Newer Players Need To Step Up Their Game
|
Newer players need to step up their game
Parse is Good against Bosses not Killing trash mobs, whatever resualt are majority of overkill Damage, also connection latency plus if someone is heavy on Lua, everyone will have severe lag because someone need to use DT when mov facing him or doing tp move.
You guys dont like parde because you are losers.
If you were winners, then you would like to see your results Parses can give you plenty of data to be very valuable. Just focusing on % of dmg dealt is silly. WS average, WS frequency, accuracy, etc., are really important metrics to review after a run / fight. These will help you gauge your performance and determine where you should focus to make improvements. Do you see you're averaging higher-than-expected swings per WS? Focus on being more attentive to when you have TP. WS average a bit low? Did you have the right buffs, or is your gear swapping properly? Acc is low? Make the proper adjustments with food or gear. You get the idea. Parses can be super helpful. In some cases I've seen all the numbers look good, it's just a matter of the player working on improving their targeting / switching targets efficiently.
I agree with the general point that usually issues over parses come from egos. But there are definitely people out there that completely dismiss them altogether which is questionable. Saying 'winning a parse means very little' is the other side of the spectrum. You can't dismiss the results of a parse just because you don't like the person's attitude that is sharing it. Parses aren't perfect because as it's been said, you can fluff numbers a bit by WSing mobs at low HP. But at the same time, you could be hurting efficiency / performance by not WSing at low HP since it might take too long to kill through melee swings / otherwise. Parsing has its flaws, but that doesn't mean you just dismiss the results altogether.
[+]
Kadokawa said: » Parse is Good against Bosses not Killing trash mobs, whatever resualt are majority of overkill Damage, also connection latency plus if someone is heavy on Lua, everyone will have severe lag because someone need to use DT when mov facing him or doing tp move. So...parses only matter when there's absolutely no human involvement in doing damage? The only way to differentiate yourself is how quickly you target a mob and which mob you choose to target/how you position yourself for auto-target to select the next mob for you. On a boss, how exactly are you differentiating yourself from another DD? Pressing your macro button harder than they did? The only *possible* way to say you're better than someone else is I guess...selecting what TP to use your WS at...? Having a good parse on a boss, like W3 Dynamis [D] boss, just means you didn't fall asleep. One thing I wish parses had was a count of enemies killed. Could be a fun thing to trawl through the chat logs for. At the end of something like a seg farm run if you compare the number of enemies killed by each DD that would be pretty significant and reasonably difficult to cheese.
[+]
Parsing often doesn’t give a full picture when some players use tools others don’t, like clipping through solid players/enemies or skipping job ability delays. Overflow damage from accidental low-HP WS spamming also skews results, and if you’re not near others, their damage might not show. There are plenty of variables to consider.
This is just my opinion, but I prefer to focus on leading my group over tracking my damage. Sure, I could record every run and try to improve, but my priority is making the team more efficient, not myself. Buffs, heals, and enfeebling are more important to me than damage. Most players already know how to deal damage, so I don’t usually worry about that unless we’re underperforming, which is rare. I understand parses can be useful and fun for some, especially in a grindy game like FFXI, but my main goal is ensuring smooth runs with minimal deaths, not how fast we kill. While parses can help spot underperformance, I can usually tell when someone isn’t pulling their weight without them. As Maletaru said, winning a parse often just means you moved faster or pressed macros quicker. I’m all for players using parses to improve, but problems arise when egos get involved. The best damage dealers know when to back off and go defensive, not blame healers when they die while wearing Vim Torque +1 and maybe 1 or 2 Sakpata.
[+]
Cerberus.Kylos said: » winning a parse often just means you moved faster or pressed macros quicker. You can literally said play action games well just means you move faster, react quicker and press buttons faster. But that's the whole point of playing those games no? When you successfully press buttons quicker it's fun because that's gameplay. Not sure why this can be an anti-parse argument.
