Final Fantasy As A Turn Based

Anyone other than me think Square enix will sell over 3 million of copies in a week if they release a Turn based new Original final fantasy and not a remake? Everyone is *** Starved for a Turn based FF, Holy ***iv been playing Old games on the ps5 recently and have been enjoying Wild arms 2 and legend of dragoon more than i enjoyed FF16, i have even played them before in the past Lol,

TLDR i think lots of us are starved for a Turn based FF,

While I share some of that sentiment, what would a turn based game even feel like these days? Without a compelling story, lesser graphics wouldn't be a selling point anymore. Consider the paper mario series as a model for what a current turn based ff would look like. maybe not the art style so much, but something more like that kind of gameplay. abilities would be extremely limited and there would be little need to sell such a game on a system like the ps5 that can handle a game that required more operating power. I do believe that sadly we are out of the turn based era and stuck in the action rpg style, because at this stage, going to turn based just feels like a downgrade. The reason we as players tolerate the slower turn based systems is out of nostalgia. It's not because we believe it's actually a dynamic and engaging way to play a game.

I don't think turn based is dead, it's just being delivered using different format now.

I was playing some older early 2000 console jrpg months ago and I strongly felt this kind of gameplay should have been on mobile phone or another handheld gaming device like switch or portable PC.

On mobile I can turn on auto battles for easy random encounters then go do other things and play the game on the same time. On console I am locked in front of my TV when the gameplay doesn't require that much attention.

I guess that explains why many newer turn-based games are either on mobile(see popular Honkai Star rail), on Switch or PC(many remastered classic jrpg), or belongs to a complete different genre like rogue-lite (those genres usually require higher player attention level than most jrpg).

If I am sitting in front of my TV on a weekend for hours playing PlayStation, I probably would prefer an action game too, or a genre that needs my full attention. If I am going to play a jrpg without needing my full attention for most battles, I feel mobile or handheld device is the best platform for this.

And since FF16 is a high budget game on PS5, it makes sense that this game belongs to a genre that requires player's attention every seconds.

That does not mean turn-based is dead though. They are still alive somewhere else.

Wildly generalist and overexaggerated.

- Who is everyone?
- Which version of turn-based combat? (Every version iterated on the formula)
- Starving? It's a sub-genre today and has an audience to match.

Honkai has seen the support it has because:
- It's a mobile game.
- Its developer/publisher already has a successful track record for mobile content.
- It's highly focused on sexual anime content and RNG-based game mechanics.

The biggest audience for turn-based JRPGs is mobile/portable consoles. Doesn't sound like a good choice for a mainline FF title when their release cadence is longer and budget higher.

It's hard to argue the value of turn-based or old-school game design choices when replaying nostalgic titles from your youth. Without having played LoD 10+ times as a youngin', I would not be interested in its gameplay today with a different skin.

SE has released plenty of turn based RPGs over the past few years. The Bravely Default games are FF in everything but name basically. Great turn based combat, all the classic FF jobs, and a generally good story.

While I agree it might be nice to see one with the FF name, that alone doesn't make it a good game.

To add emphasis to this, Star Rail would have gone nowhere if Genshin hadn't already paved the way. Turn based RPGs, even for gacha, are becoming very niche. Most of the new gacha coming out these days use action or strategy battle systems if they aren't an autobattler or idle game. In fact, Star Rail has had, especially at launch, a whole lot of drama centered around the fact that it was turn based instead of action like Genshit.

Fate Grand Order is the other big turn based gacha that makes loads of money but knowing the players of that game, they don't pay to play it, they pay to collect their waifus in one of the most predatory and expensive gacha systems on the market.

Anyway, whether people want to accept it or not, whether I or anyone else would like to see it or not, I doubt we'll ever see another mainline turn based FF game and instead the turn based SE RPGs will be spinoff games and franchises (see: the FF7 mobile 'downmake' coming out, Octopath, Bravely, I am Setsuna*, etc.)


*This game may have marked the turning point in TB -> Action for their mainline games. It was SE's market research project to see whether people wanted more TB games, and the critical reception and whining from people who played it was mostly negative when it came to the combat, despite using one of the best turn based combat systems of all time (basically ripped from Chrono Trigger).

