Does Square Understand Why We Love Final Fantasy?

I mean from magic to story to gameplay it all went down hill since FF12 WTf is going on do people really like the Action gameplay of 16 am genuinely asking because i loved the ATB Turn based and the Hybrid from ff7 remake lets not forget postgame content!

I thought FF16 was extremely fun and story wise it was good. The best story we've gotten since FF10. I'm excluding FFXIV Shadowbringers + Endwalker though I would argue that those two expansions together might be one of the best written stories in FF history. The rest of FFXIV story is beyond garbage though.

That said I also miss turn based combat. I think there is a world where you can bring in action elements into turn based and even speed up turn based to be more real time. Similar to what they did in FFXIII but with full control of all characters. There are other problems with a system like this from a monetization standpoint.

Traditional FF games died with Square. FF12, despite being a fun game, had a horrible story and the combat was the first departure from turn based. FF13 was lacking in many aspects, music probably took the biggest hit here. FF15 they had to publicly apologize for releasing the game with an unpolished/unfinished story.

FF16 (and the Shadowbringers/Endwalker story) gives me hope that there is still talent in the company. The original trailer for the game looked like trash though. From what I've heard the FF9 remake will be sticking to the original and turn based so at least there's something?

Better question is do you understand why you love Final Fantasy. You may think so, but I doubt you (and most other people too) can really explain why. Its much easier to point out the things you don't like, but that has pitfalls too.

I am playing FF Origin Stranger of Paradise, and I gonna say this is the most FF-like game that I've played recently. It greatly reminds me of FF5 and FF11.

Basically you have dozens of FF jobs to choose from and pick 2 at a time, this allows pretty interesting job combination like FFXI did.

I've been playing with WAR/WHM buttersheep build for lulz, buff myself with pro/shell, run into enemies spamming devastating GA attacks, do a War cry for buffs then spam more brutal attacks. It's full of FFXI nostalgia.

Some time ago I was also playing with Great sword+mage combo, spamming spinning slash at close range then attack far away enemies with black magic at range.

The game even has a blue magic learning game mechanic, which puts a big smile on my face.

Really this experience is about as FF as I can ever hope for. I don't expect this kind of game to exist now but it did!

Highly recommended to anyone who wants a classic FF experience like FF5 or FF11.


Back to the question: At least I know Team Ninja fully understands why we love FF, that's all that matters!



FFO shows that it's entirely possible to be action and FF-like on the same time.

Pretty sure there are executives at SE that will fight to the death over the idea that "Final Fantasy" as a concept can be applied to any and every game format, licensing deal, tie-in, or promotional opportunity, as long as there's good money for SE involved.

Given how many turn-based remasters they still sell, SE likely has a very good idea of how many people would buy a new turn-based mainline FF entry; If they keep making 'em action combat games instead, it's because they think that type of game will appeal to more players overall, even if some of the turn-based fans hate it.

I 100% agree with you. Shadowbringers and Endwalker were perfection. I wouldn't have been mad at all if they stopped FF14 story at Endwalker.

To answer the original question... It's all because kids don't have the attention to play a ATB game. I had to think about this when I played 15 and the 16 demo. Is what made a great FF the battle system, or was it the story and the characters? With how cinimatic games have become I have to imagine it would really break the immersion to jump into an ATB battle in the middle of an insane CS.

While I do love ATB, I didn't hate the battle system in FF15. It grew on me more the more I discovered you could do.

man i miss reflect and double nukes...

I honestly do not get people repeating "Shadowbringers was the best FF story ever" like it did not even cross my mind when I finished it. It was equally horrible like most of their expansions with the forced head nodding and click 4 glowing dots. It even came with the usual fake sacrifices and plot twists you could see a mile away. I would really be interested to know what exactly makes it some kind of A+ storyline when its all been done before in Final Fantasy and better.

The problem is that the video game industry is a business, and the main motivation for Square Enix executives is to make money. These people aren't satisfied like we are with a mere 15% return on our investments—they want to see 200% or 300% so they can call it profitable.

I love FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX, their stories and combat systems, but releasing a game like that in 2024 is very risky. Baldur's Gate 3 was the exception, but the current trend is action RPGs like Monster Hunter World/Rise or Dark Souls (Elden Ring), which have each sold over 15 million copies.

If Square Enix were to release Final Fantasy XVII in the style of FFX, I have no doubt the game would sell two or three million copies, especially if it's released on day one for Steam, Series S/X, PS5, and Switch 2. But the company is looking for a "putazo" of 15 to 20 million copies sold, like Elden Ring.

Watch for FF17 to be an Elden Ring clone. Watch.

Let’s meet back in this thread in 5 years.

What I dislike about FFXIV expansions is:

90% of the time, you're just "reporting" quests—you’re not really playing. Every 20 missions or so, they’ll throw in a dungeon or trial. The areas are just there for decoration; they don't send you on quests like "Collect 15 lizard tails," "Eliminate 20 quadavs," "Gather 5 lilacs in King’s Rampere Tomb," or "Take down an elite enemy like Krezeut."

I’ll say it again—it's all "Walk from point X to point Y," talk to the NPC, read the text, which is written in old colonial English for 40 hours. It’s unbearable for me.

I prefer WoW expansions, where everything is voice-acted. The NPCs talk to you while you play, advancing through the map by doing classic quests—kill enemies, gather loot, collect items, take down elite enemies, run a dungeon in the duty finder. The cutscenes are few but fantastic, all voice-acted in Latin Spanish, my native language, etc.