[+]
Afania said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » winning a parse often just means you moved faster or pressed macros quicker. You can literally said play action games well just means you move faster, react quicker and press buttons faster. But that's the whole point of playing those games no? Not sure why this can be an anti-parse argument. It's not an anti-parse argument. Like I said, I use parses. Maybe not to the degree of others, but I have used them many times. I just feel some take parses too personally and may use them to insult others, instead of using them for what they are meant for. I use them to notice when players are struggling so I can help them. The players at the top don't usually need help, they just need to be acknowledged that they are doing a great job every now and then. Cerberus.Kylos said: » I just feel some take them too personally and may use them to insult others, instead of using parses for what they are meant for. Insulting others is etiquette problem, not parse problem. Parse can be used to improve, manage party better, or compete and have fun, whatever. You use it however you want. Bad etiquette is a different issue that has nothing to do with parses.
[+]
Afania said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » I just feel some take them too personally and may use them to insult others, instead of using parses for what they are meant for. Insulting others is etiquette problem, not parse problem. Parse can be used to improve, manage party better, or compete with yourself from the past and have fun, whatever. You use it however you want. Bad etiquette is a different issue that has nothing to do with parses. I have seen issues arise because of the mentality of having to top parses, and having others insulted for underperforming while doing their best. It is more so an etiquette issue, but it stems from a few needing to feel this sense of achievement of persistently topping parses. I'm not blaming the tool itself, because that would be ridiculous. It is more so the mentality I'm not a fan of, but I understand why it is a thing, because I am a damage dealer and I used to enjoy topping parses many years ago. Nowadays, I really don't care if I do or not. From my point of view, I find it more satisfying to not take damage numbers too seriously. Yes, take them seriously to a point, because it is nice to see a group improving, but I'm way more concerned if players are getting KO'd or if we are losing than whether someone parsed 10% better. Cerberus.Kylos said: » but it stems from a few needing to feel this sense of achievement of persistently topping parses. But why is that a problem though? In the world of video games "feel the sense of achievement after min max" is literally the whole point of playing video games for many people. In single player games we have np with speed runners constantly pushing clear speed higher and brag about it. We have np with achievement hunters posting their plat trophy on forums and brag. It's what makes video games fun for many people: achievement. Then somehow achievement chasing isn't allowed in MMO? Doesn't make sense to me. What isn't okay is bad etiquette in MMO, not chasing sense of achievement in video games. Cerberus.Kylos said: » From my point of view, I find it more fun to not take damage numbers too seriously. You can have fun in a video game however you want. But keep in mind other people may have fun differently from you. There is no need to look down on different ways of entertainment.
[+]
I agree. We have different opinions and that is fine. Some will need their sense of achievement from topping a parse, while I don't need that. My sense of achievement is making sure my group has fun and wins. We lose, we learn, we improve, and then we enjoy winning. That's what I strive for. If players need that extra buzz from regularly topping parses, all the power to them. But it isn't for me, and I am sure it isn't for many others. I don't look down on it, I just don't appreciate it in the way others might.
[+]
I doubt anyone has a problem with someone sending themselves a parse in /tell or talking about their own parse results, like "I got 10m damage today, that my personal best"
The problem is when people post parses in party chat which is (at least implicitly, if not explicitly) comparing themselves against others. Especially so when that person is top of the parse, it's just bragging and being a ***, unless you know everyone in the group well and have an understanding about this kind of behavior. The other issue with parses is they're extremely situational. Say, for example, you have a support (RDM, BRD, COR, etc.) who aren't meleeing. That means every other DD will be getting a higher overall damage number, more WS in that run, a higher % of the damage, etc. In the case of seg farms, your parse can vary depending what type of mobs happened to spawn and on which floor they spawned. Your parse can be affected if you had a roll or song dispelled completely randomly by an Agon BRD or RDM. Maybe your WHM (SCH) failed to remove Paralyze from you for 45 seconds straight. Maybe you lost haste because the mage was too busy doing something else. Maybe a WAR used Warcry too far away from you. Maybe you got a WC6 and were able to use your 1hrs twice in a single run. Maybe the BRD got CC 6 and was able to use 2 SV in a single run. Maybe your BRD has stage 4 Loughnashade. Maybe it's stage 5. Maybe he accidently cast a ballad on the other DD. How much does your COR use bolter's roll, compared to the last time you parsed? What number did he roll on his rolls? Which roll did he use crooked on? Did that roll get knocked off by bolters? Parsing is not totally meaningless, but I think a lot of the factors that cause a parse to be exceptionally high or exceptionally low have very little to do with the player. If you SOMEHOW managed to keep every single one of those factors exactly the same for two people playing the exact same job, you could maybe divine some small difference in your performance, and even then...the parse doesn't tell you WHAT the difference in your gameplay is, just that there is one. I'm not confident that most people who stare at their scoreboard could figure it out, honestly, because they're too busy looking at their DPS figure going up and down to notice what is happening with any other person in the party. Then you ask your teammate hey, I noticed your DPS is higher than mine, how do you get over to the next mob so fast? Oh, I use JA0Wait, so I don't get locked into my WS animation, don't need to wait for my character to pull out their weapon, I can't get animation locked by being cured/nuked, and I WS from disengaged. K, thanks, great tips on how to play the game better.
