Lili said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
15. Deodorize
Best way to passive-aggressively tell someone that they stink.
I like randomly trading people a single "Forgotten Touch"
Most Worthless Moves In FFXI?
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Most Worthless Moves In FFXI?
Asura.Melliny said: » Quote: 15. Deodorize This really is a pointless one isn't it. Does anything in the game detect by scent? A few mobs track by scent, but only a couple. And those mobs always track by sound too. When you run through the big Corse room in C area and they all start casting Ice Spikes one by one... you start to wonder huh Cerberus.Kylos said: » 14. Brave Hero Glenn He's useful as a good little frog buddy Cerberus.Kylos said: » What about Eagle Eye Shot and Mikage? Or Blaze Spikes and Shock Spikes? Btw, shock spikes is absolutely great for RDM main at least. I can pull entire ody camps/sortie rooms/omen floors with it that I can't do without!
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: » Aspir Samba is def useless, even at low levels What situation would you be using Aspir Samba over Drain or Haste Samba? Bear in mind, I'm pretty sure the target also has to have MP for Aspir Samba to do anything, its not a "convert dmg to mp". You'd probably restore more MP /healing for a few seconds vs what you'd get from Aspir Samba. So, as I said in my previous comments, it feels obsolete now. aspir samba is available at level 25, haste samba is 45, so for 20 levels it allowed people to gain back some Mp. back in the day, I'd always melee on summoner to contribute extra damage to targets, especially before the blood pact split. I did not personally sub dancer, but it was a nice way to get back to mp when I had a dancer in my party. I'm not suggesting it's the most useful ability in the game, but it's far from the most useless. And again, as per my last comment, I'm not considering abilities that become obsolete due to being replaced with stronger versions. aspir samba 2 felt more useless because there was even less of a reason to use it compared to haste samba given that you obtained it at level 60. The difference is that in the current meta and playstyle, there's little reason for such abilities between trusts and the speed at which exp is gained. to tag on to what others have said, the spikes line still does have function, especially when doing anything solo, for example blm killing acuex in sortie. blaze spikes deals the most damage of the 3 albeit not much in the grand scheme of things, maybe around 100 damage for blaze, and 65 for ice and shock. I do think it would be a nice feature if they updated them though, so have a phalanx or stoneskin type effect in addition to the damage/stats effects. 1-Wouldnt drain samba be more beneficial to the multiple people attacking the target? The only low level targets that really have MP are mage beastmen, crabs, worms and beetles (and undead but aspir samba wont work). Of that target pool, only Quadav and Beetles dont do any aoe damage, so everyone on the front line will be taking damage one way or another on those targets you're using aspir samba on. If I missed any mobs with MP that dont AOE, let me know.
2-As I said, you'd probably gain more MP by resting. Yes, I know you cant heal with an avatar out, but I highly doubt your avatar is contributing any meaningful white damage, even at low levels, and BP Delay - gear only becomes available at lv50. 3-Unrelated to your above post, but once again Aspir Samba isnt a "convert dmg to MP", the target must have MP for the ability to do anything, which severely neuters it in general. Based on the above, Aspir Samba was always useless. People forget how amazing Blaze Spike was back in the lv75 days in Ballista.
Some PLDs or full defence BRDs subbing RDM with Balze Spike were just un-killable and you would just die auto attacking them.
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Cerberus.Kylos said: » 7. Smiting Breath Look, it's not much, but every so often you'll get that THF or PLD in dyna who was obnoxious enough to pop PD or invincible at 1%, and then smiting breath is there to finish 'em off anyway
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syllreve said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » 7. Smiting Breath Look, it's not much, but every so often you'll get that THF or PLD in dyna who was obnoxious enough to pop PD or invincible at 1%, and then smiting breath is there to finish 'em off anyway Is this something a lot of other DRGs do as well? Also, to others, this isn't about how abilities performed "back in the day", but currently in 2024. Dude lol. That's ultra grasping for straws. Yeah it's an ability that deals 800-1200 damage. 99% of DRG (including myself) don't bother with Smiting Breath. The incredibly niche use case described is the equivalent of a Corsair finishing mob off with quick draw, ranger shooting one extra bolt/bullet/arrow, a ninja using as San spell. Complete nothingburger.
