Controller Vs. Keyboard, LFG...

Let's discuss:

1.) Do controller players make terrible DNCs?
2.) All things equal: Is any job at a slight (real or just perceived) disadvantage by using a controller vs a keyboard?

When comparing, let's assume the same level of modifications in both controller and keyboard situation, i.e. LUAs, macros, controller programs, etc. Please state those modifications are.

Of course, if you have a strong opinion, in your Controller or Keyboard play-style, please explain why.

I'd argue controller players are far better players majority of the time.

Reason being XI is a controller-first game and is quicker to play with one.

As an example, switching targets while engaged.

Keyboard: Press enter on switch target, press tab, press either tab or shift tab to go right or left, enter to select. Two presses to switch, two keys simultaneously for going left, enter.

Controller: X on switch target, left or right to switch to left or right mob, X to select. Three presses. You get to choose immediately whether to go left or right and don't need multiple key presses. Faster switches.

I would generally say that keyboard is superior to controller for any game given a certain level of muscle memory and customization, because it has exponentially more available combinations.

For FFXI specifically, controller is seemingly much worse for vanilla players because the macro system is inherently slower than input speed. If you're using a crossbar addon so that you can access any macro as quickly as you can hit 2 buttons, that becomes less relevant. But, it doesn't actually matter much because FFXI's APM are so low that you can have your next ability/spell ready before the server allows you to use it even with very subpar reflexes.

Play with what you personally enjoy, I think the main argument for controller is that it allows for a relaxed posture and this doesn't really feel like the kind of competitive game that requires sitting upright and tryharding to me. If you take the time to set it up, you aren't going to be performing measurably differently.

Edit: If you bring multiboxing or other external things like crossreferencing wikis into it to raise APM, controller becomes much worse, very quickly. But, most people are very poor multiboxers anyway and just rely on bots and scripts.

IDK how DNC or any job factors in. You're either comfortable and organized on controller or keyboard, or your not.

I feel like controller players struggle to do things that are more suited to keyboard players, like typing /map, for example.


Come on, my guy. You're not even trying. That's like saying your cars transmission doesn't matter, you're either comfortable driving stick or you're not. How about Scholars? Controller or Keyboard? What jobs do you play?


Yes, this is what I'm getting at. I think the extra available combinations of key presses on a keyboard makes for a wider range of actions that would be faster than a controller...maybe? And yes, to your other point, we're just talking about single-boxing.

Funny Experience: I used to play with someone who multi-boxed with a different controller for each FFXI instance. One time, during Dyna-D, they picked up the controller of their WHM by mistake and accidentally Teleport-Holla'ed the whole party. (It was the DD party, back when Dyna-D needed a tank party and a DD party). Good times.

My experience has always been it was significantly better for targeting players with keyboard. (f keys) and typing spells so mages were keyboard. Healing with controller is, very unpleasant.

But melee aside from lack of an f8 key, controller worked better. Assuming im just hitting L2+X over and over for 1 ws anyway.

Dancer is a pain in the *** no matter how you slice it. Too many actions per minute within too many submenus.

If I'm using a controller I got my feet kicked up on the desk and I don't give a ***. If you find me actually using the keyboard you're getting more than the absolute minimum.

I've always played with controller, and honestly the only thing that sucks about it is that to communicate mid combat, you gotta put it down to pick your KB up.

Now when I originally started I didn't have a KB at all, and I'd use the virtual KB. Most people are so sedated when they play XI even back in the old days, maybe even especially then, that the slowness of my inputs to communicate were almost never an issue/never as big of an issue as I thought they were. I actually didn't/couldn't get a keyboard until I was already knee deep in an endgame Sky and HNM LS, and I actually requested a keyboard for my birthday that year.

As far as specifically Dancer goes? It feels fine on controller. All of your best dances have long cooldowns anyway, and it's really no different than going into a spell list, albeit with having to X into say, Sambas and then select.