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » The problem is when people post parses in party chat I agree that posting parses in party chat in PUG is bad etiquette. That being said, sometimes when I made PUG I do make it clear that pt will parse before I invite a DD, if they have a problem with that they can leave. Most DD have np and still choose to join anyways. I am not a fan of parsing in secret without informing people. Quote: but I think a lot of the factors that cause a parse to be exceptionally high or exceptionally low have very little to do with the player. In my 10+ years of FFXI the only situation parses being exceptionally high or low is just death/wipe and accidentally underbuff really. Most of the time % variance seems to float around 5%, rarely over 10%. Another situation is when fight is too short, then luck and engage speed become a more important factor. In a 30min to 1hr event, the luck factor is much smaller because the unlucky buffs got even out after you do it many times. Other wise, if I consistently do 25%-35% of dmg in a pt in an event, I am not going to suddenly do 3% next run unless I died or underbuffed. Likewise I am not suddenly going to do 60% next run unless other pt members are extremely undergeared. I don't think the variance is THAT high. If you somehow miss buffs so often that it caused huge dmg variance , then pt has bigger management issues to deal with imo. Miss buffs can happen occasionally, but it shouldn't happen that often. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Then you ask your teammate hey, I noticed your DPS is higher than mine, how do you get over to the next mob so fast? Oh, I use JA0Wait, so I don't get locked into my WS animation, don't need to wait for my character to pull out their weapon, I can't get animation locked by being cured/nuked, and I WS from disengaged. K, thanks, great tips on how to play the game better. Parse does tell that, you know. I've noticed people using those tools by looking at the parse before, turned out my suspicion was correct. Obviously that was comparing with lots of data. If you don't have enough data it is harder to notice. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Oh, I use JA0Wait, so I [1]don't get locked into my WS animation, [2]don't need to wait for my character to pull out their weapon, I can't get animation locked by being cured/nuked, and [3]I WS from disengaged. 2-JA0Wait doesnt block this, you still have to pull weapon out, and you're still blocked by "you must wait longer" if you do this too fast. 3-This is gearswap, not JA0Wait. Afania said: » Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Then you ask your teammate hey, I noticed your DPS is higher than mine, how do you get over to the next mob so fast? Oh, I use JA0Wait, so I don't get locked into my WS animation, don't need to wait for my character to pull out their weapon, I can't get animation locked by being cured/nuked, and I WS from disengaged. K, thanks, great tips on how to play the game better. Parse does tell that, you know. I've noticed people using those tools by looking at the parse before, turned out my suspicion was correct. Obviously that was comparing with lots of data. If you don't have enough data it is harder to notice. Oh, what's the command to have a parse tell you that someone was using tools? I think you just said my point again? The parse will not tell you why someone out-parsed you, you have to figure it out yourself. All this is pointless anyway. You can tell if someone is using JA0 anyway because they slide across the ground in unnatural ways. You can tell if people are WSing from disengaged by looking at their animations. You cannot tell if someone is using any of these tools (or others) by looking at a parse.