Unless you're carrying Wyvern breath gear (which the spicy's guide that disappeared listed as an additional could hundred points of damage Everytime your WS goes off), it's usually a resisted pile of nothing that almost nobody bothers using. Unlike Restoring Breath, which is phenomenal.
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IDK I mean it is a use and DRG has no alternative in that situation except swing wildly and do 0 damage or move on to the next target.
It's not just dynamis [D] mobs either, there are mobs in segs that use Invincible, PD, etc. Not saying they're going to routinely be at 1%, but it's still a way you can contribute where you otherwise couldn't. It's very bad and extremely niche, but not worthless. Depends how high/low you want to set the bar for "worthless" Cerberus.Kylos said: » syllreve said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » 7. Smiting Breath Look, it's not much, but every so often you'll get that THF or PLD in dyna who was obnoxious enough to pop PD or invincible at 1%, and then smiting breath is there to finish 'em off anyway Is this something a lot of other DRGs do as well? Also, to others, this isn't about how abilities performed "back in the day", but currently in 2024. Raiden Thrust on Invincible or PD will work, or jumps with the added effect body also do the same thing (well not on PD) I never even bothered with smiting breath
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GEO can do more with a tier1 nuke than your wyvern can do with smiting breath.
You do have a GEO in dyna-d, dont you? Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » IDK I mean it is a use and DRG has no alternative in that situation except swing wildly and do 0 damage or move on to the next target. I got news for you buddy. The people who mindlessly continue to swing at mobs that used perfect dodge or invincible instead of switching targets aren't smart enough to use Smiting Breath.
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: » GEO can do more with a tier1 nuke than your wyvern can do with smiting breath. You do have a GEO in dyna-d, dont you? The time it takes to tell the GEO there's a mob and them to pick it out vs you hitting a single macro/typing a command into FFXI though. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » IDK I mean it is a use and DRG has no alternative in that situation except swing wildly and do 0 damage or move on to the next target. I got news for you buddy. The people who mindlessly continue to swing at mobs that used perfect dodge or invincible instead of switching targets aren't smart enough to use Smiting Breath. Extremely true, but I'm not going to judge a move based on the mouth breathers. It's not fair to the poor JA. Not even sure mobs in dyna-d that are 1% would die to smiting, obviously varies on how much of that 1% is remaining but id just as soon jump another mob for TP and raiden if the pld/thf has to die and i cant just ignore him until invinc/PD wears
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It's a matter of personal preference but which is faster: hit a macro or switch mobs, get TP, and <st> a Raiden Thrust on to the mob which is lord knows where in the pile of mobs? Hope it follows you and doesn't smash itself into the middle of the mob you're trying to TP on.
I haven't used Smiting Breath in my entire life, but if the guy above's testimony is true that it does 800-1k damage, that would be 1% of the mob's HP for all of W1 and W2 at least, roughly 1% for W3 mobs (excluding Su5).
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » The time it takes to tell the GEO there's a mob and them to pick it out vs you hitting a single macro/typing a command into FFXI though. And this is after you alluded to "mouth breathers being too dumb to switch off the pld thf". The 1hr animation is the same for PLD & THF as it is for BRD, WAR, SAM, etc. so I'm not sure a GEO can just intuit that they need to nuke a PLD. Even if they are watching the battle and notice that the dust is coming off a PLD, they still need to figure out that it's at 1% and not 30%, then target it whereas the DRG is already staring directly at it.
Again...not trying to imply that this JA saves hours or is well-served, but the DRG using Smiting Breath to kill a THF or PLD at 1% is better than...basically every other option, unless you happen to be fighting the same THF as a COR or a RDM or someone else who can easily hit a single macro to finish it off. I guess the DRG body would also suffice but that only works for PLD and tbh, I wouldn't put that in my jump sets anyway, I'd rather have STP since the TP you gain will translate into more damage than the nonsense add. effect of your wyvern's HP. so whats the situation?
You're cleaving you're not cleaving 6-man you're not cleaving alliance if you're cleaving, geo does any tier-1 ra and the 1% pld/thf dies, the aoe nuke is irrelevant because you're cleaving, waking everything up isnt an issue because its not slept. if you're not cleaving and you're 6 man, you're engaging at most 3 mobs, its not hard to pick out the pld/thf at 1% you're not cleaving with an alliance, well I'm not sure what the use-case is here because there are too many unknowns ie: how many stats pulled at once and mobs are around, how many engaged targets at a time? You're trying really hard to bat for a worthless JA. How many nested if's before we get to its utility? IF the pld/thf gets 2hr off then IF the pld/thf is at 1% then IF the DD doesnt swap off to a different target then IF the mage isnt paying attention to nuke the sliver of HP down then Smiting Breath is useful. I think the only unrealistic part of this scenario happening in my group is the fact that there's a DRG there.
