gil your choice.
Since geo is lowest dps, they should pick up healing duties and let the other supports focus on swinging real hard. I guess ill re-visit some of my RDM gear. I had my rdm putting refresh on everyone who is savaging just for an extra naegling buff. worth it? when is enough buffs to stop getting gains
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-07-13 13:02:55
The Naegling attack bonus for buffs is essentially zero when you have songs, rolls and bubbles capping your attack.
[+]
By Dodik 2026-07-13 14:21:51
Another thing is rdm can skip dia3 on every mob if your attack is already capped with bubbles.
Just buffs and dps.
I didn't see a thread dedicated to new-new Limbus so here's one with some findings. I’ve continued to edit this post with new discoveries made throughout the thread.
For entrance and zone info, really the SE post is best:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/62862-June-10-2025-%28JST%29-Version-Update?p=667175&viewfull=1#post667175
Obtaining the Key Items / Units
Kill mobs to fill the bar in the upper left. Seems to take 6-15+ mobs per floor, this increases based on the chosen mob level and number of people in your party. You continue to get units as long as you want to sit there and keep killing and refill the bar, but at half the rate. Whether this is comparable to the units gained by continuing to move floors and finishing the event to get the chest bonus is up a function of your personal kill speed and group size.
Each Temporary KI looks like "Apollyon SE #1 data", and you get 1 per floor. You keep them until you open a chest and then they are all lost. You get a KI for filling up the bar at the top of the screen on each floor. I didn't count but I think it requires like 10 mobs per floor (this apparently varies by level choice). Once you get a KI, you should get to keep it even if you leave Limbus. You would lose any progress on any un-completed floors, but this is like 6-10 kills so no biggie.
You can enter any section / floor at any time. You don't need to go in any type of order or "climb" if you're missing one of the upper KIs from a run that got interrupted.
Once you choose a level (119-130), I think you need to keep that level choice until you open a chest. If you adjust it after getting some KIs, you might lose them. The NPC dialogue isn't too clear on this.
There were no direct drops from mobs, of any kind.
Mob Details
All the mobs seem to have pretty serious DT, probably 50% (confirm by Brixy as 50%, per Air Knife expected enspell dmg). But they aren't hard. They hit like 130s. AoE/Cleaving is extremely nerfed.
Pulling mobs is weird. Any initial spell cast before initial aggro / dynamic level adjustment may land, but will not remain on the mob. You will not see a message to reflect this.
If you pull with silence (while it's un-aggroed), it appears the silence instantly wears without any message, likely due to the dynamic-level adjustment which happens as soon as you aggro (credit to Moonlightagb for this theory, I think it's correct). Silencing twice is probably needed. This doesn't matter much in a party, but if you're solo and mob density is high this effect could be pretty annoying. Other examples later verified by others: If you pull with Immanence, the skill chain will not complete. If you pull with Dia, you can sleep right after.
Mob respawn is on the order of a few minutes but I was pretty lonely this morning. I had one floor with a couple groups and it felt faster, might be dynamic spawn rate.
Aside from the initial-aggro weirdness, everything can be debuffed and slept as expected. Sneak/invis work fine, but true aggro mobs remain like Imps and such.
Getting the goods
In order for the chest to open, you need to finish all of the zone, not just one section. So Apollyon zone is 18 KIs, Temenos zone should be 25 KIs. If the chest says "it won't open", you need more KIs. The chests are located at the exit of each "top floor" in each section. However, you can only open a chest once you have finished all the sections (NW,NE,SW,SE,etc).
After getting all KIs in Apollyon, each character had earned:
About 4000 units from killing mobs and climbing floors
3000 units from finding a shiny ??? on the ground and clicking it
3000 units (one character in the party got 5000 units, no idea why) directly from the chest
So each character of a 6-person party left a ~90 minute run with 10-12k units. EP was ~15k/hr, but this is ML50s fighting level 130s. Maybe it's better if you're lower.
My initial limit on Apollyon units was 30,000. After I opened the chest, that increased to 33,000. It looks to increase 3000 more with each chest open.
Apollyon Units are used to upgrade AF pieces to +4.
Temenos Units are used to upgrade relic pieces to +4.
The upgrade costs are:
Head: 20k units
Body: 30k units
Hands: 15k units
Legs: 25k units
Feet: 10k units
Once I got to 10k units, the furnace did allow me to trade a foot piece, though I didn't choose to complete the process. Trading any other slot did nothing.
I did get the title Apollyon Razer, which I think is just the same as the old title lol
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