Those are low Budget RPG,s iv been playing Baldur's gate 3 now on full release oh man Turn based games still better than Action RPG's and they are more immersive and it already sold more than FF16 and it is a lesser known ip in the video game genre (not board game) in an extent the youth are not interested in this kind of gameplay but infact it has sold more than ff16?


https://vginsights.com/game/1086940

personally i agree but i know its not the popular opinion these days. turn based simply doesnt do it for most people anymore. there are still some great ones out there, though. octopath 2, bravely default, crystal project to name a few. i cannot stress enough how great crystal project is

South Park: Stick of Truth... cripes, just saw it's 10 years old now, guess it qualifies as a classic turn based RPG.
Octopath Traveler 1 was pretty good as well, if a bit grindy. I haven't started 2 yet, but looks similar.

So, I 'm not really sure why you quoted me just to go on and say something very similar to what I had said.

I also never said turn based was dead. . . Granted I could have elaborated more, but what really is there to say? Most people who play turn based know that it's mostly relegated to hand held or tactics style games. The remakes that have surfaced that maintained a turn based system are literally for nostalgia, which is great for what that is, but it's no longer a new revolutionary gaming idea.

Problem with these kinds of comparisons, and why they're intentionally or unintentionally dishonest, is that we only know about physical sales of XVI on a single platform. SE's stupid decision to go for PS5 timed exclusivity no doubt hurt launch sales, and PC launch next year will see it sell millions more copies, however the oft-quoted metrics of "lol only sold 3million copies" is only physical, shipped copies of the game which would be in the minority of overall sales numbers, especially considering only a fraction of PS5 consoles even have a disk drive.

Turn based isn't dead, it has just evolved.

I really enjoyed the Dragon Age series of games and they are ostensibly real time combat where you can pause at any time.

In addition, Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity show there is a market for both turn based and real time with pause RPGs.

Real time with pause is effectively what turn based used to be. There are quite a few new games being made in that style. None by SE, but they're moving towards more action based.

It's a choice, you don't have to like it. Plenty of other games to play like the classic JRPGs if that's your thing.

Turn based still one of my favorite types of gameplay. I consider it a style of gameplay and dont think its outdated. The only way that started is because SE wanted to cash in on popular crap to get the most money. Almost no other gaming style had been deemed "outdated" due to graphics... They've all evolved in different ways and remain popular with their core fanbase. We are in the age where every company is trying to chase that next viral garbage craze.

I personally enjoyed FF7R system a lot, wish they would at least go that route. Glad their recent venture wasnt as successful, maybe they will rethink that going forward.

I do agree that FF7R's combat system, while simplistic, is the best middle ground for the action and turn based crowds.

Baldur's Gate is another adaption of the D&D universe. To say it's "lesser known" in any way is criminal, especially in the west.

Wait what =.=... according to this list it says 2.4m units sold. And BG3 was on early access and selling copies since 2020 October.

FF16 sold 3m 3 days after release according to SE.

How did you get that conclusion based on data available? =.=

it does not matter that was a demo 1 chapter, it has 500k players on steam right right now currently playing that says alot already lol, not to mention evne DQ x1 sold more than ff16 lol, RPG's does not need to be Involved to action that is not the way, they need to be innovative and fresh, an example would be the jump from 9 to 10,

DQXI sold 6.5 million and its turn based.

......Dragon Quest 11 was also out for 4 years at the time of that announcement and had been released on every platform besides mobile phones. That 6.5 million also included digital sales, which again, XVI still doesn't have metrics for. You need to work on your data analysis skills.

If anything, DQ11 shipping 6.5m copies across several consoles (including the Switch, the largest console platform) and PC in 4 years while XVI had already shipped 3m copies in 1-2 weeks while only on PS5 and only counting physical copies makes your statement look ridiculous.

Yeah I think big budget turn-based game is dead. Thankfully there will always be remakes and indie games that can help scratch that itch. As mentioned in this thread, the FF7R combat is close to perfect for me. If that's how turn-based combat is dressed up in future games then sign me up. Other than that, just pump out remakes/remasters (hello Super Mario RPG) and that's more than enough for me.