If I could give an example, it's something like this, while you play in real time:

Sylvanas: We don’t have time for this, Jaina! If we don’t work together, Ragnaros will burn us all to ash.

Jaina: Trust you? After all the blood you’ve spilled?

Alduin: We have no choice. The fires of Molten Core grow stronger by the minute. If we don’t act now, it will consume us all.

Tyrande: I swore never to ally with the Horde, Sylvanas. But if it’s the only way to survive…

Sylvanas: We needn’t like each other, Tyrande. We just need to kill the same enemy. For now.

Alduin: Ragnaros cares not for our grudges. We fight together, or we fall together.

Jaina: Fine. But once this is over, we settle our differences. No more truces.

Tyrande: Agreed. For now, the enemy of my enemy is my... temporary ally.

Sylvanas: Very well. Let’s burn this place to the ground, starting with Ragnaros.

Alduin: Let the flames of our hatred fuel our victory.

Foreshadowing? :O

I feel the exact same way, it's such a slog. It's literally littered with fetch quests in the form of glowing dots. Every thing is, go here talk to npc, click 4 glowing dots on floor and go back to npc. Then ensues cuts cenes with low effort movements and constant head nodding and gaping mouth emote. This is every single expansion. And like you said, that old English spoken in that horribly annoying British accent is unbearable. GODS, WE MUST GO ANON TO AVOID DETECTION. Like so cringe and they brought it to 16 and apparently all their fan shills eat it up. Voice acting isn't always a bonus apparently. The storyline itself was basic, how many times now have the main cast "sacrificed" themselves only to reappear later. Only once was it permanent and who knows if they will come back eventually. The plot twists were easily seen a mile away and it's nothing special. The music is good I'll give it that, but the horribly rigid cutscenes, fetch quest with glowing dots, typical patterns they repeat in every expansion. Even the dungeons play the same and feel like reskins.

I could go on and on, but saying it's the best FF storyline is such a stretch you would have to question that person's tastes.

I remember the first final fantasy game I played. It was the original. I was quite young, but I was immersed in the story as it unfolded. It was a fantasy world that drew you in, and expanded my imagination beyond the 32 bit pixelated moving characters on the screen. As the story unfolded, it became even more intriguing with the time loop. It was something that drew you into a story that was pure fantasy, and at the same time was real in its own right. I think that's what I love(d) about final fantasy. The turn-based combat also required some imagination, where the actions you gave your characters, and the enemies, would play out as if it was not turn-based. This was based on stats like agility, luck for running away, etc. It also had side stories that were very interesting, such as getting Bahamut's blessing. The content was extremely challenging at times, especially the end dungeon where you could get killed simply by enemies using poison gas against you.

I think, to answer the OP's question, Final Fantasy 1 embodies a lot of what I love(d) about Final Fantasy. However Final Fantasy was meant to be perceived, it was ultimately these factors that made it what it is - for me. Does SE have a grasp on these factors? In XI I would say they have a good grasp, considering it's an MMORPG. The later series entries, I think it's possible when the brand switched hands, instead of creating narrative timeloops, it created a portal...into the Panderverse, where the lowest common denominator means more revenue.

tl;dr absolutely not

They're so far out of touch with their fanbase it is insane.

https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-16-square-enix-rpg-reactions-reviews-1850572470


That's a "no". It's not surprising that FF16 was a disaster.

We need sakaguchi to produce final fantasy again

This thread just make me feel my taste in games is old man taste. Just let it go guys we are not the target audiance for any upcoming games from Square Enix or any devolopers.

What I like/d about Final Fantasy games: Fantasy. Swords, shields, axes, magic.

What isn't fantasy: stupid time travelling ***and gunswords. Also FFXIII, etc.

What I like in FF series: innovative combat, interesting story, good graphics, exploration and grind.

What I dont like in FF: woke.

You forgot big titty goth queen with her plush moogle

Middle aged people with not enough time on their hands to grind out a 40+ hour game are not the target audience for any game.

I don't see teenagers flocking to FF16 from their Valorant or whatever cartoony dopamine factory is the flavour of the day today so I don't think Square knows what their target audience even is, or even if they still have one.

40h+ is a mid low tirr game in terms of gameplay.

For a first time playthrough, FF13 took me over 60h, each Xenoblade took me 150~200h. The last one, Xanadu is about 20h.

Some open world games have intrinsic replay value, the sky is the limit for those

Ok, but time travel (and airships and ancient technology) have been part of Final Fantasy literally since the first game?

I dont remember that many main numbered entries having time travel as s plot/subplot.

Before FF13, maybe FF13-2, FFXI WotG had something about it, but thats it

Characters traveling through time was a brief part of FF1, and a little more of FF8. I don't personally see it as 'not fantasy', but I also am not a fan of time travel as a plot device. Unless it's written very carefully, it undermines all other writing in the universe by providing easy solutions to everything that go unnoticed.

It's only bad if it's in a game I hate. Not biased at all.

FF1's main plot is literally Garland creating a time loop that grants him effective immortality.
And the game that this very forum is named after has at least 2 whole storlines with time travel.

Totally agree. Not a fan of it in general. Often times it's used as a deus ex machina solution when an author has written themselves into a corner, usually creating more problems (and even paradoxes) than it solves. Usually worsened by them trying to pass it off as something cool as if this is still the 80s.

Its use in FFXI was very welcome because the reward of visiting locales in the past was just too great, so it's acceptable from that perspective.

Crono Trigger and an amazing plot i know its not 100% Fantasy but some SCI FI is always good IN FF, but they shouldn't push it as much as ff13, even ff1 had scifi stuff Airship?