[+]
Carbuncle.Nynja said: » 1-Skill issue. You can blink and skip animation lock (minus dances), but then you cant use style lock. Sounds like SE should remove this "feature" seeing as how theres a legit bypass. 2-JA0Wait doesnt block this, you still have to pull weapon out, and you're still blocked by "you must wait longer" if you do this too fast. 3-This is gearswap, not JA0Wait. 1.) I would LOVE to see the macro you use to change to WS gear, blink, and then walk away while the WS animation is going off. I have lockstyle turned off and I'm still stuck standing in place doing WS animation. 2.) The error message when attempting to WS while pulling out your weapon or "too fast" are "You can only use that command during battle" and "Unable to use weapon skill." and this isn't what I was referring to. 3.) I was listing tools, not features of JA0Wait. edit: in hindsight I guess the list for #3 kind of blurs together. It's not important. My point was: in this hypothetical, clearly joke response, the answers were all (IMO) using cheats, and not related to the person's performance at all.
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Afania said: » Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Then you ask your teammate hey, I noticed your DPS is higher than mine, how do you get over to the next mob so fast? Oh, I use JA0Wait, so I don't get locked into my WS animation, don't need to wait for my character to pull out their weapon, I can't get animation locked by being cured/nuked, and I WS from disengaged. K, thanks, great tips on how to play the game better. Parse does tell that, you know. I've noticed people using those tools by looking at the parse before, turned out my suspicion was correct. Obviously that was comparing with lots of data. If you don't have enough data it is harder to notice. Oh, what's the command to have a parse tell you that someone was using tools? I think you just said my point again? The parse will not tell you why someone out-parsed you, you have to figure it out yourself. All this is pointless anyway. You can tell if someone is using JA0 anyway because they slide across the ground in unnatural ways. You can tell if people are WSing from disengaged by looking at their animations. You cannot tell if someone is using any of these tools (or others) by looking at a parse. This is how I notice it as well. They move from one enemy to another in such an unnaturally smooth way that it sticks out like a sore thumb. Players doing that have a massive advantage in a place like Odyssey, so they will usually top the parse (when only they are doing it) and I know a good chunk of the damage was down to having that freedom compared to others. Which comes to the real problem -
Square doesn't care to QOL this game Some people just thrive / want to lead the blind. So they seek out new(er) players so they can play leader. They are critical of 'veteran' players speaking up at all, even if it's polite, because they want to do things their way or for the ideas to be their own. Typically these types of leaders can't cut it in more 'serious' groups that are looking to push content. They're also quick to point fingers at the 'veteran' DD for anything that goes wrong when the clear issue is their support friend that can't keep up with heals / enfeeble removals even though the DD is in full DT.
But I'm ranting. As much as some people can't stand the DDs with egos that rant and rave about their parses, I also can't stand the type I've mentioned above. They want to live in their little bubble. They'll even attribute strong DD performance to using 3rd party tools. I'm sure servers vary, but I can't name a single instance of someone using JA0wait on my server among the people I've played with on Cerberus. We also have like 30 real people that play so that's probably a contributing factor lol. Bismarck.Nickeny said: » Square doesn't care to QOL this game I know everyone's just going to dogpile and make personal attacks instead of engaging with actual logic here but I think the average person looks at luas, addons, and plugins that some guy developed in their basement and says "if this rando can do it, why can't SE do it?" which is extremely short-sighted. For better or worse, SE doesn't want to have their game to look janky. This includes things like Dressup causing people to do Polearm WS while wielding a club and characters sliding across the floor because they're still in the middle of a WS animation while they're supposed to be running. Other things are entire system overhauls. Things like auto-target, inventory management/loading, packet priority, equipsets, etc. will require significant development and testing to alter. Changing the way some of them work could cause significant problems for the user/servers. Even if they actually wanted to do all this stuff too, it's a business. You can't go to your boss and say "I'd like to spend 3 engineers' salaries for the next 6 months to do a bunch of overhauls, I'm sure the players will love them", it needs to be an investment that's worth those $2m, not to mention you're stifling the careers of those people the entire time as they're working on completely dead skillsets for a game with no advancement opportunity or future. Trust me though, you'll definitely see a massive increase in the subscriptions if we can fix these problems that the users are already cheating to get around. It's just a quick QOL thing though, should only take a couple hours for a single guy to fix, plus he's just sitting around doing nothing right now and there's no other game we could possibly assign him to work on. It's basically free labor! tl;dr: it's a lot easier to "fix" the "problems" with FFXI when you have free labor and low standards.