We typically pull 2-5 statues at once We melee all mobs down individually and don't cleave anything Our GEO, while not a bot, isn't typically paying attention to anything other than keeping bubbles up, weather if necessary, and erasing. I don't think she's ever nuked anything. Sometimes the GEO is a 2boxed character. PLD/THF probably aren't going to be at 1% because most of the time a DRG would be 1shotting rather than leaving them low, TBH that might be the most unrealistic part of this hypothetical. Even if it's not dynamis though, there are a million enemies in FFXI that use PD or Invincible. Even if you're not killing the enemy, it's still more productive to use Smiting Breath than it is to stand still doing nothing for 30 seconds. It's not useless, it's very bad. It's a job ability designed to do damage and you'd always gain more dps by switching to another target than hitting a global cooldown that may or may not finish off this specific mob type.
Also 800-1k dmg generous. You'd probably get sub 700. With deep breathing merited you could see those numbers enough to consider it a use, but that shares a category with Angon and Empathy. If they want to give us more merit capacity then sure it could perform in the extremely niche situation that is be proposed to exempt it from worthlessness. Phoenix.Iocus said: » Also 800-1k dmg generous. You'd probably get sub 700. With deep breathing merited you could see those numbers enough to consider it a use, but that shares a category with Angon and Empathy. If they want to give us more merit capacity then sure it could perform in the extremely niche situation that is be proposed to exempt it from worthlessness. When I had it geared for Breath+, 1300ish was normal. I've since reduced my breath+ gear in favor of keeping DT topped up, but 800-1k is a perfectly reasonable number to expect from it, and no, I'm definitely not wasting merits on deep breathing. Carbuncle.Nynja said: » GEO can do more with a tier1 nuke than your wyvern can do with smiting breath. You do have a GEO in dyna-d, dont you? Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Dude lol. That's ultra grasping for straws. Yeah it's an ability that deals 800-1200 damage. 99% of DRG (including myself) don't bother with Smiting Breath. The incredibly niche use case described is the equivalent of a Corsair finishing mob off with quick draw, ranger shooting one extra bolt/bullet/arrow, a ninja using as San spell. Complete nothingburger. Unless you're carrying Wyvern breath gear (which the spicy's guide that disappeared listed as an additional could hundred points of damage Everytime your WS goes off), it's usually a resisted pile of nothing that almost nobody bothers using. Unlike Restoring Breath, which is phenomenal. I acknowledged as much, that it was totally a niche use. But why wouldn't you carry breath+ gear around? Every ws is going to get a few hundred extra points of damage on a job that gets TP extremely fast, at the cost of... nothing, other than carrying the gear around. Why leave free damage on every ws on the table? Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » I haven't used Smiting Breath in my entire life, but if the guy above's testimony is true that it does 800-1k damage Smiting Breath is subject to resists like any magical/breath/hybrid move, but wyvern breaths deal even worse damage because it can only be modified by Breath+ gear, like the augments on Acro, JSE cape, AF/Relic head, and Glassblower's belt. Pet/Wyvern Level +1 gear also affects breath damage. You can't use petmab or anything, but pet macc works to help land. You CAN bump up the damage to the numbers I mentioned above (maybe higher), if you make a dedicated set with the pieces. I am not even sure how much it would do on most mobs due to resists, especially in Dynamis, where you're probably pulling a certain eye color and certain elements are resisted. I suppose the wyvern should be "smart enough" to use the right breaths, but from what I recall, they are only aligned to mob weakness and not something that changes like statue eye color in dynamis. So it might land for 2000 on a 1% Invincible PLD, or it might just do 50 damage and be a waste of time. Just depends. I look at the parse damage whenever I'm on DRG in segs or something, and it's usually like 1% or something like 30k total damage overall. Relatively insignificant, and that includes their melee damage, which is very low. You can make a case that minor wyvern breath damage is damage and it's "helping", and thus not worthless, the same as giving a thirsty person a drop of water to quench his thirst is "helping". Idk though, the move to me appears worthless in current endgame, and nobody I talk to really using the move, let alone gearing it. It might be a different story at lower levels. I'll let players decide for themselves if Smiting Breath is is worthless or not.