But for anything you need to do often, you just make a macro, and then it's a non-issue anyway.

I think, as is often the case, Thorny has a really accurate take. For a single player, controller is fine, and there's no discernible difference. But anything that rises to the level of tech wizardry, you'll want to use keyboard because it allows you to control the game from outside of the game as well. Which has always been a bit too much for me.

Triangle (menu), up, x (enter). That's map.

Three key presses instead of five for '/map' + enter. If you want map again it's two presses, select option remains.

And you haven't taken your hands off movement, camera, or anything else.

I use a controller for everything and I've been playing since the PS2 release.

I have never used a keyboard for FFXI which is funny because I nearly play every other game with KB/mouse and if I don't have a controller for FFXI I am as good as dead weight if you expect me to perform at a high level.

I play BRD RDM BLM DNC THF MNK COR WAR

maybe its the background i come from, but over the years i have grown so sick of this type of debate....because to the final results, it just doesn't matter.

Its like the debate amongst trumpet players on mouthpiece design, or hand position technique amongst string players, or reed shape for us bassoonists...they're good discussions to have to gain others' takes and grow your knowledge base...but they're horrible debates because you can always find examples of premiere players who use either way.

Same story with keyboard vs controller- you're gonna find examples of great players who use either, its only about learning what works the best for You.

Now we know why Nick struggles with Bumba v25

Swap to keyboard and get that win so your goth queen will play with your joystick

IDK about Crossbar or whatever other addons are available for controller players but if you're trying to hit the equivalent of Ctrl+6 I think you Hold L2 (or R2 or whatever) then press Left, Left, Left, Left, Left, X. For a KB you hold Ctrl then press 6.

I get that for some jobs (melee) you can make this a bit more succinct because you're mostly only pressing one button, but it feels like hitting macros is a CHORE on controller.

See also: all other menus. Ctrl + J. Ctrl + M. Ctrl + W. What are the 2-button shortcuts for these on controller? Typing commands into the game, like anything you couldn't fit on your macro bar, changing lockstyles, changing macro books (when changing jobs), etc.

Everyone says "this game was designed for controller" because it came out on a PS2 first but...typing a macro on a virtual keyboard sucks ***. Sure, maybe they had a controller as the baseline, but they made major sacrifices to make it work.

When doing something action-intense like WHM, SCH, DNC, etc. I can't imagine trying to do it with a controller. There is a short delay for JA (Accession, Box Step, Reverse Flourish, etc.) but it is pretty damn short. You'd have to arrange all your "most important" macros close to each other and even then, you'd still end up with like...16 buttons to press instead of 8.

What about dancer specifically, would you think people playing on controller would struggle with?


Memory and muscle memory may have a bigger impact for me because I'm blind, but I would imagine that anyone who played long enough could develop the memory and muscle memory. If you have all HP unlocked, I could tell you how to menu to/from anywhere without being able to see the screen. Same goes for survival guide, spells and abilities that you might use, but not enough to macro, ect.

The thing with controllers is that everything needs preprogrammed ahead of time. So far every controller player I've known has struggled to do on-the-fly actions mid battle.

On macros - on controller the macro bar opens instantly (yes I know there's an addon), and the selection stays where you put it.

So if I do left button (ctrl) and go to 6, press that macro and do left button again, I'm already at 6.

So yes, you put macros that are related close to each other so you can hit them quickly, accession+whatever and so forth.

There are drawbacks, if one macro you want is on the other side of the bar you do need to go leftx6 or rightx6.

But you can leave the macro bar open by pressing left button - it doesn't go away when you release button - pre-select the one you want and hit it when you want it with one button.

On keyboard that's two buttons you need and if you want the macro bar open you need to hold ctrl/alt.

You can get used to either, just depends what you're used to. Most controller players have been playing that way since launch. 20 years of muscle memory is no joke.

Also I personally still use keyboard binds and shortcuts for some things, particularly spells without macros.

