Final Fantasy XVI

XVI has equipment that modifies the players stats and skills. DMC does not.

Then putting new tires on a racecar does make a racing game an rpg. If that's your measurement.

Racing slicks and street tires modify your performance.

(And I'm pretty sure every weapon in dmc changes the skills and damage too so....?)

Your entire argument can be summed up that Final Fantasy isn't turn based anymore. Well, surprise! Final Fantasy hasn't been turn-based since FF10-2 (2003), and you want a return to turn-based gameplay. Arguing whether or not Final Fantasy is an ARPG is pointless now. This is the way it's been since FFXI's release (2003).

That is literally not what I said, In the damn quote you quoted brah.

What I said: If 16 actually were an arpg it'd be fine. It is not. "It has stats" is not the bar.

I don't enjoy 12 13 14 15 because they are arpgs. That's completely irrelevant to what 16 is and is not.

Are you trolling again? Wikipedia ARPG

For XVI to *not* be an ARPG, it'd have to have no character progression systems, which is factually untrue. Honestly, it's not even very different than any game after 12.

I need to find the crack yall smoke cause real talk, you're living a fantasy.

Now that's some top-tier trolling brother. An ARPG does not require multi-character control you clown.

If a single character game is an rpg then every game is an rpg.

Pacman. Pong. Tetris. Millipede. Space Invaders. Great arpgs. They have levels and the speed increases!

Literally 0 IQ take. I guess Path of Exile and Diablo are not ARPGs now because you control one character. Sorry, world. Eiryl has spoken.

Poe Diablo Elden ring (etc)

All have classes/jobs, it's one character at a time. Play it as a mage or a lock or a hunter or a necro. Every playthrough for everyone is different.

Clive is just and always Clive. Single player, single character adventure game.

Dante is always just dante. Link is always just link. Samus is always just samus. They're great arpgs too right? Upgrades and stat increases in a story where you play the role.

And:
And elden ring has co-op help. You can call helpers to your game.

I think we all know the sales would have been much higher if there was more access to the game.

I’m pay check to pay check and can’t afford a PS5. If it was on the ps4 I would have purchased it, just like I did the RE4 remake for PS4.

That being said, I’ve completely spoiled the game for myself and I’m really excited to play it regardless.

There was one great post on Reddit that explained that if this isn’t your cup of final fantasy - and that’s okay if it’s not - doesn’t mean it’s a bad final fantasy. There’s a whole bunch of people online who think their opinions are royal decree and that we should bow to them.

FF16 is a risk. However, it seems, in my opinion, that it is going to turn out to be a risk worth taking.

Imagine being so mad over a game that you'll contribute ~40% of the posts in a (at this time, not including this one) 162 post thread ranting and raving over how "it sucks cause its not a proper JRPG" lol

Embarrassing

Going to dip my toe in this fetid pond here and share my thoughts on discussed topics:

FF16 is a true FF title, because SE deems it to be. The originator/creator gets to pick, not the fans. We can enjoy/not enjoy, but they get to pick what they are making. If this is what they envision as a FF title in 2023 with new technology, fanbase, etc., then it is - period.

I enjoy this game a lot. To me it is very similar to Dragon Age 2 in that you use the same maps to various degrees, but the story and the characters are what changes the feel of the world map. The mature tone also really appeals to me. The only thing that I feel could have been improved upon was that leveling up didn't feel as impactful as I hoped it would be, as a habitual grinder in my games.

As for characters, Clive is one of my favorite characters in a long time, because he's more raw and realistic. Also a lot of the voice lines that are sad and pained came from the VA's real life experience while making the game. His dad introduced him into the FF series and died while he was recording. Cid is badass too, really enjoyed his parts. He was a perfect addition and really stole the show.

The game is extremely well done. You can tell they really cared about the motion capture, the story (lore), the different ways to engage the story (different npc data logs and formats) and the active lore system. These are great for all types of players. You can skip by the cutscenes and come back later if you want, which is nice.

I actually think FF15 is extremely good, but only if you play the Ardyn add on and the "Specs" add on (which should have been the true ending, IMO). FF15 was ambitious and caught a lot of hate that I think it shouldn't have.

I have the collector's edition of FF16 and I'm not ashamed of it. I am loving the game. Now if they'd only remake FF6 I'd die happy! #Locke

I can't wait for a company to literally box a pile of ***, but call it pie, and wait for people with that dumbass mindset to be forced to agree it's pie because creater said so.

You are calling me a dumbass because you think the fans should determine if it is a FF title and not the producer of the game?

Eiryl's a miserable pile of ***who can't handle being wrong, don't mind him

Consumers absolutely do determine where a product fits into their lives, not the supplier. While consumers can not tell a supplier what to make, the supplier can not tell the consumer what to buy or how to use it.

We can argue for years about whether mainline Final Fantasy titles should include Action RPGs or not, I mean the various sub genres of RPG's are hazy enough that I could probably find someone's doctoral thesis on it.

My point from the get go has been that different sub genres provide for different gameplay experiences and those little names we tag onto them are to help consumers best select the experience they want. FF1~12 all followed the JRPG formula of having action queues and turns, FF13+ is where stuff started to shift with FF15/16 being solidly ARPGs. 11 and 14 are both MMORPGs with 11 still using a real time version of the ATB system and 14 being modified into an ARPG systematically.

@Vyre yes I brought up CRPG's to demonstration how the term JRPG got made, not from a bunch of PSX weeboos drooling over Cloud on a bike, but from the late 80's and early 90's era games where western and eastern companies had different styles and interpretations of the OG RPG Dungeons and Dragons game.