[+]
Parse is a tool, you need the comprehend the goal of using it. Personally his 9M is fine but not great, nothing to bloat about, but that’s also probably because he didn’t "work" very deep on his odyssey (+RP). But only him can *** that "score". Dyna doesn’t have the piercing/blunt/… issue. Parsing live to monitor acc is super cool, comparing same runs with same constant parameter, like buff and debuff like maletaru said show progress and what work better or not.
Use it to improve
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » One thing I wish parses had was a count of enemies killed. Could be a fun thing to trawl through the chat logs for. At the end of something like a seg farm run if you compare the number of enemies killed by each DD that would be pretty significant and reasonably difficult to cheese. Leaderboard does this for kill count, high and low ws, charmed kills etc. Bismarck.Nickeny said: » Square doesn't care to QOL this game Some of you guys have been saying like this for how long? Since 2016-2018? It's like saying this dog doesn't care about me. What am I supposed to do? Just keep feeding it to keep it alive? tee hee - I like how the idea of meaningful updates on a subscription game is taboo
[+]
Zehira said: » Bismarck.Nickeny said: » Square doesn't care to QOL this game Some of you guys have been saying like this for how long? Since 2016-2018? It's like saying this dog doesn't care about me. What am I supposed to do? Just keep feeding it to keep it alive? Its a psychological tactics that rssort on emotional blackmail. Like you say to your love partner that he/she doesnt care about you just to make him/her guilty, make him/her think the wrong is him/her, and you are the victim. Personally I think if there is this blackmail in the relationship, then its not healthy and you should end this as soon as you can. Abusive love will only hurt you. Seek for healthy relationships. The topic in recent posts is definitely part of why I drifted off and didn't stick around, as even events I did find myself in that involved large groups of people or mobs didn't really feel smooth or fun. Tanking Dyna-D waves on PLD, doing segment farms on WAR... I think whenever I got to play WHM was when I had the least trouble with the UI and targeting (because I just had all my spells and JAs set to cast with shorthand so I just played WHM by typing). Otherwise the constant engage/disengage and retarget/find a new target dance got maddening and felt incredibly awkward to deal with and never felt "good" to me. Maybe it's just a skill issue on my part, who knows.
For a MMO that probably has the actual worst UI, control scheme, and targeting system for handling literally more than 1-3 enemies on screen at a time that I've ever experienced (and I've played a lot of MMOs) SE really seems to like throwing a lot of mobs around in events. I'd have expected them to acknowledge that at some point in past design either implicitly by never making content with more enemies around at once than an average Ambuscade or explicitly by just improving the systems surrounding all of that. But for reasons others mentioned already the latter was probably never on the table, I'd agree. PacketFlow and being able to WS disengaged are as or more impactful than JA0.
Parsing Dynamis is dumb though. Pantafernando said: » Seek for healthy relationships. Already did. All I had to put it to sleep because of very old and sick. Was doing great when young. Now I have a new puppy. Same type doing different things. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Kadokawa said: » Parse is Good against Bosses not Killing trash mobs, whatever resualt are majority of overkill Damage, also connection latency plus if someone is heavy on Lua, everyone will have severe lag because someone need to use DT when mov facing him or doing tp move. So...parses only matter when there's absolutely no human involvement in doing damage? The only way to differentiate yourself is how quickly you target a mob and which mob you choose to target/how you position yourself for auto-target to select the next mob for you. On a boss, how exactly are you differentiating yourself from another DD? Pressing your macro button harder than they did? The only *possible* way to say you're better than someone else is I guess...selecting what TP to use your WS at...? Having a good parse on a boss, like W3 Dynamis [D] boss, just means you didn't fall asleep. One thing I wish parses had was a count of enemies killed. Could be a fun thing to trawl through the chat logs for. At the end of something like a seg farm run if you compare the number of enemies killed by each DD that would be pretty significant and reasonably difficult to cheese. I meant as Odyssey Bosses, to understand who need to improve he's gameplay or gear to do more damage. killing trash mobs in laggy situation and other has better connection is never fair comparisson and lots of factors make people lag, such as lua users, bad connection, the limitation of ps2. Parsing just to say I'm the best when everyone knows that how some are using overkill ws damage and using all good damned addons or cheats to feel good against honest people that wont or use these addons or whatever you call them QoL is just sad. |
All FFXIV and FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.