This guys comparing PC/XBOX/PS/Switch sales totals to PS5-onry sales totals lol

This game was released on SIX platforms:
Nintendo 3DS
PlayStation 4
PC
Switch
Xbox
Stadia

If you want to talk "release date" numbers:
Japan did 1.13m on 3DS and 950k on PS4. I cant find exact numbers for NA sales near release date, but this article states DQXI had a total of 4 million sales in total with 3.25 mil having come from japan, so you can infer that NA did about 750k sales.

So talking release date numbers:
JP 3DS = 1.13m
JP PS4 = 0.95m
NA PC/PS4 = 0.75m

2.83 million sales near release date despite being accessible on THREE different platforms.

And based on that article, those figures include digital sales. To hammer it home to those who need to hear it: we have no data on XVI digital sales. We can speculate, and if we base it on XV's digital release day numbers the figure for XVI would be huge, but speculation is useless here.

You could still make an argument on how many copies may have sold vs how many needed to sell for SE to make big profits. The argument can be made that the game is commercially unsuccessful because they spent so much making it compared to what they'll make back (at least until PC release). That said, we also don't know how much Sony paid them for timed exclusivity. We don't know if they were paid for any of their numerous brand deals/licensing agreements. We don't know a lot of things.

I agree, I just don't see any big publisher spending tens of millions of USD on a turn based game. That niche has been filled by indi developers going for retro look, or the occasional Bravely Default style release.

Stuff like this

https://whitegiantrpg.com/games/last-dream/

Along with a ton of remakes / remasters like Grandia II HD.


That is not surprising, many people have multiple platforms and won't buy a copy for each of them.

I almost prefer that turn-based RPGs are an indi developer-ism. Generally, they'll have the unfettered creativity to just make a banger of a game.

1-Thats not true, otherwise companies wouldnt be making re-releases or re-masters. I'm sure a decent chunk of the DQXI:S sales came from people who bought DQXI for that definitive experience, and that 6.5 million number is a merged value of the base version and definitive edition.

2-Many people dont have multiple platforms and are unable to get XVI due to ps5 exclusivity.

Goes both ways.

If were talking market reach by potential buyers:
129.53 million Switches were sold
117.2 million PS4's were sold
75.94 million 3DS's were sold
Hard to tell how many gaming PC's are out in the wild due to the multi-use nature of a PC. But to get an estimate of numbers, NVIDIA shipped 230.54 million GeForce Graphics cards from 2010 to 2015. I'm not saying all 230 million sold were for gaming purposes, some could be sold to graphics devs, some could have been upgrade purchases from the same person (although it stands to reason they could sell their old card to someone less fortunate to recoup some funds), etc etc. Lets just say 20% of those cards are used for gaming, and thats still 46.1 million gaming rigs out in the wild.


Now compare that to what XVI is available to:
40 million PS5's were sold




Just for fun, I went to look at Xenoblade Chronicles sales.
Wii 2010: 913,422
New 3DS 2015: 543,783
Switch 2020: 1,680,000

The definitive edition remake nearly doubled up the original Wii version in sales.

Sadly, the portion of gamers that are starving for turn based FF in a mainline game are a demographic that is only getting smaller.

I'd love to see it myself, but I somewhat doubt that it would sell as well as it needs to, in order to revive their interest in making them that way.

For everyone of us that's starving for turn based mainline FF, there are 3 or more that say, "Why do we have to be beholden to the old style? That's no fun! It's just GRINDING! An interactive movie!!!!!!!!!!!!"

It's a sad state of affairs.

Huh... are you arguing in circles..

If someone owns multiple consoles from Microsoft / Sony / Nintendo, they don't buy a game for each one of them, they buy it for the one they want. Like if I own a Xbox One, PS5 and Switch, I'm not gonna buy the same game for each one of them. A remake/rerelease is an entirely new game.

Is this opinion based entirely on FF7 remake?

We could look no further than the FF1-6 Pixel remaster to see why the statement that "its an entirely new" game is absolutely false.

Not all remake's are rebuilt from the ground up. How much from the Star Ocean First Departure remake is "entirely new"?

It's a new game as in literally a new release....

Nobody is buying FFVI-PR for Steam, Switch, Xbox and PS5. Plus its' based on unity engine making it super easy to mod, for me Celes has Shock instead of Runic, along with me altering stats on a bunch of gear to balance things out, and putting Excal someplace accessibly before the end of the game.

lol