Final Fantasy navigation (JRPG)



Pool of Radiance(CRPG)



Might and Magic III (CPRG)



Legend of Grimrock II (CRPG) made recently as a throwback

I think you are harping on this a little too much. Let it go. There are weaknesses in the combat system that we can talk about, but there is no reason to keep pushing this narrative that it's not an RPG because you are only controlling the main character.

Lol, consumers decide if they want to buy the game or not or if they enjoy it. The producer gets to decide the name of the product.

As a consumer you are free to say a game is bad or boring. But saying FF16 isn't FF??? That's ridiculous. Whether a game is FF or not is decided by SE, not consumers.

And that aren't even all consumers, but only a portion of people who thought their opinion matters more than everyone else's.

I think the main issue with stats in FFXVI is that even tho they exist we have almost no way of controlling them.

There is literally only one sword in the game that has more atk power than stagger, every other sword has equal atk and stagger and is just a direct upgrade from the previous one (FFXIV gear system says hi!). No extra stats or difference at all. They could have added different moves/combos for different type of swords, or swords with more stagger dmg than atk dmg and vice versa, or swords that would align better to a certain eikon moveset (i.e. if I wanna play ramuh, shiva and bahamut that are more ranged playstile, I could equip a sword that boosts my magic and ranged abilities.

Armors are the same. I think I saw 1 piece of armor that had high defense and no health, but everything else is just a small upgrade for both defense and health from the previous option.

Leveling up also just increases all your stats equally.

So yeah there are stats in FFXVI but we can't manipulate them, so it's kinda like they didn't exist.

What makes a game an RPG? I think the most accurate definition is that an RPG allows players to make choices that impact the way your character/s grow/s and the way you play the game.

It's a spectrum, so you can have games with heavy RPG elements that affect your gameplay options and the story and the game world (think of Skyrim etc), games with less RPG elements that mostly affect your gameplay options but not much the story (think of The Witcher 3, Elden Ring, AC Odyssey, most FFs), or games with very few RPG elements that usually focus only on skill-trees and abilities (think of Hogwarts Legacy, GOW 2018/Ragnarok, SW Jedi, Spiderman and FFXVI).

Also usually games with few RPG options allow you to unlock everything or almost everything at the end of the game, while games with heavier RPG elements force you to choose between alternative options.

In that case you can say this game "lacks depth" or "lacks variety" instead of "this is not rpg".

One is describing game design direction, another one is changing genre definition as a whole.



This is definitely not how the gaming community define rpg 20-30 years ago, at least not in Asia. Otherwise ys1 isn't rpg since I have zero choice on stats manipulation in that game. And arguably dozens of story focused jrpg in the 90s and early 2000(like FF4 for example) that doesn't offer any choice on builds aren't rpg.

Stats manipulation is mostly a western rpg thing tbh. FF games with a job system doesn't represent all the jrpg. Plenty of Japanese/Asian rpg in the 90s only focus on story telling, with almost no choice on builds. The characters in those games automatically learn skills as they level up or progress in the story, and builds are fixed on each character for narrative purposes.

But the gaming community call them rpg anyways, only because characters have stats, experience points and progression.

If we are going to change the definition of rpg into something with build variety, not just narrative games with stats and progression, then there will be dozens if not hundreds of rpg from Asia getting kicked out of this genre lol.

I understand your point but most of the times in those RPGs (with the exception of FF4 as far as I can think of) you are allowed to choose your party composition which is a form of customization.

No, not really. There were many Japanese/Asian rpg games in the 90s that characters join and exit the party entirely based on story. The players have zero control over party composition because it's controlled by the story. It was basically narrative game with character progression.

Some of these games weren't even localized back then, since western rpg gamers don't prefer this kind of narrative first game style at that time. But Japanese gaming community still call them rpg.

FF series offered relatively more party composition freedom compare with most other 90s jrpg that I've played back then. Honestly I was kinda mind blown when I played FF6/7 for the first time and found the game let me freely choose party members.

Bro just ignore them, i am tired my self, ff16 is truly not an ARPG or a FF mainline to me there are a lot of people like us that would agree,

I *** loved the british accent in the game, it was *** amazing but the game it SELF Barley has an RPG Elements thats the *** issue,

HERE British accent is *** lit

Honestly, since we are talking video games, then it's best to just go back to the Original Role Player Game, Dungeons and Dragons.

Dungeons and Dragons Basic Rules

OG Final Fantasy straight up plagiarized the Monster Manual,but nobody really cared back then.

1st Edition Monster Manual

And the Dungeon Masters Guide, for those interested in the more detailed rules and examples of how to run a Role Playing Game.

Dungeon Masters Guide

The original DnD was heavily statistics based, everything involving chance would be a dice roll that had some modifier on it. Players would create a character that they would then role play in the shared fantasy world created and narrated by the Dungeon Master. The important part is that while numerical stats exist to help guide the play, they are not needed to role play. I once demonstrated this with my old DnD friends by running a set of adventures without a single die role or stat, it was just a bunch of improv that worked well.

Now since this is a video game, the creators act as the Dungeon Master and have attack / damage / etc.. formulas to act as guiding force behind the narration. We become so used to them that we started to think stats = RPG, which isn't necessarily true. All that is really necessary is for there to be characters that the player gets to role play as, and some sort of guided narration that the player interacts with.

16 is as bad as 13 but for different reasons

I'll let you know when it makes it to PC...or never. Either is fine.