Job is irrelevant, I agree. Both have advantages and disadvantages, use whichever you're most comfortable with. For lots of menus, I prefer controller. Same for instances where you want to move the camera and do other actions at the same time. For lesser used actions, keyboard with shortcuts is faster than scrolling through a spell list.

There is also the argument against "This game was made for Controller!!" with the fact that the original PS2 version was sold with a keyboard included if memory serves....(I started on PC)

It was also much much slower paced and gearswapping wasnt even a consideration the devs had, atleast not to the extent players developed it into

“Controller players cant adapt on the fly”

Keyboard players cant adapt on the fly either.

Start mashing alt+f9 and fly past their dt set toggle
/war be like: //proci delete delte vokee enter //proovoke enter //provoke enter

Sams put up seigan just for their bot to reapply hasso because everything has to be automated

Someone gets charmed and the solution is to kill them because casing sleep/lullaby is too complicated

Point still stands.

Also you kill slow if you have time to switch target to PK the charmed player ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What does gearswapping have to do with controller or keyboard.

Maybe i should have used equipment swapping mid action, but devs didnt have any intention for that to be a thing on release iirc and was something the players figured out and used on their own and was one of the things that pushed me to KB beyond just having to set a controller down to type.

As early as CoP players who wanted to maximize their output were already getting close to the macro line limits on being able to swap and do an action in 1 press, especially so for mages if they didnt just idle in what meager fast cast was available to them.

So you either made some sacrifices on gear to keep it all in 1 macro, just made dedicated TP/WS/casting sets and then used whatever action separately, or you later just used windower macros from a text file that had no line limits, (or other 3rd party options that im unfamiliar with as i was only using windower) and it all continues from there.

I think a lot has to do with your personal preference, comfort and performance with either device.

I'm a controller player, though I must be a strange one because despite having lotsa neat macros, more often than not I just type stuff on the keyboard thanks to //shortcuts (I can type up to 10 characters per second, so I guess that makes me a fast typer?).

I personally prefer having a controller in hand, I prefer the feeling I get from moving the camera and the character and within the menus.

At the same time, I think that performance wise to me it feels like keyboard offers the peak of potential performance/reactions.

The difference in job is because of how many actions they need to do in succession.

There is a significant difference between say:

WAR - do your buffs before fighting, then hit nothing but WS macros for about 5 minutes straight. Maybe Warcry once every 5 minutes as well

DNC - CF Presto BS WS Trance WS Presto BS Tincture Icarus WS RF WS Presto QS RF WS NFR ....etc...in the first 20 seconds of a fight.

It was certainly a lot of 'work' considering most people needed 4 or 5 macros to swap between sets of gear to proc Sorc ring, but we had that kind of time back then. Back then, we didn't have access to all of the haste we have today, so it kinda gave you something to do while you were waiting on people to gain TP to skillchain or waiting on cooldowns due to lack of haste options.


I know back in the day you could make a macro like:

Line 1: /equip feet "Strider Boots"
Line 2: /equip feet "Dusk Boots +1"

If you press this macro while wearing TP feet, it would swap to movement speed and vice versa. This was basically the toggle I created when I was pulling for my group. It allows you to get mobs back to camp quickly without taking stray damage.

Always wondered if it worked for equipsets, but never tested it.

Car transmission matter for what? It's not exactly like you have to fast and furious or you can't make it to the grocery store. A good automatic will cover 99% of life, but that doesn't mean that stick shift isn't more fun for a lot of it and only mildly annoying in the worst traffic. You're still getting to that grocery store. FFXI is not a fast game all things considered. And for F1, which is definitely a fast 'game', they don't use stick. It's paddles and a steering wheel that looks like.....a controller.

My main is RDM. I play RDM/DNC as often as possible because it's my preferred job combo. Steps/sambas/waltz/flourishes are not some kind of challenge to smoothly weave so that you aren't wasting a bunch of time to global cooldown errors on top of casting. That's just practice and setup. If you can't do it on a keyboard or controller because of physical limitations, then I get it, but also buy something more tailored to your physical abilities so you can be comfortable. I'm just using a PS5 controller and if it was too big or small, I'd buy something else.