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syllreve said: » But why wouldn't you carry breath+ gear around? Every ws is going to get a few hundred extra points of damage on a job that gets TP extremely fast, at the cost of... nothing, other than carrying the gear around. Why leave free damage on every ws on the table? Because I don't care about carrying an extra 5-6 pieces of gear (Glassblower's Belt, Dreki Ring, Acro Body/Hands/Legs, and Reive JSE Back (the other pieces like jse neck, af/relic head, and gleti's feet I carry anyways, so that is fine)) to what amounts to about 30k total extra damage on the parse after a seg farming run (.1% of damage). It's relatively insignificant to me and I already struggle with inventory space as it is. Also, unpopular point, but DRG is one of the few jobs I haven't made a lua for, so I play pretty much equipsets style on it and a few other jobs. It would be a lot clunkier if I had to throw an extra set of waits and gear in my WS macros in order to have that gear equipped while my pet was throwing thunder around. Honestly, I really considered all of this, it was simply not worth it to me, the damage was completely insignificant overall at the end of any event edit: also last point, when people look at a parse, most ignore the wyvern's contribution. Like it's not even there xD syllreve said: » But why wouldn't you carry breath+ gear around? Every ws is going to get a few hundred extra points of damage on a job that gets TP extremely fast, at the cost of... nothing, other than carrying the gear around. Why leave free damage on every ws on the table? I used to have a breath dps set for drg but dropped it for the simple reason I want more dt in all my sets. I don't care if its a fraction of a second, in that fraction you're vulnerable and with the amount of ***happening in recent content its not worth the risk for a minor amount of dmg.
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Phoenix.Iocus said: » It's a job ability designed to do damage and you'd always gain more dps by switching to another target than hitting a global cooldown that may or may not finish off this specific mob type. How is this more DPS? The GCD is totally irrelevant since the time it takes to walk over to the next mob will be longer than the GCD, plus you're ignoring the fact that someone has to kill that low HP PLD/THF later, so in terms of overall kill speed you'll be much worse off by having to switch BACK to this same mob later on, walk over to it, and tap it with your stick. In the other scenario, it's already dead and takes nobody any more time to kill. I think the absolute fastest way for this mob to die and the group as a whole to move on to the next mob is for the DRG to pop a Smiting Breath. Is it worth making a macro/shortcut/going through the menu to hit this ability? IDK, up to each individual to decide I guess. Still occupies a niche though. syllreve said: » There's a geo there when I go, but 99.9% of the time it's a dual boxed geo doing nothing but putting up bubbles Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » plus you're ignoring the fact that someone has to kill that low HP PLD/THF later, If you're not cleaving but paying attention and changing target, you're going back to kill it regardless if it 2hr's at 1% or 50%. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY: Cerberus.Kylos said: » However, I'm only adding moves that can be adequately explained as to why they are worthless at least 95% of the time.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » plus you're ignoring the fact that someone has to kill that low HP PLD/THF later, so in terms of overall kill speed you'll be much worse off by having to switch BACK to this same mob later on, walk over to it, and tap it with your stick. DRG has access to jumps, so in this scenario, the bolded doesn't apply. You could easily switch targets and continue dps, and then when PD/Invincible wears, Jump the previous target. It's dead just the same. I think we're straining the hell out of a gnat-sized scenario that happens so infrequently, it's almost silly to debate this. Carbuncle.Nynja said: » //send geo /as main;wait 0.2;send geo aero2 Or, instead of this nonsense, you make a macro that does /pet "Smithing Breath" <t> and accomplish the same thing. 95% of the time, Stone II is useless. Afflatus: Misery, Esuna, Cura, Cura II, Cura III, Enlight, Endark, Bio, Dia. Don't use Comet 95% of the time. Meteor, Kaustra, Tractor, Dread Spikes, Death. Absorb-MND, INT, DEX, AGI, Acc, Attri. 95% of the time, Aspir is not useful or necessary. Can add Aspir II and III to that too, pretty niche stuff. 95% of the time, about 90% of WS are worthless. 95% of the time is a bad bar, but it's not my thread so whatever. |
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