Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

I'd disagree with the horn as must have. Not good for V25s. Very good for Sortie Melee mode. But I hardly see how it's a must have.

Duban is amazing.

I'd rank Helheim above Great Katana because of how powerful it is and it has 3 jobs on it. So my personal list would be:

(order within category doesn't matter)
Category 1: Staff, GS, Dagger, Horn, Shield
Category 2: GK, GA, Gun, Bow, Polearm
Category 3: Axe, H2H, Sword
Category 4: Katana, Club

And agree. Though, I just used it in dyna last night and it's almost unusable simply because it's too powerful. With Aria, there's no tank alive that's gonna keep hate off you. I think I died 7 times last night on DRK with stage 4. Pretty much HAVE to /DRG for slower TP gain and super jump to not be perpetually taking dirt naps.

Depends what you're fighting.

If something frequently wipes buffs at random, having Daur/Gjalla wrapped into one means you can get full potency songs on everyone without needing to get the extra song up via dummy buffs.

sounds more like a dt issue my group rarely uses tanks for wave 3 these days. Just a waste of a slot for a dd in a 6 man setup.

People sleeping on polearm

Because it's attached to dragoon. It could do perfect permanent 99k with zero buffs and still be undesirable.

Problem with drg is its floor is low and ceiling is high but it requires a lot more thought on positioning and JA use than most dds so it looks like a bad option when played badly but in reality is super strong.

What people are saying is that it's hard to bot a DRG and get great results. Because it is.

What I'm really not getting is dagger above gk/polearm (these lists are always stupid to begin with but man)

Job diversity really doesn't matter for this one since all 4 jobs have an equal or better option already (Twashtar/Maxentius). It's effectively the same exact thing as Kusanagi: damage upgrade over the empyrean (for RDM and Maxentius this is the opposite though and Kusanagi is a bigger upgrade over Masamune than Mpu Gandeing is over Twashtar) with different skillchain options (will note that Mumei is a far stronger WS than Ruthless Stroke by default).

I guess if you specifically need piercing damage on RDM but... man that's fitting a square peg into a round hole and plenty of these weapons could be elevated based on the merits of niche gameplay. Even for ws wall concerns, these weapons serve similar purposes; Kusanagi gives you free access to at minimum two potent ws as does mpu gandring. Could also be an argument on "ease of access" but Twashtar is multitudes easier and faster to build than a prime even for casual players.

From my understanding dagger gets placed high cause of dnc meta for sortie, similar to sam and GKT, dnc just has additional utiltiy along with being able to nuke bosses

Are you guys tanking W3 with DRKs with Last Resort and Souleater up in your 6 man runs?

I think WAR NIN SAM and other jobs have better ways of dealing with either enmity mgmt, shadows/TE, or simply killing faster and not dealing with dmg at all. Maybe I just suck too, though.

generally sams but we do occasionally take a prime scythe
drk, I just assume all the heavy dds should be able to tank harder content though. drk especially with those juicy hp pools

High placing for a single meta is pretty stupid tho since every other weapon in the game should then be rated on the same merits. This is part of why tier lists like these are a flawed concept to begin with but anyway. Dagger being that high because it happens to be used by one of the two jobs capable of doing the 9NM melee setup is a tenuous reason at best. It also then calls into question why Helheim is tiered on the same level as it when Helheim is not used for 9NM Sortie.

I personally havent used SE in quite awhile, remember to pull a pet aside and weapon bash > ws for compression and NVDS drain 3 to keep HP near capped in dyna, can resleep/break after.

hey Nariont, I think it might be an asura thing you know how that server tends to create more mediocre players when we see em transferred over to bismark lol. They probably don't know they can tank things effectively....

Also I guess I should mention, you can almost certainly do 9NM DNC setup without mpu gandring to begin with as long as the entire team is pulling their weight.

And I probably should have been trying to keep Drain III up more. I even took Schere out of my GS sets so I didn't have MP issues, but I wonder if the -enmity per swing would have helped with keeping things off me.

I had my weapon/sub locked because I didn't want to keep dropping AM every time I cast Drain/Dread/Absorb. Wouldn't get the best drain III's, but they might've made the difference.

There's just too many damn primes I want. I have Helheim S4, making dagger S3 next for Aminon HM, not sure if I'll S4 that or do the gun or scythe...

Stalwart Soul IV making SE only consume 5% makes it feel pretty safe to use these days imo. Especially if you're actually keeping your Drain III's up lol...

I was in full cowabunga last night so wasn't being diligent about keeping up the drains. Pets are definitely my go-to for them though, solid advice.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I came from Seraph/Bismarck, so...

even without the scythe, the MB D3 do great work at keeping you with an extra 2-3k HP to soak dmg, W3 or even much of W2 you can ride SD as they likely have some kind of AoE so that's basically free dmg

More of an overall commentary, it has happened so many *** times that I meet some one new to bismark from asura with good gear that says they were a great player on asura and watch them just fail spectacularly to keep up with my group. I stopped bothering to even give people from asura a chance after the 5th or 6th time, just assume most bought they're way through and have 0 idea who to do any actual content well. I am sure theirs some decent player son the server but they're the minority and its easier to just assume everyone's in the majority of mediocre to bad players lol

even at 5% i just dont often feel the dmg gained is worth the HP loss on hits, 10~15% sometimes 20% HP gone in a round for a small increase in white dmg. I wish it did more tbh but that's just me

Yeah I mean I get all that, but all the time spent doing that is time I'm not smashing my Fimbulvetr macro, like I could be doing on WAR without all the hassle.

I know I'm complaining for the sake of complaining, and you're right, that would save me at least a couple deaths, but it's so goddamn cumbersome compared to every other DD that doesn't require so much self-flogging just to stay alive.

I also gives 25 accuracy! lol..

yeah this is the exact reason I dropped blu as my main dd for ***, upkeep on some jobs is just tedious.

S'fair, i enjoy the extra bells and whistles but yeah other jobs can do what they need to with much less hassle, i just chimed in cause the drk cant take hits thing drives me up a wall, not to say you're saying that but just a peeve

Exactly, and I do enough of that ***playing RUN. I like that DRK has those tools available for if/when I need them, but it sucks that I still HAVE to rely on them for survival in dated content at ML 40+.

Also gives reduced enmity w/ Muted Soul for its entire duration. Something to think about especially since you were talking about Schere Earring earlier which does the same thing except it costs MP instead of HP. With enough merits Muted Soul is actually much stronger than Schere.

Worst part is *** with all those bells and whistles can very likely hurt your overall dps compared to dds who don't need it. when war and sam can just sit there and smash out ws and jas with next to 0 loss on tp time, it makes you wonder why you're playing a job that does roughly the same but requires twice the work. Its awesome when everything flows nicely and you can keep up AM3/Drain3 or what ever else little things your job needs to work but much like a drg with a dead wyvern if you're not doing it right you're gonna fall down to c tier dd really damned quick.

5/5 Desperate blows and 5/5 dark seal though... Wish we could just max merits at this stage