I also play SCH for Sortie and Segments when asked and it's not challenging at all on a controller if you took the time to rebind buttons and setup in a lua. I've been playing since launch, I loved ps2 with a controller as soon as it came out and when voice chat became common, even better. I've played pretty much exclusively on controller on all my jobs since abyssea and I also started using button mappers then. In the last 8 years I've expanded it to macro shortcuts defined in my lua and using functionality on my remapped buttons that understands the different between a press and a hold to get more flexibility on my buttons.

Example, quick press does Panacea, a hold does Remedy on every job I play on the same dedicated button because I decided that those are important for me to always have access to. For SCH, a button does accession on quick and perpetuance on hold in light arts and manifestation on quick and focalization on hold in dark arts. I press that button quickly and then press it again to hold it afterwards for the stratagems to go off back to back and i hit another button right by it to do regen V so that I can do long duration AoE regen V on the fly and regardless of what macro page I'm on because it's important and regularly used. Keyboard can go directly to other lines with key commands so that you can setup a very efficient path to specific macros, but controllers let you multitask if you set them up to do so. Both require you to have the muscle memory to pull off and the organization to make them useful.

Most recently, I got a computer with windows 11 on it. It doesn't allow you to directly alt tab between two instance of the game. Slowed me down a bunch, but lili and nif directed me to switch_focus. I bound it to the long press of my right stick. Short press is f8, long press is defined as send_command('bind ^f8 input //switch n'). So now I can swap between 2 characters without touching my keyboard. Keyboards can do the same thing by making a dedicated button, but if you aren't binding your keys then a .3 second hold on a controller button is a lot less work than hitting alt tab 3 times at minimum.

Other mastered jobs are WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG, DRG, SMN, BLU, GEO, and RUN. The only job I can complain about is GEO and that's because I never play it so my setup isn't well thought out and that's not what people ask me to bring to anything serious.

Anyone does DNC for Aminon on a controller?

Hey, I'll have you know I was Buffed guy at Mireu last night, and I had to hit my WSes for 30 minutes!

Well ok, I lied. It was only 15 minutes. I spent most of my time fighting Mireu terrorized and in my DT set.

I like to think I have a bit of unique experience on the topic as I've played for 5+ years on both. I started on controller with the PS2, played Keyboard on PC for like 6 years, then controller again when I came back in 2016. Personally for me, I prefer controller, I know I'm faster with a controller than with the keyboard. That being said I think keyboard likely wins in an unbiased comparison simply for a point made before; you have to put down your controller to type.

As you get used to it, it's not that bad, and if you're used to playing with a keyboard, you can just use the keyboard for a minute while you have your controller down. But that's the point, you're still relying on the keyboard.


Playing both personally this question doesn't make sense to me. Controller players don't make terrible anything, it's all just a different way to play. You may see it as "well they're not fast enough" or "they have too many buttons to press" or w/e, but I think that's just keyboard players not understanding how fast a controller player can move through their macros/menu.


I play SCH, as well as PLD RUN BRD NIN RDM WHM SMN DRG DRK WAR MNK THF COR and BST, I don't feel like any suffer because I play with a controller.

Since you mentioned the job specifically, Scholar I play with a controller and I also cast a lot from the menu. I have macros for common used buffs, cures, regen, and macros for skillchains. All free nuking, most enfeebling, and all bursting I do from the menu. I could type it out, I could make macros, but I don't think it matters. I've memorized where all the spells are in my list and I'm not missing any cast windows the way I play. If for some reason the game required multiple inputs in a 1 second window then there may be a different argument, but that's not the case here.


"Some players can't adapt on the fly"

There I fixed it. Has nothing to do with keyboard or controller, some people just suck. I've seen good and bad players using both.